Quite disappointed in my consignment prices realized in tonight's GC auction
Luxor
Posts: 486 ✭✭✭✭✭
I keep hearing how strong this current market is, and routinely see mediocre quality generic junk on GC and Heritage bringing silly prices week after week so I decided to test the waters and consign a few generic coins to GC which sold tonight. I consigned a generic but nice quality PCGS MS65 common date Saint, an attractive rim toned generic Morgan in NGC 66 black retro holder and other stuff, and was not happy at all with what they sold for compared to what I've recently seen similar and lesser quality coins sell for. At least I was happy it was a small consignment with none of my better pieces included. Perhaps it was the holiday weekend, perhaps I have a bad eye and my coins are actually low end, or maybe the market isn't that strong after all, or maybe just bad luck? In any case, I've tested the waters and do not see myself consigning any further Saints or dollars to GC in the near future as I previously had planned. 
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Comments
How about more information such as lot numbers, dates or images so we might see what the bidders saw?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
hammer prices?
I consigned a few coins not too long ago, and while the results weren't fantastic, they were fair for what I consigned. I don't think going in with expectations of sky high bids will leave you content every time.
Coin Photographer.
"an attractive rim toned generic Morgan in NGC 66 black retro holder"
I think I saw that, and I thought it was going a bit low (maybe $30 under sheet bid, when factoring in buyers premium -- of course meaning that a net to the cosigner was significantly back of bid). I choose not to bid due to the reverse not doing it for me, and I was thinking it might be a tough bit for others as well. The obverse was all there tho. I did not see what it hammered for. I guess I could go look it up.
If this was the MS 66 coin, it went for $281 hammer, $6 over sheet. Or $40 over sheet when you add in shipping and hammer fees. So...pretty strong for the house. And pretty strong for the cosigner, too. If you were the AU 58 CAC coin, then that went right at sheet....
For perspective, I picked up a 66 CAC for the same price....slightly better date tho. So I'd think your result on that coin was pretty good.
So maybe you win some, lose some?
The coins that I bid on tonight went very high. One went for a record price.
Here's a pic of the Saint that I will net somewhere around 2100.00 on.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Must be hit or miss. The coins I was watching tonight went high. The only bid I put in, I was blown out of the water.
My one huge complaint about GC - the picture quality is not sufficient. Impossible to judge a coin without better pics.
I will only bid if there is a truview or a cac sticker (which for me is confirmation that there are no hidden problems). *I will also bid on moderns which all look the same in 69/70.
I almost broke my rule tonight and bid on an OGH coin w/no cac. But ultimately didn't want to take the risk of getting a puttied coin or some other problem. GC pics don't show the surfaces well enough. And back to the original topic - that coin went strong anyway, if I had bid I would have lost.
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Check out these strong prices tonight for some amazing Buffalos with older holders. Don’t understand why you think you didn’t get the correct prices. 1938D rattler gold sticker, gorgeous
$432 with BP.
1913 MS 66 NGC OH green sticker
$630 with BP
Beautiful coins especially in older holder super strong.
Sometimes it comes down to luck. If nobody in particular is bidding on a lot number. Generic coins can get overlooked. I haven't done any auctions for a long long time. When I did I had the lots I wanted in mind and did not pay much attention to anything else.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
I'm confused. How are some Buffalos with apparently strong prices related to the different coins the OP consigned?
They’re not.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If you put that coin on the BST, I would have paid a lot more than $2100 and I don't issue 1099's
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
They are not, of course, but GC has its own devotees here and they are defending their religion.
Neither does GC... not that taxability is affected by the 1099.
You can put reserves on your coins. Personally, I don't think consigning generics to auction is very efficient as the fees are higher than bid/ask spreads and you need two motivated buyers. Since generics are, by definition, ubiquitous, you can't guarantee that two motivated individuals will show up.
Great Collections can be a good place to sell but it is only one of several alternatives. If I look at what my collection consists of and was selling, GC might be the choice for certain items but absolutely not for most of the rest of things. That's what I've done on three occasions during the past 2-3 years, selling generic "widgets" and coins from commonly collected series' at GC. The results were mixed but the final prices for each consignment was close to my estimate.
