Once again the gasket looks a bit wonky on the eBay listing. Anxious to hear what the coin the OP purchased looks like once he has it in hand and whether it even matches the eBay photos. Note the little circles in the eBay sellers photos about midpoint on the vertical seams of the slab in the sellers photos. These do not appear on the other Great Collection or US Coins and Jewelry slabs. Does anyone have a genuine PCGS slab with these circles? Also would like to see good photos of all sides of the holder. Definitely seems to be something nefarious going on here.
@Dave99B said:
Twenty some years ago I remember talking to a dealer in Seattle about scammers swapping U.S. gold coins around in holders ... swapping in lower grade coins into MS65 and MS66 PCGS holders. Not sure how they did this, but he said they were very good at it. Maybe the rattler holders were easier to mess with? In any event a scary situation, especially with higher end coins. I personally examine holders closely before purchasing graded coins.
Dave
My bet is they were NGC holders. Sometimes they are very easy to separate.
I hope that everyone that has read this thread is concerned, it's a really a scary thread to be honest.
I believe that until the TPG services start to take some action and start prosecuting this counterfeiters' this will continue.
As far as Ebay, they too have to do something about there sellers. I don't have all the answers but I'm hoping some of you here can help with the issues and come up with some ideas to help resolve this.
If you can't buy a coin online weather from a dealer, Ebay, or an auction house and not be 100% sure that the coin, holder, and sticker are real there is a HUGE PROBLEM.
Lets use this thread, or start another one to address these problems and concerns about counterfeits'. I know there are a lot of great minds on this forum that can contribute there ideas and I hope our host looks at this and makes some changes to resolve these issues, their name and reputation is being jeopardized.
@alaura22 said:
I hope that everyone that has read this thread is concerned, it's a really a scary thread to be honest.
I believe that until the TPG services start to take some action and start prosecuting this counterfeiters' this will continue.
As far as Ebay, they too have to do something about there sellers. I don't have all the answers but I'm hoping some of you here can help with the issues and come up with some ideas to help resolve this.
If you can't buy a coin online weather from a dealer, Ebay, or an auction house and not be 100% sure that the coin, holder, and sticker are real there is a HUGE PROBLEM.
Lets use this thread, or start another one to address these problems and concerns about counterfeits'. I know there are a lot of great minds on this forum that can contribute there ideas and I hope our host looks at this and makes some changes to resolve these issues, their name and reputation is being jeopardized.
The TPGs' main injury is in regard to copyright infringement for the fake slabs and labels.
Law enforcement/attorneys general would be the types of people to bring criminal charges.
Buyers of these fakes can also sue the sellers in civil court.
Ebay has rolled out something called "Vault" which I think helps in confirming authenticity of sports cards. I am not sure if it can/will be used for coins, but if it is, expect higher prices.
Keep in mind the only way i found out about this is by luck because i had just by chance found the picture of the original slab and label, other buyers will not have the same luck.
The best defense a coin collector can have against a fake slab and coin like this is to know how to grade and authenticate the series that they collect. Of course, a lot of study and experience will necessarily be involved.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Well Colt has not done anything to this seller selling all the Colt boxes and stuff and all his stuff has Colt's copyright logo and its been over 10 years that he has been selling fake stuff. This seller even sells fake barcode Colt labels and says if you send him your gun information for an extra fee he will put that on label too.
Where this hurts PCGS is there reputation depends on grading standards and those standards can go down by people switching coins and making fake labels and of course it hurts the person buying the coin and the overall coin collecting.
Was done with cards years ago. WWAG scam. Easy enough to google.
Apparently someone stole pallets of unused flips off trucks or a warehouse. Same deal. Use the flip with a lesser card. Resubmit over and over.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@alaura22 said:
I hope that everyone that has read this thread is concerned, it's a really a scary thread to be honest.
I believe that until the TPG services start to take some action and start prosecuting this counterfeiters' this will continue.
As far as Ebay, they too have to do something about there sellers. I don't have all the answers but I'm hoping some of you here can help with the issues and come up with some ideas to help resolve this.
If you can't buy a coin online weather from a dealer, Ebay, or an auction house and not be 100% sure that the coin, holder, and sticker are real there is a HUGE PROBLEM.
Lets use this thread, or start another one to address these problems and concerns about counterfeits'. I know there are a lot of great minds on this forum that can contribute there ideas and I hope our host looks at this and makes some changes to resolve these issues, their name and reputation is being jeopardized.
