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What’s your opinion on coins with CHOPMARKS
Lalo_Salamanca
Posts: 12 ✭
Do you like them? Or consider them damaged?
1
Lalo_Salamanca
Posts: 12 ✭
Lalo_Salamanca
Posts: 12 ✭
Lalo_Salamanca
Posts: 12 ✭
Lalo_Salamanca
Posts: 12 ✭
Do you like them? Or consider them damaged?
Comments
Both.
It's part of their history as circulating money.
I'm just worried about fake chopmarks..
Well said homie
They're post-mint damage, but they're marks from their intended use in commerce. They're similar to postmarks on stamps.
They're also a coupon for 60% off on late 1850s San Francisco mint coins.
1857-S WB3 "Blundered date"
Love em!!! In addition to the cool history behind them it's a great way to collect a series where every coin is truly unique.
I consider them damaged, and I have no desire to collect damaged coins, be they chopped or man made "mint errors".
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Absolutely love that Seated Half! Wonderful example of 1857-S.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
I like the history. Chopmarks were an indication of their intended use for commerce in Asian markets. I'm considering one for my box of 20 Denominations set...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Thanks! It's one of my favorite purchases last year. I had just lost an eBay auction for a 57-S in P40 that closed at $1470 when I spotted this coin for $399. I like the circulated cameo look of this coin much better than the EF40, and it's a WB3 "blundered date" (R4), which is cool. To me, the chopmark tells a story and doesn't detract at all from the look of the coin.
IMHO they are post mint altered and shouldn't straight grade only details grade.
Is PCGS or NGC straight-grading chopmarked coins now?
The slabs I've been looking at indicate "Chop Marked" on the slab...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Do they give the Sheldon numerical grade as well?
Yes! I found out the answer to my question.
I believe PCGS has been for about a decade... Not sure about NGC?
PCGS will ONLY straight grade Trade Dollars...all other coins are Details-Chopmarked.
NGC will Details grade all chopmarked coins including trade dollars.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
When I was a kid there were Coin World ads with chopmarked trade dollars selling for $18 each as they were considered "culls". I am unable to think of them as anything but damaged coins
Commems and Early Type
Right!
How about one better... just keep em raw.
Garbage can full of cracked out chopmark
Slabs 😅
I just plain don’t like them at all. I also consider them as post mint damaged and should not straight grade.
JMHO
Edited to add- Why in the hell did the Chinese smack these coins with a punch or a hammer? Does that negate them from being used again? I don’t get it. Why didn’t they just throw them in the till like other moneys? Seems like a stupid way to receive coins.
I am uneducated on these but I’ve never like trade dollars so there’s that.
Love the history behind these coins!
See my registry set, with a link below.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
They are some of the most historically interesting coins in the hobby from my perspective. So few coins with the possible exception of shipwreck coins have such a straightforward commercial trackability that brings their history to life. While there are attractive chops and ugly chops, people get too caught up in "if they graded or not". They are not straight graded, they are chop mark graded and in pricing which is the real grade, it is absolutely consistently noted.
It should also be noted the Chinese market is waking up to the historical connection to their history and like all collectibles, having multiple degrees of interested collector pools is never a bad thing.
Here is a really cool Instagram site hosted by our own @OriginalDan all about cool chopmarks
https://forums.collectors.com/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=https%3A%2F%2Finstagram.com%2Fchopmarkedcoins%3Figshid%3DYmMyMTA2M2Y%3D
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I am at a loss for what needs to be written in connection with the actual question... and the actual history in terms of international trade and the standards for such trade. Seems that there was clearly a need for a so-called international trade dollar... a trade dollar was issued by the UK, Japan and the US in an effort to capitalize on the trade in the orient.
The chop marks are a historical record of what transpired. If you do not like them... please feel free not to buy them. And in the process of not choosing to acknowledge them, PLEASE DO NOT SLAM THOSE OF US THAT CHOOSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE. And yes this needs to be capitalized to emphasize what is truly
important... The need for coinage to work on an international level. And if that means a chopmark to determine acceptance... well that is part of the process and the HISTORICAL RECORD.
For those of you that want to complain about PMD take the argument somewhere where you might find a sympathetic ear
Edited to add:
The TPG companies that have acknowledged grading chopmarked Trade Dollars... among other coinage... made the best decision possible. And the label... without question... should acknowledge and reference the chopmark. Finally there should be a separate population for chopmarked coins
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
No go
The hobby has certainly changed over time. Not too long ago counterstamped coins were considered damaged culls and thrown in junk boxes, now they are highly collected as exonumia and for their historical value and people pay hundreds for certain counterstamps. Contemporary counterfeits were junk box material if even sold at all for any price, now people pay hundreds (and in some cases even thousands) for certain ones. IMO a chopmark is very different from say, a gouge or a hole drilled through a coin. Not everyone has to agree with me though.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
On Trade Dollars, chopmarks add character and historical interest, IMO. I’d actually pay a premium for an example with a small number of well-placed chops. I understand the opposing viewpoint though, which is totally legitimate.