JMHO, but making a choice to sell based on the results of previous auctions probably isn't a good approach.
It would be hard to make a choice based on future auctions.
I think past results are definitely relevant. People look at auction archives for a reason.
Holiday weekend?? Stocks/crypto/precious metals down??
Like others, would like to see the specifics of the other coins.
@Luxor The lack of a CAC sticker certainly didn’t help your cause. Did you send them in?
Auctions can be good or bad. I have seen auction items sell for ridiculous prices - much higher than justified. Conversely, I have purchased items worth far more than the hammer price. Much depends on the items, the audience, or the particular venue. Cheers, RickO
Buying is easy, selling not always.
In the future, you can set minimum prices on GC and if they don't sell , adjust prices down or just have them send the coins back to you to try other avenues of selling
I agree with PerryHall, that coin deserved much better than $2100. I think some coins get passed over because other potential buyers believe the coin is going to go much higher and decide not to bid. The go back to the auction after it closes and kick themself in the butt for not bidding when the see the low price the coin went for. That coin was a bargain at $2100 in my opinion.
The OP said that he would “net somewhere around 2100.00”. That indicates to me that the coin sold for more than that to the winning bidder.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I just completed a 30 coin outing with GC. And guess what, the coins I thought would be stellar were not, but many coins I was worried about did. So go figure. I will be using Ian again later this summer.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Another thing I have noticed, when folks sell on ebay they tell the sell price with the fees to be deducted, but when they talk of GC its just the net price they realized. Compare oranges to oranges. I do think the market is not completely high now, but up and down to some extent. Don't compare your MS66 coin to another's MS66 with a gold CAC sticker, as there will be a price difference most likely.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Should be about 2300, a little over. There's no seller premium over $1000 and a 10% BP.
Given that current Greysheet on a 65 is $2200, I'm not sure I would have expected it to go much higher. CPG is $2780. Heritage has been getting more like the CPG price recently.
looks like a pretty nickel.
looks like the double eagle sold for less than it did in feb 2022 via HA.
here are the comps at GC. a lot of variation in holder type/gen/tpg.
As usual I will offer my opinion and don't take it as fact.
I'm guessing that the saint sold for around $2,300. That coin looked OK and I'm wondering if CAC saw it. It would have been a good idea to submit it. Also, closing on a holiday weekend might not have been a good decision.
In the old days 20+ years ago a gem saint would have been a dream coin for me. Now not so much. I believe there are enough buyers of MS65 saints to cause a first time buyer to reach for it but not so much in the last 30-60 days. Buyers have FOMO on those as spot gold is rocketing higher. FOMO buyers have a delicate psychology. Gold gets soft and it affects their brain in strange ways. I'm thinking you were possibly disappointed because of your net results and timing had a lot to do with it.
PCGS price for that coin is $3150. Would the $2100 net to the seller reflect a coin that went for over $3000?
The 1099 thing is only a selling point for people who are intending on cheating on their taxes. Are there that many collectors like that, where it would be beneficial to let them know?
They don't issue 1099's either. Unless something has changed recently.
bob
There were 7 MS65 1927 PCGS none sticker Saints sold at GC in May of 2022.
Yours
$2394 Late May 2022
Others
$2374
$2396
$2643
$2925
$2475
$2752 Early May 2022
Unfortunately, your coin sold in the range of current sales at GC for a 1927 MS65 Saint with no sticker. I am not seeing a performance issue at GC for your coin based on recent sales. For some reason the common date MS65 1927 Saint dropped in price at GC in late May 2022.
Maybe it's just that it is a holiday weekend. I know a lot of my friends who are actively buying coins are traveling this weekend and probably not dropping any bids any place. Might just have been bad timing for your consignment.
No, and it wouldn’t be close. But currently, PCGS MS65 common date Saints don’t typically sell for over $3000.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not exactly sure why you would be “quite disappointed”. Quick search of an online dealer referenced here and that I have used shows ms65 coins at $2550ish. So if I am buying on GC, I would likely be trying to pick up a coin like this for $2300-$2500. Seems to,me that the final price is in that range.