The TPGs don't prosecute criminals. TPGs' main injury is in regard to copyright infringement for the fake slabs and labels.
@CoinAddiction said:
Well Colt has not done anything to this seller selling all the Colt boxes and stuff and all his stuff has Colt's copyright logo and its been over 10 years that he has been selling fake stuff. This seller even sells fake barcode Colt labels and says if you send him your gun information for an extra fee he will put that on label too.
Last I heard Colt was not in the best financial condition and they presumably don't think it's cost effective to spends 100s of thousands of dollars to chase this guy.
Most all major brands are counterfeited, and most do not actively pursue legal action, unless perhaps it is a large organized ring that is responsible.
If one or even a few guys are selling fake stuff for older Colts, how does that impact Colt's bottom line? Colt presumably isn't selling real versions of that stuff.
Why don't you take this guy to court?
Don't get me wrong - I hate all these fraudsters. But actually putting them out of business is a lot harder than it sounds. That's why they do what they do.
@MarkInDavis, here's a genuine PCGS slab with those circles. I haven't looked at all of my PCGS slabs but all of those that I have looked at have the circles.
@alaura22 said:
I hope that everyone that has read this thread is concerned, it's a really a scary thread to be honest.
I believe that until the TPG services start to take some action and start prosecuting this counterfeiters' this will continue.
As far as Ebay, they too have to do something about there sellers. I don't have all the answers but I'm hoping some of you here can help with the issues and come up with some ideas to help resolve this.
If you can't buy a coin online weather from a dealer, Ebay, or an auction house and not be 100% sure that the coin, holder, and sticker are real there is a HUGE PROBLEM.
Lets use this thread, or start another one to address these problems and concerns about counterfeits'. I know there are a lot of great minds on this forum that can contribute there ideas and I hope our host looks at this and makes some changes to resolve these issues, their name and reputation is being jeopardized.
The TPGs don't prosecute criminals. TPGs' main injury is in regard to copyright infringement for the fake slabs and labels.
Maybe they should!
If you've ever been ripped off by any of these people, did you sue them? You have every right to do that but I suspect the legal costs would be prohibitive.
@alaura22 said:
I hope that everyone that has read this thread is concerned, it's a really a scary thread to be honest.
I believe that until the TPG services start to take some action and start prosecuting this counterfeiters' this will continue.
As far as Ebay, they too have to do something about there sellers. I don't have all the answers but I'm hoping some of you here can help with the issues and come up with some ideas to help resolve this.
If you can't buy a coin online weather from a dealer, Ebay, or an auction house and not be 100% sure that the coin, holder, and sticker are real there is a HUGE PROBLEM.
Lets use this thread, or start another one to address these problems and concerns about counterfeits'. I know there are a lot of great minds on this forum that can contribute there ideas and I hope our host looks at this and makes some changes to resolve these issues, their name and reputation is being jeopardized.
The TPGs don't prosecute criminals. TPGs' main injury is in regard to copyright infringement for the fake slabs and labels.
Maybe they should!
I think you're still missing the point. PCGS does not have the authority to arrest people or put them on trial. And if they can somehow get one guy put out of business does that end the problem?
If you've ever been ripped off by any of these people, did you sue them? You have every right to do that but I suspect the legal costs would be prohibitive.
I'm not missing the point, I get it BUT
Something has to be done, what you are saying is because it is not cost effective "just let them go"
I'm just venting because I love this hobby and can't stand to see these crooks ruin it
@alaura22 said:
I hope that everyone that has read this thread is concerned, it's a really a scary thread to be honest.
I believe that until the TPG services start to take some action and start prosecuting this counterfeiters' this will continue.
As far as Ebay, they too have to do something about there sellers. I don't have all the answers but I'm hoping some of you here can help with the issues and come up with some ideas to help resolve this.
If you can't buy a coin online weather from a dealer, Ebay, or an auction house and not be 100% sure that the coin, holder, and sticker are real there is a HUGE PROBLEM.
Lets use this thread, or start another one to address these problems and concerns about counterfeits'. I know there are a lot of great minds on this forum that can contribute there ideas and I hope our host looks at this and makes some changes to resolve these issues, their name and reputation is being jeopardized.
