Great thread, both Heritage and Ebay do sent out texts to your phone for the auctions and auction items you are interested in. This is very convenient as I can bid from my phone wherever or whatever I'm doing. It would be great if Ian did this, but it is expensive and may increase fees.. On the other hand it would bring in more bidding activity I think.
Maybe Great Collections does this already? In which case nevermind..
@Luxor said:
Here's a pic of the Saint that I will net somewhere around 2100.00 on.
If you put that coin on the BST, I would have paid a lot more than $2100 and I don't issue 1099's
Neither does GC... not that taxability is affected by the 1099.
Who is required to provide a 1099? A collector or just dealers? FWIW, the reason that you don't get one from GC or HA is because they are giving you your money and not theirs.
It wasn't about collectors or dealers. It is payment processors.
I have a lot of sales resistance and try not to buy the hype and irrationality that some auction companies will give you crazy high results, but that's the over-promotion we've been seeing with some auction results. "Moon prices realized" screamed one recent Greysheet issue. Type gold probably does not belong in many of these auctions, HA may take a bigger chunk of the money without much higher results and payment takes a lot longer from start to finish compared to GC. I'd agree the bst forums are probably the way to go or calling around to major buyers.
I didn’t want to piece out my $5, $10 and $20 gold. Initially I sent an email to GC but when I didn’t get a reply but got one quickly from HA all my gold went there. I will probably end up total in a loss, like 10% give or take. I will have to wait and see how this all unfolds. I was selling to raise funds for my CBH collection as I decided to concentrate in that area.
Yes, HA takes a long time to send funds and they broke my coins into 4 different auctions plus they offered to buy outright some of my gold coins. In the last case I broke even which I thought was great. The last of my gold is in the Old Holder auction, there my 1927 PCGS MS64 CAC OGH is currently at $1950 with a week to go.
@Luxor said:
I keep hearing how strong this current market is, and routinely see mediocre quality generic junk on GC and Heritage bringing silly prices week after week so I decided to test the waters and consign a few generic coins to GC which sold tonight. I consigned a generic but nice quality PCGS MS65 common date Saint, an attractive rim toned generic Morgan in NGC 66 black retro holder and other stuff, and was not happy at all with what they sold for compared to what I've recently seen similar and lesser quality coins sell for. At least I was happy it was a small consignment with none of my better pieces included. Perhaps it was the holiday weekend, perhaps I have a bad eye and my coins are actually low end, or maybe the market isn't that strong after all, or maybe just bad luck? In any case, I've tested the waters and do not see myself consigning any further Saints or dollars to GC in the near future as I previously had planned.
Check out these strong prices tonight for some amazing Buffalos with older holders. Don’t understand why you think you didn’t get the correct prices. 1938D rattler gold sticker, gorgeous
Beautiful coins especially in older holder super strong.
I'm confused. How are some Buffalos with apparently strong prices related to the different coins the OP consigned?
My point was special nice coins do very well at GC auctions but it’s dicey with regular generic items. So you can’t expect great prices usually unless you have the right coins.
@Joey29 said:
My point was special nice coins do very well at GC auctions but it’s dicey with regular generic items. So you can’t expect great prices usually unless you have the right coins.
Couldn't the same argument be used for just about any venue?
@Joey29 said:
My point was special nice coins do very well at GC auctions but it’s dicey with regular generic items. So you can’t expect great prices usually unless you have the right coins.
Couldn't the same argument be used for just about any venue?
Yes. That's why such coins really shouldn't be sent to auction.
Auction houses are not the best place to sell common date coins like a Saint. There are literally thousands of uncirculated Saints and the price of gold has dropped from its recent high. The juice is going to kill you and the likelihood of a bidding war is virtually impossible with such a common coin. Selling the coins privately would be first choice. You probably would have done better if you tried selling the coins directly to Stacks or Heritage.
@ianrussell said:
Hi - this was a more generic type of coin, which realized $2,128 plus the buyer's fee (the buyer paid $2,394 including the buyer's fee, or slightly less if paid by check/wire). Saints in 65 have retreated a little since gold decreased $125.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us, Ian. The results were within the ballpark. a major dealer's quotation sheet for MS65 Saints was Bid $2,190 Ask $2,290 on 5/27/2022.
