How much is a 1796 no stars quarter eagle with damage worth?

rays

Heritage is selling a VF details, genuine example in a couple of weeks, certified by NCS (I guess it was too far gone for NGC or PCGS to touch it).
It has the following problems “attached “:
the most prominent being the crudely repaired plug at the top of the obverse. Apprentice-like tooling work is seen on Liberty's cap, the BER of LIBERTY, and the eagle's tail feathers. The surfaces are heavily polished as this coin was probably used as a jewelry piece at one time.

I just bid $8000 and was overbid. What’s the world coming to.

rays

This example sold for just under $10k just under 20 years ago.
The market is different today.

MasonG

How much of a difference is there between "just under $10k" and "something over $8k"?

rays

@MasonG said:
How much of a difference is there between "just under $10k" and "something over $8k"?

With the current 20% buyer’s fee, none.

asheland

That one is painful to look at!

MasonG

@rays said:

@MasonG said:
How much of a difference is there between "just under $10k" and "something over $8k"?

With the current 20% buyer’s fee, none.

Assuming the price holds at this level, it would appear the market for this coin isn't that much different than it was 20 years ago.

TheGoonies1985

Was there not one that just sold in May of 2022 at Heritage PCGS Authentic for almost 41 000$.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-quarter-eagles/quarter-eagles/1796-2-1-2-no-stars-on-obverse-bd-2-r4-repaired-pcgs-genuine-vf-details-pcgs-45501-/a/1344-3937.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

TheGoonies1985

Why bid so fast there is 22 days left why torture yourself just wait till the last 30 minutes and if you can still get in then bid. It is awful to to stress over if a bid will hold for that amount of time.

Not much you can buy for the same price or lower that sold 2 decades ago. Not really a good comparison at all.

rays

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
Was there not one that just sold in May of 2022 at Heritage PCGS Authentic for almost 41 000$.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-quarter-eagles/quarter-eagles/1796-2-1-2-no-stars-on-obverse-bd-2-r4-repaired-pcgs-genuine-vf-details-pcgs-45501-/a/1344-3937.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

That one was much nicer, only a small, inconspicuous rim repair.

TheGoonies1985

@rays said:

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
Was there not one that just sold in May of 2022 at Heritage PCGS Authentic for almost 41 000$.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-quarter-eagles/quarter-eagles/1796-2-1-2-no-stars-on-obverse-bd-2-r4-repaired-pcgs-genuine-vf-details-pcgs-45501-/a/1344-3937.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

That one was much nicer, only a small, inconspicuous rim repair.

But there can't be that much difference in price can there? I mean even say 20k to 25k would seem normal to me for the one you bid on.

rays

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
Why bid so fast there is 22 days left why torture yourself just wait till the last 30 minutes and if you can still get in then bid. It is awful to to stress over if a bid will hold for that amount of time.

Not much you can buy for the same price or lower that sold 2 decades ago. Not really a good comparison at all.

There are actually quite a few US coins/series that are worth less now than in, say, 2004. The 1796 no stars $2.50 is not one of them. I do remember when you could get a straight-graded VF for less than $20K in the late '90's.

291fifth

Ugh! That is a coin to pass on.

rays

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
Why bid so fast there is 22 days left why torture yourself just wait till the last 30 minutes and if you can still get in then bid. It is awful to to stress over if a bid will hold for that amount of time.

I want one of these, but not this particular example very much. It has way too many issues. If I could have it for $10K, I would buy it but any over that I'd rather wait for one with fewer problems. I also think this one will sell for $20-25K.

amwldcoin

@rays said:

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
Why bid so fast there is 22 days left why torture yourself just wait till the last 30 minutes and if you can still get in then bid. It is awful to to stress over if a bid will hold for that amount of time.

I want one of these, but not this particular example very much. It has way too many issues. If I could have it for $10K, I would buy it but any over that I'd rather wait for one with fewer problems. I also think this one will sell for $20-25K.

That’s what I was thinking it would bring also.

Elcontador

@rays said:

There are actually quite a few US coins/series that are worth less now than in, say, 2004. The 1796 no stars $2.50 is not one of them. I do remember when you could get a straight-graded VF for less than $20K in the late '90's.

Most material dating back to the mid 19th century is worth less now than it was in 2004, excepting coins which are genuinely scarce, and / or coveted by deep pockets registry set participants.