The TPGs don't prosecute criminals. TPGs' main injury is in regard to copyright infringement for the fake slabs and labels.
Maybe they should!
I think you're still missing the point. PCGS does not have the authority to arrest people or put them on trial. And if they can somehow get one guy put out of business does that end the problem?
If you've ever been ripped off by any of these people, did you sue them? You have every right to do that but I suspect the legal costs would be prohibitive.
I would hope that the younger crowd would be more incline to peruse this as it will affect them more than me down the road. My better days have come and gone.
Check on both suspicious slabs and the area between the inserts and the plastic. See that row of opaque plastic? That is weird. It's not on the genuine slabs- just the two fake ones.
@alaura22 said:
I would hope that the younger crowd would be more incline to peruse this as it will affect them more than me down the road. My better days have come and gone.
Your right, we get these new collectors start collecting and they have no clue and eventually this thread will be buried and its not like all collectors become a member of a coin collecting forum either.
I can spot fake Colt boxes and labels just by looking at pictures but that is years of knowledge and i never thought scammers were doing PCGS holders or labels until now.
Not necessarily. The OP mentioned more than one eBay account for the seller. In part, he wrote:
“I also did find out some more evidence, this scammer has at least three ebay accounts and all the accounts only have 3 to 6 feedbacks, all the coins are very high grade morgans or rare high priced morgans, all the pictures have the same lighting, all the pictures use the same back ground they just change the back ground colors, and they are all located in same state.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@rhedden said:
If the scammer is re-submitting the real coins to PCGS, it seems that PCGS should be able to track them down. Sure, they are probably submitting the real coins through a dealer - but then the dealer can help track them down.
@rhedden said:
If the scammer is re-submitting the real coins to PCGS, it seems that PCGS should be able to track them down. Sure, they are probably submitting the real coins through a dealer - but then the dealer can help track them down.
@alaura22 said:
I hope that everyone that has read this thread is concerned, it's a really a scary thread to be honest.
I believe that until the TPG services start to take some action and start prosecuting this counterfeiters' this will continue.
As far as Ebay, they too have to do something about there sellers. I don't have all the answers but I'm hoping some of you here can help with the issues and come up with some ideas to help resolve this.
If you can't buy a coin online weather from a dealer, Ebay, or an auction house and not be 100% sure that the coin, holder, and sticker are real there is a HUGE PROBLEM.
Lets use this thread, or start another one to address these problems and concerns about counterfeits'. I know there are a lot of great minds on this forum that can contribute there ideas and I hope our host looks at this and makes some changes to resolve these issues, their name and reputation is being jeopardized.
The TPGs don't prosecute criminals. TPGs' main injury is in regard to copyright infringement for the fake slabs and labels.
Not necessarily. The OP mentioned more than one eBay account for the seller. In part, he wrote:
“I also did find out some more evidence, this scammer has at least three ebay accounts and all the accounts only have 3 to 6 feedbacks, all the coins are very high grade morgans or rare high priced morgans, all the pictures have the same lighting, all the pictures use the same back ground they just change the back ground colors, and they are all located in same state.”
@retirednow said:
Gee ... Tweeter and Facebook seem to be able to ban people and companies for life .. why is eBay not able to do the same?
It's all about the money!
It's not that easy. The only people Twitter or Facebook have ever successfully banned are famous people (Trump) using their real name. Trump himself could have 1000 alts as long as he doesn't want to be "The Real Donald Trump".
Change email addresses, PayPal accounts, even IP address and Twitter and eBay can't easily know it's you.
I don't know about PCGS but I have a genuine NGC slab that can be open and shut easily. The way it came about was this - I gave the coin to Messydesk with permission to crack it for photography. It was a freak thing, he hit the slab just the right way with his magic tool to make this happen. I wouldn't believe it myself but Messydesk can confirm. And the slab is still in my collection. I'm careful opening it because at some point the holder might fail. It does have a few crack marks inside the plastic, but it snaps shut and you would never notice unless someone told you. I've shown it to a few people and asked them to tell me what was wrong with the slab. No one has ever figured it out.
@Coinosaurus said:
I don't know about PCGS but I have a genuine NGC slab that can be open and shut easily. The way it came about was this - I gave the coin to Messydesk with permission to crack it for photography. It was a freak thing, he hit the slab just the right way with his magic tool to make this happen. I wouldn't believe it myself but Messydesk can confirm. And the slab is still in my collection. I'm careful opening it because at some point the holder might fail. It does have a few crack marks inside the plastic, but it snaps shut and you would never notice unless someone told you. I've shown it to a few people and asked them to tell me what was wrong with the slab. No one has ever figured it out.