@ianrussell said:
Hi - this was a more generic type of coin, which realized $2,128 plus the buyer's fee (the buyer paid $2,394 including the buyer's fee, or slightly less if paid by check/wire). Saints in 65 have retreated a little since gold decreased $125.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us, Ian. The results were within the ballpark. a major dealer's quotation sheet for MS65 Saints was Bid $2,190 Ask $2,290 on 5/27/2022.
I have only consigned one coin to GC so far. I was extremely pleased with the price realized. It was a 5 figure coin.
Yes of course it was a mint error😉
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@Luxor said:
Here's a pic of the Saint that I will net somewhere around 2100.00 on.
If you put that coin on the BST, I would have paid a lot more than $2100 and I don't issue 1099's
Neither does GC... not that taxability is affected by the 1099.
Who is required to provide a 1099? A collector or just dealers? FWIW, the reason that you don't get one from GC or HA is because they are giving you your money and not theirs.
It wasn't about collectors or dealers. It is payment processors.
Payment processors aren't relevant to this thread. Poster PerryHall said that as a private buyer he wouldn't issue a 1099. So my question is is there ever a time when a private buyer should issue a 1099? Or are they exempt?
Fairly often, I try to dissuade potential consignors from consigning certain generic coins. In those instances, I explain that they would probably net more via a direct sale than through auction and let them know I’d be happy to provide direct purchase offers.
Sometimes, they ask for offers and end up selling the coins to me. Other times, they keep the coins or consign them, anyway. I’m sure that every once in a while, someone is suspicious, when I tell them I’m trying to help them net more, even though we, the auction house, would make more through a consignment.
There are occasions when a seller of generic coins is consigning them (rather than selling through a private transaction) for legal purposes, as in probate situations or family disputes.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Luxor said:
Here's a pic of the Saint that I will net somewhere around 2100.00 on.
If you put that coin on the BST, I would have paid a lot more than $2100 and I don't issue 1099's
Neither does GC... not that taxability is affected by the 1099.
Who is required to provide a 1099? A collector or just dealers? FWIW, the reason that you don't get one from GC or HA is because they are giving you your money and not theirs.
It wasn't about collectors or dealers. It is payment processors.
Payment processors aren't relevant to this thread. Poster PerryHall said that as a private buyer he wouldn't issue a 1099. So my question is is there ever a time when a private buyer should issue a 1099? Or are they exempt?
Private buyers are exempt. I thought that was obvious by implication since they are not payments processors. Ebay doesn't issue 1099's on sales, it issues them on payments processed as does PayPal.
I think the bottom line should be viewed as follows - a MS65 Saint common date is generic that you put in auction. The downside risk is quite minimal 9 say $150 or so. If you thought that the coin was going to sell for moon money, and it didn't so you lost a few bucks to play the upside. You lost a few bucks. I really can't feel bad for your decision. Now if you put into auction a better date scarce Saint that is PCGS65, with great eye appeal and the coin was CAC with a low pop and it sold below more than 10% of recent auction prices, then I would feel bad for you.
Historically, the coin market slows between Memorial Day and Labor Day. This is naturally attributed to the summer months and people, even coin collectors, preferring to be outdoors or on a vacation. Even in an age where an auction transaction could be made from anywhere on the planet, as humans we find enjoyment in many other things only beautiful warm weather afford. So for those types of lower grade you've listed, this becomes magnified. You would have gotten more in March, or, if you waited, mid-September.
I'd like to know how Luxor's thread got derailed into.... if you use certain venues to sell you're not going to get issued a 1099 and the people who use those venues do so because they are crooked tax cheats with premeditation.
@streeter said:
I'd like to know how Luxor's thread got derailed into.... if you use certain venues to sell you're not going to get issued a 1099 and the people who use those venues do so because they are crooked tax cheats with premeditation.
You don't read enough threads. The footprints are in this thread and spread across numerous other threads.