MFeld

@rays said:
Heritage is selling a VF details, genuine example in a couple of weeks, certified by NCS (I guess it was too far gone for NGC or PCGS to touch it).
It has the following problems “attached “:
the most prominent being the crudely repaired plug at the top of the obverse. Apprentice-like tooling work is seen on Liberty's cap, the BER of LIBERTY, and the eagle's tail feathers. The surfaces are heavily polished as this coin was probably used as a jewelry piece at one time.

I just bid $8000 and was overbid. What’s the world coming to.

I can’t speak for PCGS, but I don’t think the coin being in an NCS holder has anything to do with it being “too far gone for NGC to touch it”. NCS guarantees the authenticity as an affiliate of NGC.

MasonG

Does NCS even slab coins anymore? According to their website, after conservation the coins go to NGC for authentication/grading.

rays

@MFeld said:

@rays said:
Heritage is selling a VF details, genuine example in a couple of weeks, certified by NCS (I guess it was too far gone for NGC or PCGS to touch it).
It has the following problems “attached “:
the most prominent being the crudely repaired plug at the top of the obverse. Apprentice-like tooling work is seen on Liberty's cap, the BER of LIBERTY, and the eagle's tail feathers. The surfaces are heavily polished as this coin was probably used as a jewelry piece at one time.

I just bid $8000 and was overbid. What’s the world coming to.

I can’t speak for PCGS, but I don’t think the coin being in an NCS holder has anything to do with it being “too far gone for NGC to touch it”. NCS guarantees the authenticity as an affiliate of NGC.

My statements that (1) PCGS or NGC wouldn’t touch it, and (2) what’s the world coming to were meant in jest. I just found it so funny the cataloguer used the word “attached” to describe the coin’s problems.
However, I was interested in how the members here would rate/value a piece such as this. It is one of the most important type coins in the entire US series, yet it is so impaired. A conundrum.

MFeld

@rays said:

@MFeld said:

@rays said:
Heritage is selling a VF details, genuine example in a couple of weeks, certified by NCS (I guess it was too far gone for NGC or PCGS to touch it).
It has the following problems “attached “:
the most prominent being the crudely repaired plug at the top of the obverse. Apprentice-like tooling work is seen on Liberty's cap, the BER of LIBERTY, and the eagle's tail feathers. The surfaces are heavily polished as this coin was probably used as a jewelry piece at one time.

I just bid $8000 and was overbid. What’s the world coming to.

I can’t speak for PCGS, but I don’t think the coin being in an NCS holder has anything to do with it being “too far gone for NGC to touch it”. NCS guarantees the authenticity as an affiliate of NGC.

My statements that (1) PCGS or NGC wouldn’t touch it, and (2) what’s the world coming to were meant in jest. I just found it so funny the cataloguer used the word “attached” to describe the coin’s problems.
However, I was interested in how the members here would rate/value a piece such as this. It is one of the most important type coins in the entire US series, yet it is so impaired. A conundrum.

I didn’t take the part I quoted as being in jest, and thought readers could get the wrong idea, hence, my previous reply.

rays

@MFeld said:

@rays said:

@MFeld said:

@rays said:
Heritage is selling a VF details, genuine example in a couple of weeks, certified by NCS (I guess it was too far gone for NGC or PCGS to touch it).
It has the following problems “attached “:
the most prominent being the crudely repaired plug at the top of the obverse. Apprentice-like tooling work is seen on Liberty's cap, the BER of LIBERTY, and the eagle's tail feathers. The surfaces are heavily polished as this coin was probably used as a jewelry piece at one time.

I just bid $8000 and was overbid. What’s the world coming to.

I can’t speak for PCGS, but I don’t think the coin being in an NCS holder has anything to do with it being “too far gone for NGC to touch it”. NCS guarantees the authenticity as an affiliate of NGC.

My statements that (1) PCGS or NGC wouldn’t touch it, and (2) what’s the world coming to were meant in jest. I just found it so funny the cataloguer used the word “attached” to describe the coin’s problems.
However, I was interested in how the members here would rate/value a piece such as this. It is one of the most important type coins in the entire US series, yet it is so impaired. A conundrum.

I didn’t take the part I quoted as being in jest, and thought readers could get the wrong idea, hence, my previous reply.