I always assumed the raw holder halves just snap together and then the sonic sealing/welding melts the two together along the seam. Maybe yours wasn't zapped long enough.
Here's the ebay accounts that are all of the same person or person's to stay clear from because they are all affiliated with each other. I would write these screen names down so you never bid and get scammed.
Where are you going to buy them because all the other coin auctions don't check into anything they just sell the coin? Remember the QR code scans and the barcode scans but i'm sure none of the coin auctions are going to scan every slab. You could go to coin shows or coin dealers but it would probably take you 3 times as long to complete lets say a Morgan dollar set. Honestly without buying certified coins on the internet i probably would have given up on completing sets.
I would suggest that you only buy from a trusted dealer and a trusted auction house.
I'm sure that both of them would know if the coin or holder is fake.
Mark could chime in and let us know how Heritage handles this.
I don't like buying coins on ebay unless it's from a dealer that I have done business with in the past and I trust. And, I would only buy lower prices coins from others I do not know and they have a return policy.
That's just me, CYA because you are otherwise on your own.
I'm not sure what steps PCGS has taken over the years to make their holders more tamper proof but I do know that PSA, the card side of CU, has significantly redesigned its holder to combat counterfeiting which had become a real problem with sports cards. Unfortunately, with higher end collectibles, the greater the payoff, the more sophisticated the fraud schemes.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@alaura22 said:
I would suggest that you only buy from a trusted dealer and a trusted auction house.
The ebay equivalent is to use the feedback count as an indicator of trust/reliability.
When feedback is under 10 or under 20, look very carefully at what is being sold.
If feedback is above 100, you are probably fine.
Yes, a seller with higher feedback might still sell a coin in a fake slab if they did not realize it is fake,
but this should be a rare event.
On the other hand, the sellers who only sell fakes will probably not reach a feedback of 10.
@alaura22 said:
I would suggest that you only buy from a trusted dealer and a trusted auction house.
I'm sure that both of them would know if the coin or holder is fake.
Mark could chime in and let us know how Heritage handles this.
I don't like buying coins on ebay unless it's from a dealer that I have done business with in the past and I trust. And, I would only buy lower prices coins from others I do not know and they have a return policy.
That's just me, CYA because you are otherwise on your own.
We receive a lot of emails with pictures of ungraded counterfeit coins, that people want to consign. And to a lesser extent, we receive them with pictures of counterfeit coins in counterfeit holders. In those instances, I tell the person that the coin is (or appears to be) a counterfeit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@alaura22 said:
My simple solution to this problem
Stop buying coins on ebay.
Because these never make it into show inventories...
What you need is a knowledgeable , trusted dealer, wherever you find them
It's not eBay, it's the individual seller, that counts. There are many excellent, trustworthy sellers on eBay. There are also many bad sellers at shows and on line, outside of eBay. In order to avoid trouble, you need to know coins really well and/or work with knowledgeable, trustworthy sellers. There are plenty of them out there.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@rhedden said:
If the scammer is re-submitting the real coins to PCGS, it seems that PCGS should be able to track them down. Sure, they are probably submitting the real coins through a dealer - but then the dealer can help track them down.
It's not an 1804 dollar.
Maybe not - but PCGS can cancel their membership if they submit directly, or inform the dealer who is doing their submissions in that case. A step in the right direction is better than doing nothing.
That 1901 dollar is a fantastic example of a fake PCGS coin that could harm the average collector who is into Morgans. It doesn't have to be an 1804 dollar to pose a threat to the collecting community.
If what the PCGS employee on the phone said is true, I would think some form of official statement is warranted to address the issue. Perhaps the rep was misinformed but we, the customers, deserve to know if there is a secret method of opening a slab without it being detected.
@rhedden said:
If the scammer is re-submitting the real coins to PCGS, it seems that PCGS should be able to track them down. Sure, they are probably submitting the real coins through a dealer - but then the dealer can help track them down.
It's not an 1804 dollar.
Maybe not - but PCGS can cancel their membership if they submit directly, or inform the dealer who is doing their submissions in that case. A step in the right direction is better than doing nothing.