@streeter said:
I'd like to know how Luxor's thread got derailed into.... if you use certain venues to sell you're not going to get issued a 1099 and the people who use those venues do so because they are crooked tax cheats with premeditation.
You don't read enough threads. The footprints are in this thread and spread across numerous other threads.
I've read every thread for 20 years FYI except the parking lot damage threads and those by single digit newbies. We need an OFFICIAL DERAILER Award winner annually.
Since you're familiar with the concept, you can make the awards.
@streeter said:
I'd like to know how Luxor's thread got derailed into.... if you use certain venues to sell you're not going to get issued a 1099 and the people who use those venues do so because they are crooked tax cheats with premeditation.
You don't read enough threads. The footprints are in this thread and spread across numerous other threads.
I've read every thread for 20 years FYI except the parking lot damage threads and those by single digit newbies. We need an OFFICIAL DERAILER Award winner annually.
Since you're familiar with the concept, you can make the awards.
Well, in this case, PerryHall baited the hook and MasonG jumped on it. Shall we split the award?
@streeter said:
I'd like to know how Luxor's thread got derailed into.... if you use certain venues to sell you're not going to get issued a 1099 and the people who use those venues do so because they are crooked tax cheats with premeditation.
I didn't know that those who consign to auctions are tax cheats. Velly interesting.
@ianrussell said:
Hi - this was a more generic type of coin, which realized $2,128 plus the buyer's fee (the buyer paid $2,394 including the buyer's fee, or slightly less if paid by check/wire). Saints in 65 have retreated a little since gold decreased $125.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us, Ian. The results were within the ballpark. a major dealer's quotation sheet for MS65 Saints was Bid $2,190 Ask $2,290 on 5/27/2022.
Shows how the price of gold fluctuates from moment to moment just like stocks do. My quote was based on:
Quotes as of: 5/27/22 09:07 a.m. Basis Gold: 1852.80
@streeter said:
I'd like to know how Luxor's thread got derailed into.... if you use certain venues to sell you're not going to get issued a 1099 and the people who use those venues do so because they are crooked tax cheats with premeditation.
You don't read enough threads. The footprints are in this thread and spread across numerous other threads.
I've read every thread for 20 years FYI except the parking lot damage threads and those by single digit newbies. We need an OFFICIAL DERAILER Award winner annually.
Since you're familiar with the concept, you can make the awards.
Well, in this case, PerryHall baited the hook and MasonG jumped on it. Shall we split the award?
Perry Hall is a very clever person. Don't let his remarks convince you otherwise. He knows what he's doing.
I dont think this type of auction route whether it be GC, HA stacks, whoever is the best place to sell generic gold, especially 20's. if you had one of the scarcer dates, then completely different story. you'd be better of selling them to one of the national dealers in the market that work on buy/sell spreads. I sell mine to HA directly, if I dont have a customer. One of my customers had a group of like 15 $10 Libs NGC 62-64's , he didn't like my price, basically I took what HA would pay me, took off 4% percent, and made a quote. He shipped them to auction instead, and actually netted a few dollars less than i offered him, and took 3 months of waiting to get the funds.
@streeter said:
I'd like to know how Luxor's thread got derailed into.... if you use certain venues to sell you're not going to get issued a 1099 and the people who use those venues do so because they are crooked tax cheats with premeditation.
You don't read enough threads. The footprints are in this thread and spread across numerous other threads.
I've read every thread for 20 years FYI except the parking lot damage threads and those by single digit newbies. We need an OFFICIAL DERAILER Award winner annually.
Since you're familiar with the concept, you can make the awards.
Well, in this case, PerryHall baited the hook and MasonG jumped on it. Shall we split the award?
Perry Hall is a very clever person. Don't let his remarks convince you otherwise. He knows what he's doing.
CPG on the 1927 PCGS65 Saint is $2780. Netting $2100 is about 5 pct behind CDN Bid.
We can draw our own conclusions. I can understand your hoping for more.
It’s a very nice coin and and a good buy for someone at that. People have hyped up the market but the reality is what you realize at auction or off the bourse.
