1871 CC Seated $1 with added mint mark on Ebay
mbogoman
Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
This coin looks like it has a crudely added mint mark. It doesn't match the shape nor positioning of any known 1871 CC, of which there is only one reverse die. I contacted the seller with my suspicions 3 days ago but have been ignored. Take a look, and if you agree, report it. It's already up to $2025 with a little more than a day to go.
https://ebay.com/itm/265699817597?hash=item3ddcf1787d:g:PDoAAOSwP9ZihswR
Pic for posterity:
mbogoman
Asesabi Lutho
2
Comments
good catch, easily verified by going to the Cushing & Osburn site seateddollarvarieties.com/1871-CC-OC1.shtml
I reported it and messaged the seller.
Put a CC on it and you can more $.
** It's already up to $2025 with a little more than a day to go.**
As if buying common date raw seated dollars isn’t risky enough….
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are you technically proficient enough in seated $1 to answer a question? it isn't really about the coin in the op.
Great coin
Not really. I collect CC dollars. I just saw this one sticking out like a sore thumb, and knowing that there is only one known reverse for the 1871-CC I thought it deserved attention.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
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ok. thanks and good job!
Maybe @burfle23 can help get this one removed.
May end up relisted so keep an eye on the seller.
Not a series I look much into. With the ok quality photos, I wouldn't think it's an added mm. Thanks for the lesson
Reported.
Collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
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For reference purposes, here is the reverse of my 1871-CC Seated $1. You can see the difference in the mint mark size, shape and location:
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Reported.
Coin Photographer.
Wow.... The mint mark definitely looks fake there.... Still up, and bid $3204..... Cheers, RickO
Ends tonight at 7:44 EST. Seller sent me a reply saying "thanks, will address." No action so far that I can see.
go bid on it then retract your bid. lol
All someone needs to do is place a nuke bid and win and then don't pay.
No refunds to worry about and ebay can't get mad at you for not paying for a counterfeit item that has been reported to them.
How could you be a non-paying bidder once the listing is removed from ebay's system?
I received the same reply.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Clearly the seller is dishonest and has no plans on ending the auction.
I have done it many times.
Calling @burfle23 , @lkeigwin or anyone else that can help the time is running out on this one.
Four hours to go on a long weekend. I doubt ebay will react in time. Still, there are measures ebay takes after an auction closes on a fake coin.
I'll see what can be done.
Lance.
I am told the auction is slated to be taken down but that the app that terminates listings is acting up. So the auction may end on time, unfortunately.
At least ebay is aware and will likely act even after the auction closes.
Lance.
Thanks, as always, Lance.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Good catch, but I cannot believe the bids!
While the listing’s pictures could be much better, they appear to show a mintmark that’s very different from those seen on genuine 1871-CC’s.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Real and the OP's fake.
Lance.
even allowing for damage to the mintmark, the C's are too closely spaced, and their alignment is incorrect compared to genuine examples.
I guess, when in reply to messages from forum members, the seller said “..will address”, he meant that he would “address” the package to the high bidder.😉
👎
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What puzzles me is the bids. With only a little over 100 estimated out there, how could someone who might "need" one for their collection be so ignorant of the diagnostics of a genuine example? One would assume it would be going into an advanced set. Maybe it's new money. I don't know. But it also says something that the coin isn't in plastic. I think the seller, who is a fairly large dealer from the looks of it, knows exactly what he has.
As I said before, everything is wrong about the mint mark - the size, the shape, the position. It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned, that's why I brought it up in the first place.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Presumably, those who are bidding aren’t collectors who “need” one for their sets. But rather, they’re unknowledgeable bidders, who know that the date is rare, but are clueless about the diagnostics of genuine examples. My guess is that the coin will sell for (what looks like) a bargain price to one such bidder. Or that it will sell to a knowledgeable forum member, who’s watching out for others.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
for anyone with multiple accounts, you can use an inactive account, change the name, addy, number etc to bid on items like this and win them so no one else can. i used to do this a TON.
i remember a couple times the results ended so high, they ended up on the ebay homepage highlights.
The know-it-alls are not responsible for explaining the coin. The person who makes the claim ("no evidence of being struck") is.
Then if the seller goes through with the sale, there's intent to defraud, and not the cover of "I didn't know it was fake." Report it to ACEF anti-counterfeiting task force.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
You were given an explanation (along with a photo) in the original thread. Interestingly enough, you never responded there.
I am sure the seller knows it is counterfeit by now...
The bidders/Winner all are hoping to win the lottery....
For purposes of accuracy, I’d refer to the coin as having an added mintmark, as opposed to a counterfeit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
They messaged and said they cancelled the sale as they were made aware it was counterfeit less than 24 hours prior to the auction ending which you apparently can’t cancel. Nice work to all involved.
here are a couple for review if anyone is good here with this type of foreign silver
https://www.ebay.com/usr/nevadacoinjewelry?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2559
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333828373056
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265699559206
Better for the world coin forum and/or a different thread?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mark Feld, yes you are likely technically correct… the coin may be an actual Seated Dollar and my comment about being counterfeit inaccurate the end result will be the same… a week, a month, a year, 10 years from now… a very unhappy numismatist….all so very sad…. Another disillusioned hobbiest… and the ruin of our grand past time….Semantics aside I messaged him and got the same answer as everyone else…. Does it matter that the host coin is legit? We as stewards of the hobby must fight tooth and nail to defend it….
Looks like the auction got killed.
Lance.
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from the seller of the coin in the OP.
I saw that, but they aren’t U.S. coins. And however good anyone here is with world coins, chances are probably better on the world coin forum.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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it was also to possibly show a pattern with the seller so keeping all the coins together for now and for posterity made more sense.
i can see someone accidentally listing a fake from time to time, especially with earlier mm coinage but if they are just disregarding the possibility and willfully, negligibly and illegally continually listing this type of stuff, then more measures need be taken, for whatever good it will do anyway.
seems a lot of time here people use their maturity to contact a seller before throwing down the guilty hammer, not a bad approach BUT if a little research shows they only remove a listing(s) to stay out of the spotlight, a little research can go a long way.
although now i think about it (thanks), i will go ahead and put the ebay account name in my post above for search in the future.
The listing was removed...
But not before it went to "sold." Does eBay notify the buyer and block or reverse the sale when this happens? Look for it to show up again.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution