1917 lincoln cent - Next submission *Update True view*

ColdSummer310

Hello, first I would I want to thank you for clicking on the thread. I apologize before hand on "if there is a thread for this" I need your guys help.

photos below next post!!
My question is do you believe this item is 1917 (91) Questionable Color Unc details? I've compared it to many like it (QC) & doesn't see correct. I have toned coins/ dipped coins & its upsetting when you send in your coin and they can't decide if it "legit".
Finally, if you do agree with me about questionable color 91 being in correct how should I procced. Just transfer my business to NGC or get regraded.

Thank you

davewesen

Here is a link to the cert, so in another month when the TruView shows up we can see what they saw.

https://pcgs.com/cert/45107226

BryceM

First, welcome. I'm not a copper specialist, but I'll give you my take on it.

Color on copper is a little hard to pick up in photos. Obviously you have the coin in-hand and can see things we can't. If you're open-minded about it, you must admit that the most likely explanation is that three experienced, professional graders looked at the coin and made the correct call. Some coins are "on the fence" and you might have better luck on another day, but you should strongly consider the possibility that the coin really has been messed with or has a look that the graders just don't like. If so, you're likely to get the same opinion from NGC or any other quality grading service.

Apart from the color issue, this issue isn't really valuable enough to justify slabbing until you get in the range of MS64RD. Again, it's difficult to grade from photos, but it looks like there is enough stuff going on in the fields that it wouldn't be likely to grade higher. If you consider all of your options, you might be better off just buying one you like already in a PCGS MS64RD holder. Grading fees can get expensive, especially if you consider two or three (possibly ultimately unsuccessful) tries, postage, insurance, submission fees, and such.

I'm very happy to be wrong, but those of us who have paid plenty in grading fees would only try this coin again if you had a concrete, substantiated, informed reason to try it again.

jughead1893

The color doesn’t really say”100 year old copper coin” to me.How long have you owned it ? Welcome to the forum!

Stingray63

I agree with @AUandAG. I wouldn't leave. If one submits enough coins they will get both ends of stick from time to time regardless of the TPG used.

crazyhounddog

@ColdSummer310 said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
already posted

I apologize brother. Won't happen again. Still learning.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a double post and you sure as hell don’t need to apologize to anyone here with the exception of the moderator. You are more than free to do a double post if you want to or if it’s a mistake.
I personally find your 17 just beautiful. I would just leave it as it is.
Welcome to the forum brother.

ColdSummer310

Let this thread die... Thanks everyone

ColdSummer310

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@ColdSummer310 said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

Well I'm beginning to thing I'm visually impaired. Don't discrimate lol seriously...
Last week I sent 1917 with variety What I thought is a DDO via diagnostics. I mean, they look totally different from the other 1917 ms 64 RB I have. You decide.

the coin above is in no way a ddo, fs-101 or otherwise unless it has microscopic doubling as a discovery not visible from the provided images which is probably a billion to 1.

keep trying but don't underestimate blowing up professional UNC images of varieties to confirm and see how obvious most of them are. also, if you have a PC/tablet and can save images to a folder, it will go MILES towards variety education. i've done it thousands of times, because it works.

The real question is who you walk a thousand miles for the 1917 images?

I'm using the smallest screen to view these. Like you suggested.

First things first. sure disappointed I though I had it. Diagnostics are there. Still a lovely 1917. When you have both these slabs I front of you it's day and night lol. Maybe one day I will find a DDO 1917! Or possible reconsideration? Educate me!

Alright This is the first true view.
My 1917 (1st sub)

The "1 in a billion" 1917 lol
Ive heard & It's obvious that pcgs enhances/ edits true views. Who knows. What do I do? Keep or call them ask about it?

A regular 1917 like mine

Regular 1917, I would do like I've done before make a few bucks.

I think Worst part is charged me for variety & disappointment (mainly)... Just recieved the item today. 10/1/2022. should have sent 3 days ago. I explained this to pcgs via email, due to the fact I wanted to bring it to long beach, cause I want to learn more about coin grading and variteys look like.

I guess it's acceptance I've seen so many threads about bad experience with PCGS. I wouldn't call this a bad experience just one of those things.

Thanks for reading.
Have a great weekend!

ColdSummer310

Here are photos
https://flic.kr/p/2noZpnW
https://flic.kr/p/2np5QZJ
https://flic.kr/p/2np5EPM

AUandAG

Looks fine to me. I don't see any color at all.
bob
PS: I would not leave PCGS over this issue.
And WELCOME

gumby1234

It may have been dipped in something that changed the color a little. Looks ok to me from the photos. Maybe looks different in hand or different lighting conditions?

ColdSummer310

I wasn't planning on leaving PCGS!! Their service is top tier.
Okay your saying you agree with the grade pcgs has given?. QC? Just to be clear.

Thank you for the welcome!!

ColdSummer310

Thank you for the Confirmations I'm still learning how to navigate this fourm. Do you guys mind to awnser 1 more question I hate to make a new thread and be that guy.....

ColdSummer310

Could this be 1909 VDB MPL? Has diagonstics... Thank you for your time!!!

https://flic.kr/p/2nd6p3M
https://flic.kr/p/2nd6oZW

https://flic.kr/p/2ndcZhZ

https://flic.kr/p/2nd6pdX

https://flic.kr/p/2ndbBoz

ColdSummer310

@davewesen said:
Here is a link to the cert, so in another month when the TruView shows up we can see what they saw.

https://pcgs.com/cert/45107226

Very Cool thank you for new info!'N

@davewesen said:
Here is a link to the cert, so in another month when the TruView shows up we can see what they saw.

https://pcgs.com/cert/45107226

@davewesen said:
Here is a link to the cert, so in another month when the TruView shows up we can see what they saw.

https://pcgs.com/cert/45107226

@davewesen said:
Here is a link to the cert, so in another month when the TruView shows up we can see what they saw.

https://pcgs.com/cert/45107226

@davewesen said:
Here is a link to the cert, so in another month when the TruView shows up we can see what they saw.

https://pcgs.com/cert/45107226

@davewesen said:
Here is a link to the cert, so in another month when the TruView shows up we can see what they saw.

https://pcgs.com/cert/45107226

@jughead1893 said:
The color doesn’t really say”100 year old copper coin” to me.How long have you owned it ? Welcome to the forum!

@jughead1893 said:
The color doesn’t really say”100 year old copper coin” to me.How long have you owned it ? Welcome to the forum!

Haha yes true, a month, old timer had sold it to me. I mean the case looked OLD! Possibility I might have gotten hustled!

Thank you for the other in put, shout out to fellow user that wrote a analysis I do appreciate that!
I'm on mobile & super slow.

Thanks

ColdSummer310

Yes sir, I was being a princess x) no I retract that statement!!! You guys are super cool! Thanks

LanceNewmanOCC

already posted

ColdSummer310

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
already posted

I apologize brother. Won't happen again. Still learning.

ColdSummer310

@gumby1234 said:
It may have been dipped in something that changed the color a little. Looks ok to me from the photos. Maybe looks different in hand or different lighting conditions?

thank you for Everyone's input. I really appreciate it & what an awesome community!! 🤙🏽🤙🏽🤙🏽

LanceNewmanOCC

@ColdSummer310 said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
already posted

I apologize brother. Won't happen again. Still learning.

.
not what you posted. what i posted was.

i look forward to this unfolding a bit more once the images are posted from pcgs.

davewesen

your linked pictures do not show any color to me ... it could be lighting or not there now, that is why seeing what they saw with the TruView could be more definitive.

The 1909 VDB mpl diagnostics are difficult with pictures, need a loupe and in hand.

link showing some -> https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/608346/1909-vdb-the-first-matte-proof-lincoln-die-diagnostics-informational-thread/p1

ricko

@ColdSummer310.... Welcome aboard. I believe (based on the pictures), that the QC refers to the bright copper on a 100+ year old coin. To the graders, that would infer a major dip. Cheers, RickO

robec

@ColdSummer310 said:
Could this be 1909 VDB MPL? Has diagonstics... Thank you for your time!!!

https://flic.kr/p/2nd6p3M
https://flic.kr/p/2nd6oZW

https://flic.kr/p/2ndcZhZ

https://flic.kr/p/2nd6pdX

https://flic.kr/p/2ndbBoz

Need better pics of the reverse die chip. From your photo yours looks like it is in the correct location, but the shape doesn’t look exactly like die chip on the authentic VDB MPL.

Your obverse photos don’t show the die scratches in front of the nose or the one radiating from the shoulder into the field.

ColdSummer310

Here is true view.
Remember I had said it was a 1917 DDO (92497) on the submission. In my opinion that's what it looks like & the die markers are their!
They classed only as 1917.. Im not sure

Thanks for for the pictures of the matte proof I might have one I compared the photos.

ColdSummer310

Is it worth a shot?

Broadstruck

Yeah, looks dipped and if you can't tell looking at the surfaces the rims will usually tell you first as it tries to re-skin/re-tone.

Elcontador

Color on obverse doesn't look right. Don Willis, David Hall's right hand man at PCGS, about 10 years ago told me the reason PCGS stopped its grade guarantee on RD copper is that doctors were making RD copper, PCGS was slabbing it because it looked fine to them at the time, and two months later the color turned. They got tired of being burned.

Artificially created RD copper sometimes has a pinkish tone, which is easily spotted. The color here in the obverse fields does not match the color closer to the devices, which tells me something has been done to the coin, which is not good.