Many GC auctions I bid on there I lose bc of last second nuclear bidders. Others just put in my high bid hope for best.
@Cougar1978 said:
CPG on the 1927 PCGS65 Saint is $2780. Netting $2100 is about 5 pct behind CDN Bid.
We can draw our own conclusions. I can understand your hoping for more. A friend who has a sizeable inventory who does many shows buys at 10 pct behind bid and sells at 10 pct over bid on that type of big ticket material.
It’s a very nice coin and and a good buy for someone at that. People have hyped up the market but the reality is what you realize at auction or off the bourse.
Most GC auctions I bid on there I lose bc of last second nuclear bidders even if sitting on the bid button till close. But sometimes get lucky pickoff some nice deals. My goal pickup about 5 pct behind bid or less (bid plus juice).
Your friend can work on roughly a 20% spread on generic coins, like common date MS65 Saints?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A coin like that should never been consigned to auction unless required by a divorce, estate, etc.
It's not rare.
It has pretty established pricing.
It has lots of potential dealers and other buyers.
But, there is no "Wow" factor to the coin that would make people want to drive the price so far above wholesale.
@streeter said:
I'd like to know how Luxor's thread got derailed into.... if you use certain venues to sell you're not going to get issued a 1099 and the people who use those venues do so because they are crooked tax cheats with premeditation.
You don't read enough threads. The footprints are in this thread and spread across numerous other threads.
I've read every thread for 20 years FYI except the parking lot damage threads and those by single digit newbies. We need an OFFICIAL DERAILER Award winner annually.
Since you're familiar with the concept, you can make the awards.
Well, in this case, PerryHall baited the hook and MasonG jumped on it. Shall we split the award?
Perry Hall is a very clever person. Don't let his remarks convince you otherwise. He knows what he's doing.
+1
I agree, he is good to do business with. Soon he will be running ads, "Top dollar paid, the King of Cash #3".
@Cougar1978 said:
CPG on the 1927 PCGS65 Saint is $2780. Netting $2100 is about 5 pct behind CDN Bid.
We can draw our own conclusions. I can understand your hoping for more. A friend who has a sizeable inventory who does many shows buys at 10 pct behind bid and sells at 10 pct over bid on that type of big ticket material.
It’s a very nice coin and and a good buy for someone at that. People have hyped up the market but the reality is what you realize at auction or off the bourse.
Most GC auctions I bid on there I lose bc of last second nuclear bidders even if sitting on the bid button till close. But sometimes get lucky pickoff some nice deals. My goal pickup about 5 pct behind bid or less (bid plus juice).
Your friend can work on roughly a 20% spread on generic coins, like common date MS65 Saints?
I consider myself a lottery winner if I can get to 10%. 5% is about all you can hope for with widgets like that.
Yes my friend works (or so he says) with 20 pct (buy 10 pct below CDN bid sell 10 pct above) spread (at least as a goal). But that does not mean somebody would not come down if haggling and big ticket item. However agree with a competitive bourse room 20 pct that seems tough IMV. So I concede that more of a happy result target number. I don’t necessarily do high priced generics. Competition likely have. More of a coin / currency mix. A $2000 generic I would be glad if even making 5 pct on it. Some generic Saint if in green on it if even just $20 profit I would probably take the sale / cash flow.
I try have material competition does not likely have. Say nice MS 66 Oregon 50c or Texas 50c or key coins. Low pop slabbed world too. Last show currency outsold coins. You never know. Two big spenders can make ones show.
@Elmhurst said:
GC serves it’s purpose. You send your items in, they get into the queue, and that’s it. If you want boutique service, use another auction.
The complaint wasn't the service but the price realized.
@streeter said:
I'd like to know how Luxor's thread got derailed into.... if you use certain venues to sell you're not going to get issued a 1099 and the people who use those venues do so because they are crooked tax cheats with premeditation.
You don't read enough threads. The footprints are in this thread and spread across numerous other threads.
I've read every thread for 20 years FYI except the parking lot damage threads and those by single digit newbies. We need an OFFICIAL DERAILER Award winner annually.
Since you're familiar with the concept, you can make the awards.