Did you read the thread? The labels have been shown to be fakes. There was no proof - just early speculation - that the scammer is submitting anything to PCGS.
@rhedden said:
If the scammer is re-submitting the real coins to PCGS, it seems that PCGS should be able to track them down. Sure, they are probably submitting the real coins through a dealer - but then the dealer can help track them down.
It's not an 1804 dollar.
Maybe not - but PCGS can cancel their membership if they submit directly, or inform the dealer who is doing their submissions in that case. A step in the right direction is better than doing nothing.
Did you read the thread? The labels have been shown to be fakes. There was no proof - just early speculation - that the scammer is submitting anything to PCGS.
Sorry JBK, but I was referring to the real coins that have been cracked out. Has anyone tracked them down in a new holder with fake labels? As far as I understand, the fake labels belong to the fake coins - or did I miss something?
@rhedden said:
If the scammer is re-submitting the real coins to PCGS, it seems that PCGS should be able to track them down. Sure, they are probably submitting the real coins through a dealer - but then the dealer can help track them down.
It's not an 1804 dollar.
Maybe not - but PCGS can cancel their membership if they submit directly, or inform the dealer who is doing their submissions in that case. A step in the right direction is better than doing nothing.
Did you read the thread? The labels have been shown to be fakes. There was no proof - just early speculation - that the scammer is submitting anything to PCGS.
Sorry JBK, but I was referring to the real coins that have been cracked out. Has anyone tracked them down in a new holder with fake labels? As far as I understand, the fake labels belong to the fake coins - or did I miss something?
If a seller has counterfeit holders and labels, he doesn't have to submit any coins for grading. He can simply buy coins in or our of holders and insert them into his counterfeit holders.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
True - but do we have evidence any of the original coins in counterfeit or real holders? We'd need to locate one of the real coins to figure out what he/she is doing with them.
@rhedden said:
True - but do we have evidence any of the original coins in counterfeit or real holders? We'd need to locate one of the real coins to figure out what he/she is doing with them.
Sorry, I don't know. But it is clear that he's selling coins in counterfeit holders with counterfeit labels. And if he is submitting coins for grading, in order for a grading company to have any opportunity to do something about it, they would need to know his identity or be in touch with someone who does.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
Once again the gasket looks a bit wonky on the eBay listing. Anxious to hear what the coin the OP purchased looks like once he has it in hand and whether it even matches the eBay photos. Note the little circles in the eBay sellers photos about midpoint on the vertical seams of the slab in the sellers photos. These do not appear on the other Great Collection or US Coins and Jewelry slabs. Does anyone have a genuine PCGS slab with these circles? Also would like to see good photos of all sides of the holder. Definitely seems to be something nefarious going on here.
My bet is they were NGC holders. Sometimes they are very easy to separate.
I hope that everyone that has read this thread is concerned, it's a really a scary thread to be honest.
I believe that until the TPG services start to take some action and start prosecuting this counterfeiters' this will continue.
As far as Ebay, they too have to do something about there sellers. I don't have all the answers but I'm hoping some of you here can help with the issues and come up with some ideas to help resolve this.
If you can't buy a coin online weather from a dealer, Ebay, or an auction house and not be 100% sure that the coin, holder, and sticker are real there is a HUGE PROBLEM.
Lets use this thread, or start another one to address these problems and concerns about counterfeits'. I know there are a lot of great minds on this forum that can contribute there ideas and I hope our host looks at this and makes some changes to resolve these issues, their name and reputation is being jeopardized.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Y'all, have started to persuade me that the label may be fake. I'm going to do some comparisons when i get the coin.
The TPGs' main injury is in regard to copyright infringement for the fake slabs and labels.
Law enforcement/attorneys general would be the types of people to bring criminal charges.
Buyers of these fakes can also sue the sellers in civil court.
Ebay has rolled out something called "Vault" which I think helps in confirming authenticity of sports cards. I am not sure if it can/will be used for coins, but if it is, expect higher prices.
Keep in mind the only way i found out about this is by luck because i had just by chance found the picture of the original slab and label, other buyers will not have the same luck.
The best defense a coin collector can have against a fake slab and coin like this is to know how to grade and authenticate the series that they collect. Of course, a lot of study and experience will necessarily be involved.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Well Colt has not done anything to this seller selling all the Colt boxes and stuff and all his stuff has Colt's copyright logo and its been over 10 years that he has been selling fake stuff. This seller even sells fake barcode Colt labels and says if you send him your gun information for an extra fee he will put that on label too.