Thank you for your previous reply and I apologize for my post being unclear.

Omegaraptor

It's one of what, 80 known for these? Probably the bottom pop piece right there but there's going to be a lot of interest in it nontheless.

MrEureka

I don’t know if there’s enough left of the coin to be sure it’s real, but I’d bet it will be impossible to authenticate it in 30 years. Regardless, it’s worth a lot more than 10k today,

streeter

I can't seem to appreciate the coin.
I wonder how long the seller has been waiting for a strong market to sell that coin.

rays

@streeter said:
I can't seem to appreciate the coin.
I wonder how long the seller has been waiting for a strong market to sell that coin.

I don’t know, but according to the PCGS price guide, the trajectory has been up for many years:

MFeld

@streeter said:
I can't seem to appreciate the coin.
I wonder how long the seller has been waiting for a strong market to sell that coin.

Plenty of sellers sell for reasons other than a strong market.

The_Dinosaur_Man

That's got to be one of the most beat-up gold coins I've ever seen. Funny to think that we might see copper, silver, or other metal coins come and go like that all the time, but never gold. That coin has done its job.

TheGoonies1985

Closing in less than 48 hours hope you are able to add this rarity to your collection. I truly doubt such a rarity no matter the grade will get any cheaper over time.

TheGoonies1985

So far at 16 200$ with the juice. My guess still stands at 20k to 25k will find out soon enough.

rays

@MrEureka said:
I don’t know if there’s enough left of the coin to be sure it’s real, but I’d bet it will be impossible to authenticate it in 30 years. Regardless, it’s worth a lot more than 10k today,

Why do you think this coin would be more difficult to authenticate in 30 years than to do so today?

BillJones

The bid is now up to $13,500 which is $16,200 with the buyers’s fee. That is hardly what I would call a “budget collector” amount. I have seen a number a number of problem pieces in recent years bringing high prices like this. In the past, these coins sold for a small fraction of the amount for straight graded pieces. I have even seen them included in “platinum sale” sections of auctions.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think that NGC issues NCS holders any more. I think that they are NGC holders with “details grades.”

TheGoonies1985

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
So far at 16 200$ with the juice. My guess still stands at 20k to 25k will find out soon enough.

Will find out soon enough within the next few hours. I am watching this whole auction live online some real nice coins and hopefully it will be a great auction.

TheGoonies1985

Rays:

If you can buy it I suggest you do because owning such a rare coin gives you a great felling and some great memories over time. But I don't know your budget so I understand if it is simply to much money.

TheGoonies1985

Sold for 16 400$ hope you landed it?

rays

The price it brought wasn't too bad, but this one is so impaired I would rather pay twice as much for a better example.

TheGoonies1985

@rays said:
The price it brought wasn't too bad, but this one is so impaired I would rather pay twice as much for a better example.

If you can afford a nicer one then yes that is always the best option just thought maybe this was your only chance to add this coin to your collection. That is why I was rooting for you. But always buy the best you can afford.

TwoSides2aCoin

Looks like someone paid twice as much as your max bid for an ( any) example (specimen) ; which makes me wonder if you could get a problem free specimen for twice as much (in today's market). It appears "double" is still far shy of reality.

rays

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Looks like someone paid twice as much as your max bid for an ( any) example (specimen) ; which makes me wonder if you could get a problem free specimen for twice as much (in today's market). It appears "double" is still far shy of reality.

I meant twice as much as it realized. Even then, it would be in a details holder like this one, I was close to winning:

conrad99

Given that the buyer is the only party to the transaction who's actually writing a check, what's the rationale for substantial buyer's premiums in addition to seller fees? Is it just a marketing ploy to spread the apparent pain?

The whole business seems mighty lucrative to me.

MrEureka

@rays said:

@MrEureka said:
I don’t know if there’s enough left of the coin to be sure it’s real, but I’d bet it will be impossible to authenticate it in 30 years. Regardless, it’s worth a lot more than 10k today,

Why do you think this coin would be more difficult to authenticate in 30 years than to do so today?

I should clarify. I should have said that "coins like this" will be much more difficult to authenticate in 30 years, because counterfeiters keep getting better. So things about coins which today we think counterfeiters would never have gotten right may no longer be enough to convince us that a coin is real. (For example, the edge of the coin and/or trace elements in the alloy.)