Well, in this case, PerryHall baited the hook and MasonG jumped on it. Shall we split the award?
Perry Hall is a very clever person. Don't let his remarks convince you otherwise. He knows what he's doing.
Perry Hall is a troll? Noted. Thanks for pointing that out.
@streeter said:
I'd like to know how Luxor's thread got derailed into.... if you use certain venues to sell you're not going to get issued a 1099 and the people who use those venues do so because they are crooked tax cheats with premeditation.
You don't read enough threads. The footprints are in this thread and spread across numerous other threads.
I've read every thread for 20 years FYI except the parking lot damage threads and those by single digit newbies. We need an OFFICIAL DERAILER Award winner annually.
Since you're familiar with the concept, you can make the awards.
Well, in this case, PerryHall baited the hook and MasonG jumped on it. Shall we split the award?
Perry Hall is a very clever person. Don't let his remarks convince you otherwise. He knows what he's doing.
Perry Hall is a troll? Noted. Thanks for pointing that out.
If you netted $2,100 on that 1927 twenty in PCGS MS65, then you did well. The major market makers for pre-33 generic gold are currently paying right around $2,200 for the P/N 65 Saints. If you came to our office to sell the same coin, we would have offered around $2,100 because we would want to make $100 to handle the transaction.
@numisma said:
If you netted $2,100 on that 1927 twenty in PCGS MS65, then you did well. The major market makers for pre-33 generic gold are currently paying right around $2,200 for the P/N 65 Saints. If you came to our office to sell the same coin, we would have offered around $2,100 because we would want to make $100 to handle the transaction.
This is why one can frequently do better selling directly to a collector on the BST.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@numisma said:
If you netted $2,100 on that 1927 twenty in PCGS MS65, then you did well. The major market makers for pre-33 generic gold are currently paying right around $2,200 for the P/N 65 Saints. If you came to our office to sell the same coin, we would have offered around $2,100 because we would want to make $100 to handle the transaction.
This is why one can frequently do better selling directly to a collector on the BST.
I wonder.
First of all, you can sell directly to the market maker (including SB) for close to $2200. If a BST buyer had bought it from GC, it would have cost $2390. That leaves a $200 gap. So, if the BST buyer wants to pay $2300 (IF!!!), then there's $100 to be made for which the seller takes on all the risk while giving up any chance of the coin being bid up during the auction.
Personally, I would have sold to the market maker at $2170 and stayed away from BST and the auction house.
@numisma said:
If you netted $2,100 on that 1927 twenty in PCGS MS65, then you did well. The major market makers for pre-33 generic gold are currently paying right around $2,200 for the P/N 65 Saints. If you came to our office to sell the same coin, we would have offered around $2,100 because we would want to make $100 to handle the transaction.
This is why one can frequently do better selling directly to a collector on the BST.
I wonder.
First of all, you can sell directly to the market maker (including SB) for close to $2200. If a BST buyer had bought it from GC, it would have cost $2390. That leaves a $200 gap. So, if the BST buyer wants to pay $2300 (IF!!!), then there's $100 to be made for which the seller takes on all the risk while giving up any chance of the coin being bid up during the auction.
Personally, I would have sold to the market maker at $2170 and stayed away from BST and the auction house.
The BST is FREE!!! If the BST doesn't work, you can always take the low-ball offer from some dealer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@numisma said:
If you netted $2,100 on that 1927 twenty in PCGS MS65, then you did well. The major market makers for pre-33 generic gold are currently paying right around $2,200 for the P/N 65 Saints. If you came to our office to sell the same coin, we would have offered around $2,100 because we would want to make $100 to handle the transaction.
This is why one can frequently do better selling directly to a collector on the BST.
I wonder.
First of all, you can sell directly to the market maker (including SB) for close to $2200. If a BST buyer had bought it from GC, it would have cost $2390. That leaves a $200 gap. So, if the BST buyer wants to pay $2300 (IF!!!), then there's $100 to be made for which the seller takes on all the risk while giving up any chance of the coin being bid up during the auction.
Personally, I would have sold to the market maker at $2170 and stayed away from BST and the auction house.