Where this hurts PCGS is there reputation depends on grading standards and those standards can go down by people switching coins and making fake labels and of course it hurts the person buying the coin and the overall coin collecting.
Was done with cards years ago. WWAG scam. Easy enough to google.
Apparently someone stole pallets of unused flips off trucks or a warehouse. Same deal. Use the flip with a lesser card. Resubmit over and over.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Maybe they should!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Last I heard Colt was not in the best financial condition and they presumably don't think it's cost effective to spends 100s of thousands of dollars to chase this guy.
Most all major brands are counterfeited, and most do not actively pursue legal action, unless perhaps it is a large organized ring that is responsible.
If one or even a few guys are selling fake stuff for older Colts, how does that impact Colt's bottom line? Colt presumably isn't selling real versions of that stuff.
Why don't you take this guy to court?
Don't get me wrong - I hate all these fraudsters. But actually putting them out of business is a lot harder than it sounds. That's why they do what they do.
@MarkInDavis, here's a genuine PCGS slab with those circles. I haven't looked at all of my PCGS slabs but all of those that I have looked at have the circles.
Coin Photographer.
If you've ever been ripped off by any of these people, did you sue them? You have every right to do that but I suspect the legal costs would be prohibitive.
I'm not missing the point, I get it BUT
Something has to be done, what you are saying is because it is not cost effective "just let them go"
I'm just venting because I love this hobby and can't stand to see these crooks ruin it
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
A classic rallying cry....
Bur who is going to do it?
(Hint, hint, why not you?).
I would hope that the younger crowd would be more incline to peruse this as it will affect them more than me down the road. My better days have come and gone.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Check on both suspicious slabs and the area between the inserts and the plastic. See that row of opaque plastic? That is weird. It's not on the genuine slabs- just the two fake ones.
peacockcoins
Your right, we get these new collectors start collecting and they have no clue and eventually this thread will be buried and its not like all collectors become a member of a coin collecting forum either.
I can spot fake Colt boxes and labels just by looking at pictures but that is years of knowledge and i never thought scammers were doing PCGS holders or labels until now.
Great thread..... thanks for posting!
Scary stuff. On the one Mark posted, the 1901, the numbers look correctly lined up over the barcode.
Gee ... Tweeter and Facebook seem to be able to ban people and companies for life .. why is eBay not able to do the same?
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
I wake up with a Good Attitude Every Day. Then … Idiots Happen!
It's all about the money!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Different seller than the OP's...
Not necessarily. The OP mentioned more than one eBay account for the seller. In part, he wrote:
“I also did find out some more evidence, this scammer has at least three ebay accounts and all the accounts only have 3 to 6 feedbacks, all the coins are very high grade morgans or rare high priced morgans, all the pictures have the same lighting, all the pictures use the same back ground they just change the back ground colors, and they are all located in same state.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It's not an 1804 dollar.
I’m not at all sure that’s correct. The OP mentioned more than one eBay account for the seller.
It's not an 1804 dollar. > @alaura22 said:
Businesses don't prosecute. Prosecutors prosecute.
Nice edit...
It's not that easy. The only people Twitter or Facebook have ever successfully banned are famous people (Trump) using their real name. Trump himself could have 1000 alts as long as he doesn't want to be "The Real Donald Trump".
Change email addresses, PayPal accounts, even IP address and Twitter and eBay can't easily know it's you.
I don't know about PCGS but I have a genuine NGC slab that can be open and shut easily. The way it came about was this - I gave the coin to Messydesk with permission to crack it for photography. It was a freak thing, he hit the slab just the right way with his magic tool to make this happen. I wouldn't believe it myself but Messydesk can confirm. And the slab is still in my collection. I'm careful opening it because at some point the holder might fail. It does have a few crack marks inside the plastic, but it snaps shut and you would never notice unless someone told you. I've shown it to a few people and asked them to tell me what was wrong with the slab. No one has ever figured it out.
I always assumed the raw holder halves just snap together and then the sonic sealing/welding melts the two together along the seam. Maybe yours wasn't zapped long enough.