LanceNewmanOCC

@ColdSummer310 said:
Here is true view.
Remember I had said it was a 1917 DDO (92497) on the submission. In my opinion that's what it looks like & the die markers are their!
They classed only as 1917.. Im not sure

Thanks for for the pictures of the matte proof I might have one I compared the photos.

.
.
you can enlarge this image from CoinFacts. it is literally impossible to confuse the 17 p ddo fs-101 in any grade above fine really unless the coin has serious corrosion/damage etc.

in the unc condition, well, i think a person has to be visually impaired to confuse it.

17-p is a very nice with strong spread ddo.

Connecticoin

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@ColdSummer310 said:
Here is true view.
Remember I had said it was a 1917 DDO (92497) on the submission. In my opinion that's what it looks like & the die markers are their!
They classed only as 1917.. Im not sure

Thanks for for the pictures of the matte proof I might have one I compared the photos.

.
.
you can enlarge this image from CoinFacts. it is literally impossible to confuse the 17 p ddo fs-101 in any grade above fine really unless the coin has serious corrosion/damage etc.

in the unc condition, well, i think a person has to be visually impaired to confuse it.

17-p is a very nice with strong spread ddo.

From the Trueview pic, the spread on the OP coin is not near as much as this photo and is in the other direction - looks like MD on the OP coin.

ColdSummer310

I'm going to long Beach expo this weekend. I'll bring it to see what they say. Thank you

ColdSummer310

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@ColdSummer310 said:
Here is true view.
Remember I had said it was a 1917 DDO (92497) on the submission. In my opinion that's what it looks like & the die markers are their!
They classed only as 1917.. Im not sure

Thanks for for the pictures of the matte proof I might have one I compared the photos.

.
.
you can enlarge this image from CoinFacts. it is literally impossible to confuse the 17 p ddo fs-101 in any grade above fine really unless the coin has serious corrosion/damage etc.

in the unc condition, well, i think a person has to be visually impaired to confuse it.

17-p is a very nice with strong spread ddo.

Yeah brotha I got you.I sent it in hoping I would get the DDO, Not variety "FS". Now I wish it would have just gotten a Grade 😆

ColdSummer310

@Broadstruck said:
Yeah, looks dipped and if you can't tell looking at the surfaces the rims will usually tell you first as it tries to re-skin/re-tone.

Didn't see this. Thank you! Thank you everyone for all your help!!! Awesome community here!!!!

ColdSummer310

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@ColdSummer310 said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
already posted

I apologize brother. Won't happen again. Still learning.

.
not what you posted. what i posted was.

i look forward to this unfolding a bit more once the images are posted from pcgs.

Thank you again 🙏🏽

ColdSummer310

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@ColdSummer310 said:
Here is true view.
Remember I had said it was a 1917 DDO (92497) on the submission. In my opinion that's what it looks like & the die markers are their!
They classed only as 1917.. Im not sure

Thanks for for the pictures of the matte proof I might have one I compared the photos.

.
.
you can enlarge this image from CoinFacts. it is literally impossible to confuse the 17 p ddo fs-101 in any grade above fine really unless the coin has serious corrosion/damage etc.

in the unc condition, well, i think a person has to be visually impaired to confuse it.

17-p is a very nice with strong spread ddo.

Well I'm beginning to thing I'm visually impaired. Don't discrimate lol seriously...
Last week I sent 1917 with variety What I thought is a DDO via diagnostics. I mean, they look totally different from the other 1917 ms 64 RB I have. You decide.

LanceNewmanOCC

@crazyhounddog said:

@ColdSummer310 said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
already posted

I apologize brother. Won't happen again. Still learning.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a double post and you sure as hell don’t need to apologize to anyone here with the exception of the moderator. You are more than free to do a double post if you want to or if it’s a mistake.
I personally find your 17 just beautiful. I would just leave it as it is.
Welcome to the forum brother.

while i appreciate the point you are making and i agree, it would be nice if you were to quote me with such a post, you would have included my post explaining what that post meant, which was NOT intended for the OP.

LanceNewmanOCC

@ColdSummer310 said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

Well I'm beginning to thing I'm visually impaired. Don't discrimate lol seriously...
Last week I sent 1917 with variety What I thought is a DDO via diagnostics. I mean, they look totally different from the other 1917 ms 64 RB I have. You decide.

the coin above is in no way a ddo, fs-101 or otherwise unless it has microscopic doubling as a discovery not visible from the provided images which is probably a billion to 1.

keep trying but don't underestimate blowing up professional UNC images of varieties to confirm and see how obvious most of them are. also, if you have a PC/tablet and can save images to a folder, it will go MILES towards variety education. i've done it thousands of times, because it works.

ColdSummer310