The BST is FREE!!! If the BST doesn't work, you can always take the low-ball offer from some dealer.
To be fair, often, the so-called "low-ball" offer from the dealer isn't really low-ball and at the same time, better than what's offered on the BST.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@numisma said:
If you netted $2,100 on that 1927 twenty in PCGS MS65, then you did well. The major market makers for pre-33 generic gold are currently paying right around $2,200 for the P/N 65 Saints. If you came to our office to sell the same coin, we would have offered around $2,100 because we would want to make $100 to handle the transaction.
This is why one can frequently do better selling directly to a collector on the BST.
I wonder.
First of all, you can sell directly to the market maker (including SB) for close to $2200. If a BST buyer had bought it from GC, it would have cost $2390. That leaves a $200 gap. So, if the BST buyer wants to pay $2300 (IF!!!), then there's $100 to be made for which the seller takes on all the risk while giving up any chance of the coin being bid up during the auction.
Personally, I would have sold to the market maker at $2170 and stayed away from BST and the auction house.
The BST is FREE!!! If the BST doesn't work, you can always take the low-ball offer from some dealer.
Free is only useful if it nets you more money. It is simply not clear to me that it will net much more, if anything. Your talking about maybe $100 difference, if there's even a halfway motivated buyer.
I think it is far more likely that the BST buyers want to be at the same $2200 number.
@numisma said:
If you netted $2,100 on that 1927 twenty in PCGS MS65, then you did well. The major market makers for pre-33 generic gold are currently paying right around $2,200 for the P/N 65 Saints. If you came to our office to sell the same coin, we would have offered around $2,100 because we would want to make $100 to handle the transaction.
This is why one can frequently do better selling directly to a collector on the BST.
I wonder.
First of all, you can sell directly to the market maker (including SB) for close to $2200. If a BST buyer had bought it from GC, it would have cost $2390. That leaves a $200 gap. So, if the BST buyer wants to pay $2300 (IF!!!), then there's $100 to be made for which the seller takes on all the risk while giving up any chance of the coin being bid up during the auction.
Personally, I would have sold to the market maker at $2170 and stayed away from BST and the auction house.
The BST is FREE!!! If the BST doesn't work, you can always take the low-ball offer from some dealer.
To be fair, often, the so-called "low-ball" offer from the dealer isn't really low-ball and at the same time, better than what's offered on the BST.
Please don't forget that dealers are always evil and collectors are generous angels.
[Even though half of the BST shoppers are at least part time resellers.]
Comments
Great thread, both Heritage and Ebay do sent out texts to your phone for the auctions and auction items you are interested in. This is very convenient as I can bid from my phone wherever or whatever I'm doing. It would be great if Ian did this, but it is expensive and may increase fees.. On the other hand it would bring in more bidding activity I think.
Maybe Great Collections does this already? In which case nevermind..
Please don’t drag me into the downturn
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
It takes all kinds @broadstruck. Thank you for the color @ianrussell - very helpful commentary.
It wasn't about collectors or dealers. It is payment processors.
I have a lot of sales resistance and try not to buy the hype and irrationality that some auction companies will give you crazy high results, but that's the over-promotion we've been seeing with some auction results. "Moon prices realized" screamed one recent Greysheet issue. Type gold probably does not belong in many of these auctions, HA may take a bigger chunk of the money without much higher results and payment takes a lot longer from start to finish compared to GC. I'd agree the bst forums are probably the way to go or calling around to major buyers.
I didn’t want to piece out my $5, $10 and $20 gold. Initially I sent an email to GC but when I didn’t get a reply but got one quickly from HA all my gold went there. I will probably end up total in a loss, like 10% give or take. I will have to wait and see how this all unfolds. I was selling to raise funds for my CBH collection as I decided to concentrate in that area.
Yes, HA takes a long time to send funds and they broke my coins into 4 different auctions plus they offered to buy outright some of my gold coins. In the last case I broke even which I thought was great. The last of my gold is in the Old Holder auction, there my 1927 PCGS MS64 CAC OGH is currently at $1950 with a week to go.