Here's the ebay accounts that are all of the same person or person's to stay clear from because they are all affiliated with each other. I would write these screen names down so you never bid and get scammed.
https://ebay.com/itm/155029775167?nma=true&si=TN0PWkdn4s0QLHNGeLCHPnmNnqg%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
https://ebay.com/itm/394039767534?hash=item5bbe99b1ee%3Ag%3AzvQAAOSwGFliYMvb&nma=true&si=TN0PWkdn4s0QLHNGeLCHPnmNnqg%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
https://ebay.com/itm/403718635801?hash=item5dff818119:g:Ez8AAOSw2qFiqWkT
In this link it's the very first listing that just sold yesterday with screen name jessefe-54 but it looks like ebay closed the account. So maybe the scammers got found out but that 1901 P MS61 just sold and then they listed another one under another account.
https://ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=pcgs+1901+morgan+ms61&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
My simple solution to this problem
Stop buying coins on ebay.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Where are you going to buy them because all the other coin auctions don't check into anything they just sell the coin? Remember the QR code scans and the barcode scans but i'm sure none of the coin auctions are going to scan every slab. You could go to coin shows or coin dealers but it would probably take you 3 times as long to complete lets say a Morgan dollar set. Honestly without buying certified coins on the internet i probably would have given up on completing sets.
I would suggest that you only buy from a trusted dealer and a trusted auction house.
I'm sure that both of them would know if the coin or holder is fake.
Mark could chime in and let us know how Heritage handles this.
I don't like buying coins on ebay unless it's from a dealer that I have done business with in the past and I trust. And, I would only buy lower prices coins from others I do not know and they have a return policy.
That's just me, CYA because you are otherwise on your own.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I'm not sure what steps PCGS has taken over the years to make their holders more tamper proof but I do know that PSA, the card side of CU, has significantly redesigned its holder to combat counterfeiting which had become a real problem with sports cards. Unfortunately, with higher end collectibles, the greater the payoff, the more sophisticated the fraud schemes.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The ebay equivalent is to use the feedback count as an indicator of trust/reliability.
When feedback is under 10 or under 20, look very carefully at what is being sold.
If feedback is above 100, you are probably fine.
Yes, a seller with higher feedback might still sell a coin in a fake slab if they did not realize it is fake,
but this should be a rare event.
On the other hand, the sellers who only sell fakes will probably not reach a feedback of 10.
We receive a lot of emails with pictures of ungraded counterfeit coins, that people want to consign. And to a lesser extent, we receive them with pictures of counterfeit coins in counterfeit holders. In those instances, I tell the person that the coin is (or appears to be) a counterfeit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Because these never make it into show inventories...
What you need is a knowledgeable , trusted dealer, wherever you find them
It's not eBay, it's the individual seller, that counts. There are many excellent, trustworthy sellers on eBay. There are also many bad sellers at shows and on line, outside of eBay. In order to avoid trouble, you need to know coins really well and/or work with knowledgeable, trustworthy sellers. There are plenty of them out there.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
we need to set a trap and ambush him at his house
Maybe not - but PCGS can cancel their membership if they submit directly, or inform the dealer who is doing their submissions in that case. A step in the right direction is better than doing nothing.
Side by side image of this one:
That 1901 dollar is a fantastic example of a fake PCGS coin that could harm the average collector who is into Morgans. It doesn't have to be an 1804 dollar to pose a threat to the collecting community.
If what the PCGS employee on the phone said is true, I would think some form of official statement is warranted to address the issue. Perhaps the rep was misinformed but we, the customers, deserve to know if there is a secret method of opening a slab without it being detected.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Did you read the thread? The labels have been shown to be fakes. There was no proof - just early speculation - that the scammer is submitting anything to PCGS.
Sorry JBK, but I was referring to the real coins that have been cracked out. Has anyone tracked them down in a new holder with fake labels? As far as I understand, the fake labels belong to the fake coins - or did I miss something?
If a seller has counterfeit holders and labels, he doesn't have to submit any coins for grading. He can simply buy coins in or our of holders and insert them into his counterfeit holders.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
True - but do we have evidence any of the original coins in counterfeit or real holders? We'd need to locate one of the real coins to figure out what he/she is doing with them.
Sorry, I don't know. But it is clear that he's selling coins in counterfeit holders with counterfeit labels. And if he is submitting coins for grading, in order for a grading company to have any opportunity to do something about it, they would need to know his identity or be in touch with someone who does.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.