I also think you had some bad luck. I know on the east coast, weather was phenomenal. Many people were out doing other things and at holiday gatherings. I know I missed bidding on a number of items I was interested in. The day was so great, that everything else took second place.
Did you see my winky emoji? I just wanted to see how many forum members would lecture me on paying taxes. I'm a collector and only buy coins and I never sell them. Also, I pay all my taxes. How many coin dealers report every small cash transaction they conduct?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
My personal opinion: hogwash
You buy a coin for $2,000 you sell it for $2,000. A 1099 shows $2,000 in income and then you have to file as though you were running a side business. A lot of people don't want to deal with that and it doesn't label them as a crooked non filer. It labels them as just a non filer. I wish anonymous internet posters would pass on judging people they don't know. To me, labeling people as no exceptions tax cheats is poor form. Those people better live in a glass house. But since it's just the internet, accusing other people of being tax cheats, it's takes the eyes off you.
Yes, I saw it but I don't see a lecture about you paying your taxes. I can't answer for anyone else, but my comment was directed at those who might be thinking about cheating. Since you said you pay yours, that would mean it wasn't intended for you.
My comment:
"The 1099 thing is only a selling point for people who are intending on cheating on their taxes."
People who are intending on cheating on their taxes ARE tax cheats.
Hi - this was a more generic type of coin, which realized $2,128 plus the buyer's fee (the buyer paid $2,394 including the buyer's fee, or slightly less if paid by check/wire). Saints in 65 have retreated a little since gold decreased $125.
In reviewing prices realized from last night (in all price ranges), the prices were strong overall, and participation was extremely high. It was one of our most diverse auctions we've ever had, and I didn't see any areas of weakness.
For the OP - if you would ever like our estimate before consigning, please e-mail us at support@greatcollections.com - we'd be pleased to give you our opinion before you consign.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Most of the ones I deal with.
I was watching/bidding on several Gold CAC’s and an NGC 2.1 Morgan. I thought the Gold CAC’s did quite well but the 2.1 went a bit lower than expected.
Tim
The breast and knee sure look flat and laden with friction. Maybe most buyers saw it as over-graded.
On another note, unless they have unusual eye appeal, toning, PL fields, are top pop or have some sort of special plastic/sticker, I do not recommend selling generics at auction. You will almost always come out better selling it yourself. That’s true for every auction venue including well recognized/established ones like GC.
Maybe he’s selling for a loss and doesn’t want to go through the paper work to show the loss. There is no tax on capital losses, and collectors can only write off loses if they qualify as investors which few collectors bother with as it is an invitation for audit. It may be an issue of not wanting to complicate his filings rather than tax evasion per se.
Who actually wants to do paper work? Probably nobody.
Worst days to end a sale as a seller in on a holiday since most married collectors end up on a tight leash forcefully focused on just family obligations.
Good days to rip as a buyer is on a holiday.
Awesome buyer rip days right after Xmas, New Year's Day, and Superbowl Sunday.
Who is required to provide a 1099? A collector or just dealers? FWIW, the reason that you don't get one from GC or HA is because they are giving you your money and not theirs.
I can only speak to GC's results on holidays. We had some regular consignors in the early days who would avoid holiday weekends for their coins to sell. I remember one in particular who gave it a shot in our 3rd or 4th year. Now he only sends in coins for holiday sales. So many people want to get away from their families, and a coin auction is the perfect excuse. We don't see any drop off in # of bidders, invoices etc. even on Thanksgiving Sunday, Christmas, Super Bowl etc.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
I'm not sure I understand...
You bought the Saint for $2,520 from Heritage in February in one of their weekly Internet auctions and resold it for $2,396 (with buyer's premium) 3 months later. What could your expectations have been??? The "make offer to owner of $3780 or higher"?
Greysheet is $2,220 for nonCAC. There were five sales of comps in April between $2,400 and $2,751.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Or maybe GC just gets a majority of bidders that didn't have a prom date & are still sitting at home alone on holidays eating a Swanson's frozen turkey TV dinner?