My point was special nice coins do very well at GC auctions but it’s dicey with regular generic items. So you can’t expect great prices usually unless you have the right coins.
Couldn't the same argument be used for just about any venue?
Yes. That's why such coins really shouldn't be sent to auction.
Auction houses are not the best place to sell common date coins like a Saint. There are literally thousands of uncirculated Saints and the price of gold has dropped from its recent high. The juice is going to kill you and the likelihood of a bidding war is virtually impossible with such a common coin. Selling the coins privately would be first choice. You probably would have done better if you tried selling the coins directly to Stacks or Heritage.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us, Ian. The results were within the ballpark. a major dealer's quotation sheet for MS65 Saints was Bid $2,190 Ask $2,290 on 5/27/2022.
I disagree on the assessment of "friction" on the high points.
Overall the coin looks like a solid MS65 to me.
I have only consigned one coin to GC so far. I was extremely pleased with the price realized. It was a 5 figure coin.
Yes of course it was a mint error😉
Payment processors aren't relevant to this thread. Poster PerryHall said that as a private buyer he wouldn't issue a 1099. So my question is is there ever a time when a private buyer should issue a 1099? Or are they exempt?
Fairly often, I try to dissuade potential consignors from consigning certain generic coins. In those instances, I explain that they would probably net more via a direct sale than through auction and let them know I’d be happy to provide direct purchase offers.
Sometimes, they ask for offers and end up selling the coins to me. Other times, they keep the coins or consign them, anyway. I’m sure that every once in a while, someone is suspicious, when I tell them I’m trying to help them net more, even though we, the auction house, would make more through a consignment.
There are occasions when a seller of generic coins is consigning them (rather than selling through a private transaction) for legal purposes, as in probate situations or family disputes.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Private buyers are exempt. I thought that was obvious by implication since they are not payments processors. Ebay doesn't issue 1099's on sales, it issues them on payments processed as does PayPal.
I think the bottom line should be viewed as follows - a MS65 Saint common date is generic that you put in auction. The downside risk is quite minimal 9 say $150 or so. If you thought that the coin was going to sell for moon money, and it didn't so you lost a few bucks to play the upside. You lost a few bucks. I really can't feel bad for your decision. Now if you put into auction a better date scarce Saint that is PCGS65, with great eye appeal and the coin was CAC with a low pop and it sold below more than 10% of recent auction prices, then I would feel bad for you.
… reading this thread is like listening to the ESPN analysts after the game … such wisdom!
Hey @Luxor don’t consign your avatar piece until I first have a chance to bury myself in it …🍺😆
Historically, the coin market slows between Memorial Day and Labor Day. This is naturally attributed to the summer months and people, even coin collectors, preferring to be outdoors or on a vacation. Even in an age where an auction transaction could be made from anywhere on the planet, as humans we find enjoyment in many other things only beautiful warm weather afford. So for those types of lower grade you've listed, this becomes magnified. You would have gotten more in March, or, if you waited, mid-September.
I'd like to know how Luxor's thread got derailed into.... if you use certain venues to sell you're not going to get issued a 1099 and the people who use those venues do so because they are crooked tax cheats with premeditation.
You don't read enough threads. The footprints are in this thread and spread across numerous other threads.
I've read every thread for 20 years FYI except the parking lot damage threads and those by single digit newbies. We need an OFFICIAL DERAILER Award winner annually.
Since you're familiar with the concept, you can make the awards.
Well, in this case, PerryHall baited the hook and MasonG jumped on it. Shall we split the award?
I didn't know that those who consign to auctions are tax cheats. Velly interesting.
Shows how the price of gold fluctuates from moment to moment just like stocks do. My quote was based on:
Quotes as of: 5/27/22 09:07 a.m. Basis Gold: 1852.80
Perry Hall is a very clever person. Don't let his remarks convince you otherwise. He knows what he's doing.
