1936 Buff obv lathe marks?

Namvet69

While examining a group of Buffs, on one coin, I noticed these concentric lines in the obv field between the rim and hair. This effect is new to me but I want to learn so here they are for your input. Enjoy. Peace Roy

LanceNewmanOCC

that's what i'd call them but i'm no expert.

i recall only once someone disagreeing with concentric circles on coins like that as NOT coming from a "reduction" lathe but i wouldn't be surprised to learn there are other part(s), intricate parts, to the various processes that could also create concentric lathe lines.

personally, i've seen concentric circles on MANY us and foreign type coins/medals/tokens etc.

jayPem

Have you checked to see if they are Master Engraver marks?
🤔

clarkbar04

Lathe lines are a lot finer than that. Looks like die erosion to me. I have a raw buff around here somewhere with lathe lines visible.

Namvet69

@jayPem Can you explain what ME marks are and how I can check that? Thanks

jayPem

@Namvet69 said:
@jayPem Can you explain what ME marks are and how I can check that? Thanks

Oh shucks, I was just fooling around....
it's a lame reference to another thread that went off the rails.
I have no intention of derailing an actual real thread, my apologies!

LanceNewmanOCC

@Namvet69 said:
While examining a group of Buffs, on one coin, I noticed these concentric lines in the obv field between the rim and hair. This effect is new to me but I want to learn so here they are for your input. Enjoy. Peace Roy

.
just for curiosity sake, can you post a full image of the obv, when you get a chance. thanks

Namvet69

@LanceNewmanOCC For your examination sir.

LanceNewmanOCC

@Namvet69 said:
@LanceNewmanOCC For your examination sir.

.
hey, thanks.

thought i saw something but i am mistaken.

Namvet69

As you can see, these concentric lines begin at the left feather tip and one line grows to 3 lines at the top of his head at the rim ding.

clarkbar04

Lathe lines are also perfectly parallel, of which those aren't.

Namvet69

I just referenced lathe lines on various struck planchets and they're circular cause they're remnants from the creation of a die. Thanks for your input.

SlickCoins

To find out what Master Engraver marks your have to call "a coin shop", in Littleton Colorado and ask that expert.
I'm not an expert so I can't answer it either.
I'm the one to blame for his off topic insider joke/poke at me, sry for that.
Nice coin thanks for sharing
PS I didn't see any ME marks on your coin

crazyhounddog

After further review it appears it's not roller marks. Looks like metal was sucked up into some kind of void in the die as the marks are raised.

ricko

@Namvet69 ... In the pictures, the lines appear raised. Can you confirm that? Cheers, RickO

Namvet69

@ricko yes they are raised. Watcha thinkin?

ricko

@Namvet69... Raised lines like that would seem to have been on the hub, and may have become wider due to die erosion. Lots of metal movement around the rim. Cheers, RickO

lilolme

There seems to be many more of these out there with something going on in this area. I made no attempt to verify these are the same die. I picked out 4 with varying degrees of something going on. Blew up the pictures and attached. Seems like it should have something to do with die deterioration but not my thing.

.
.

.
.

.
.

Namvet69

I don't know about die deterioration, the triple lines on my coin are evenly spaced. Your lines are there but different, like polish lines, me thinks. Thanks for your contribution. Peace Roy

lilolme

Here is one blown up a little more. At about 1 o/c there are two lines that arch and go back toward 11 o/c and then around the feather the arcing line(s) continue. Between the arching lines is a checkered pattern. I doubt die polish would have these arching lines following along the rim. I am not saying this is the same as the OP, as I noted made no attempt to check the die is the same, but there are multiple examples out there. It could be the OP is entirely different but they are in the same area with some similarity.

.
.

lilolme

Might not help figure anything out but here are a couple more and a little closer to the OP. The lighting seems to usually have a shadow in the area unfortunately.

.

.

.

.

.

lilolme

I found a 1935 with similar marks but almost around the entire periphery.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Namvet69

@lilolme Nice find Detective Clouseau. I still think this is evidence that the obv die surface was turned and cut with a lathe blade. But that's just me. Thanks for finding this coin. Peace Roy

jesbroken

Sorry, just got here. Here are photos that Namvet69 was speaking of, easier to imagine without flipping back and forth.
Not familiar with the cause, so again, sorry.
Jim

Edited to add: For what it's worth the OP's are far more parallel than any others I've seen.

Namvet69

@jesbroken It's never too late to join the party. Watcha thinkin bout these here lines pardner?

jesbroken

For no reason should you heed what I say, as I do not know a lot about the complete coin manufacturing process nor the steps involved, but as someone who has a small shop, they look like machined lines to me. JMO

Jim

Namvet69

@jesbroken Your honest face has made me feel reassured.

dcarr

I think perhaps there were lathe marks on the die blanks BEFORE those dies were hubbed, and the lathe marks persisted after the hubbing. I have seen that sort of thing happen before.

LanceNewmanOCC

@dcarr said:
I think perhaps there were lathe marks on the die blanks BEFORE those dies were hubbed, and the lathe marks persisted after the hubbing. I have seen that sort of thing happen before.

.
this has usually been the consensus over the years here when these curled lines are discussed.

Namvet69

Thank you all for this discussion. The more I read confirms that they are remnants of hub die creation. @ricko you nailed it first and @dcarr knows from experience. I love this place. Peace Roy