I dont think this type of auction route whether it be GC, HA stacks, whoever is the best place to sell generic gold, especially 20's. if you had one of the scarcer dates, then completely different story. you'd be better of selling them to one of the national dealers in the market that work on buy/sell spreads. I sell mine to HA directly, if I dont have a customer. One of my customers had a group of like 15 $10 Libs NGC 62-64's , he didn't like my price, basically I took what HA would pay me, took off 4% percent, and made a quote. He shipped them to auction instead, and actually netted a few dollars less than i offered him, and took 3 months of waiting to get the funds.
+1
CPG on the 1927 PCGS65 Saint is $2780. Netting $2100 is about 5 pct behind CDN Bid.
We can draw our own conclusions. I can understand your hoping for more.
It’s a very nice coin and and a good buy for someone at that. People have hyped up the market but the reality is what you realize at auction or off the bourse.
Many GC auctions I bid on there I lose bc of last second nuclear bidders. Others just put in my high bid hope for best.
Your friend can work on roughly a 20% spread on generic coins, like common date MS65 Saints?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A coin like that should never been consigned to auction unless required by a divorce, estate, etc.
It's not rare.
It has pretty established pricing.
It has lots of potential dealers and other buyers.
But, there is no "Wow" factor to the coin that would make people want to drive the price so far above wholesale.
I agree, he is good to do business with. Soon he will be running ads, "Top dollar paid, the King of Cash #3".
I consider myself a lottery winner if I can get to 10%. 5% is about all you can hope for with widgets like that.
GC serves it’s purpose. You send your items in, they get into the queue, and that’s it. If you want boutique service, use another auction.
Yes my friend works (or so he says) with 20 pct (buy 10 pct below CDN bid sell 10 pct above) spread (at least as a goal). But that does not mean somebody would not come down if haggling and big ticket item. However agree with a competitive bourse room 20 pct that seems tough IMV. So I concede that more of a happy result target number. I don’t necessarily do high priced generics. Competition likely have. More of a coin / currency mix. A $2000 generic I would be glad if even making 5 pct on it. Some generic Saint if in green on it if even just $20 profit I would probably take the sale / cash flow.
I try have material competition does not likely have. Say nice MS 66 Oregon 50c or Texas 50c or key coins. Low pop slabbed world too. Last show currency outsold coins. You never know. Two big spenders can make ones show.
The complaint wasn't the service but the price realized.
Perry Hall is a troll? Noted. Thanks for pointing that out.
No good can come of this...
You traded your coin for money?
I think you have this collecting thing backwards
My Saint Set
I'm in the Perry Hall camp. You guys should try the BST, or some of us, first.
That's a lot of skimming for a 65.
HE>I
Since when is an ms 65 Saint a widget. Is Laura slamming them ?
HE>I
Since the population of them reached 250,000 [PCGS approx 150,000; NGC approx 100,000].
They are more common than a lot of modern Mint issues. You would call those modern Mint issues widgets, wouldn't you?
If you netted $2,100 on that 1927 twenty in PCGS MS65, then you did well. The major market makers for pre-33 generic gold are currently paying right around $2,200 for the P/N 65 Saints. If you came to our office to sell the same coin, we would have offered around $2,100 because we would want to make $100 to handle the transaction.
This is why one can frequently do better selling directly to a collector on the BST.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I wonder.
First of all, you can sell directly to the market maker (including SB) for close to $2200. If a BST buyer had bought it from GC, it would have cost $2390. That leaves a $200 gap. So, if the BST buyer wants to pay $2300 (IF!!!), then there's $100 to be made for which the seller takes on all the risk while giving up any chance of the coin being bid up during the auction.
Personally, I would have sold to the market maker at $2170 and stayed away from BST and the auction house.
The BST is FREE!!! If the BST doesn't work, you can always take the low-ball offer from some dealer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
To be fair, often, the so-called "low-ball" offer from the dealer isn't really low-ball and at the same time, better than what's offered on the BST.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Free is only useful if it nets you more money. It is simply not clear to me that it will net much more, if anything. Your talking about maybe $100 difference, if there's even a halfway motivated buyer.
I think it is far more likely that the BST buyers want to be at the same $2200 number.
Please don't forget that dealers are always evil and collectors are generous angels.
[Even though half of the BST shoppers are at least part time resellers.]