Edit: I love your username @Lalo_Salamanca
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I think they are an extremely interesting part of numismatic history. Like some have already mentioned, there are attractive and ugly examples of chop marks. I would rather have a Trade$ with chop marks as without as long as they did not cause too much damage. I do agree that they are post mint damage but am also happy that PCGS will numerically grade them as long as the coin has no other problems. Here is one of my favorite chop marked coins that I own.
Does CAC sticker chopped Trades?
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Yes if eye appealing and well graded
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I actually started by trying to put together a circulated set of Trade Dollars. I purchased one that was chopmarked, just to have an example. I became so intrigued that I decided to put together two sets, one with and one without chopmarks. The set with chopmarks was so much more interesting than the non-chopmarked set, that I sold most of the non-chopmarked ones and worked on broadening and upgrading the chopmarked set. I am still working on it, and it is still fun, 20 years later.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
I like them a lot, been collecting them for about six or seven years. Started in US Trade Dollars, expanded to all US silver types, now enjoying the huge range of world types that can be found with the marks.
Even if you stick to US hosts, there's some cool range out there:
Not for me.
I was at a major coin show many years ago and there was an exhibition of chop marked coins. One coin in the display was a Liberty $10 gold coin with about a half dozen really small chop marks. I never saw anything like that and I still remember it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I was going to write a bunch of stuff, but @Crypto said it all already, quite well. I love the tangible connection to history and traceability. Lot more interesting than a coin sitting in a paper envelope in a drawer for 150 years, IMO. But I don't knock that sort of collecting. We all have different preferences.
I can report with confidence that over the past couple years, the interest and number of chopmarked coin collectors has grown a lot. Good for the hobby, bad for being able to buy them as cheap "damaged" coins.
>
I'm amazed by this 1870-CC Seated Liberty $ with chops. Thanks for sharing.
I personally don't collect chopmarks. If I understood certain chopmarks and their history or the history of the issuer, I'm sure I would appreciate them more. But for now, just at a glance, I would prefer coins without chopmarks.
CoinBlog.net
We're coin collectors. We romanticize the beauty and history of coins. It's why we do what we do.
The (mostly Asian) merchants who chopped coins in the 19th century didn't have the luxury of romanticizing coins. Coins, in the vast majority of cases, simply meant silver. Silver was money--the only money Chinese merchants accepted. Silver meant trade. Business.
This is a very specific form of damage intentionally administered under a particular set of circumstances, often received during the precise capacity for which these particular coins were created. For what other capacity were the US and English trade dollars minted? Cobs are literally a hunk of silver. 960 Reis are often simply overstruck 8 Reales.
And chops let you know the history of the coin. An 8 reale minted in Mexico City in the late 1700s might have traded locally, or even up and down our young but growing country, from the coast to the frontier. It's about 1,500 miles from New Orleans to New York.
But this 1784 8 reale made a 15,000 mile voyage--under sail--from Mexico City to Guangzhou and back, maybe by way of San Francisco. It might have made that trip many times. It earned each and every one of these bumper stickers.
--Severian the Lame
@Weiss gets it. 👍
I thought it would be cool to have one in my collection.
Here is my example.
Classic forum post!
In this case the chopmark base has presented some very thorough reports of the history of chopped coins, why they are being ever more eagerly sought out and have posted drool inducing and important examples..❤
I guess I personally lost interest in pretty, mint state coins (and sets of such) quite awhile ago and now see that area of collecting as exceedingly dull.
The history of coins is fascinating and individual coins with history of their own are the only ones that interest me anymore.
I'm only guessing, but I think maybe with collectors that strongly oppose these kind of coins,it might be because it threatens the very ingrained notion of pursuing "premium quality" and the best of the best..?
Interestingly, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that QDB at one point grew bored of his top shelf accumulation of PQ coins, sold them off to put together an amazing collection merchant counterstamped coins.
Could be wrong about that though...🤔
In one of his books, I believe that he stated he had a complete date set of chopmarked US Trade Dollars at one point as well.
I love this sentiment. Personally I've enjoyed tossing the concerns of plastic holders, perfect coins, "points" etc. Glad you're having fun with your coins @jayPem.
I will say that I still enjoy a nice gem trade dollar though. Just out of the business of spending my beach house money on coins.
I think of them as damaged but in a good way, they are important artifacts of economic history. And, Many of the chops are interesting in their own right.
Kids aren’t getting any younger
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Nice examples you guys posted
It's all about what you're looking for in an antique. If you collected vintage music posters, some people would prefer to have a mint example that stayed in the printer's back room for 50 years, others would prefer the torn, stained, and dogeared one taken off the wall of Madison Square Garden from opening night of their favorite group's first American tour.
Not sure about the facts about how it started but QDB had a large collection of counter marked tokens that sold via Stack’s not too long ago. Picked up several lots in that sale.
I personally enjoy the history of chopped coins and counter stamped coins. Lots of interesting stories in the research.
My Ebay Store
I agree completely with what Wiess, Crypto, Dan and many others have written. It is all about the history and the story of the coin. Most coins you can hold in your hand and wonder where they have been.
But with, for example, the 1875-CC Trade Dollar below, I know that this coin comes from silver mined in Nevada at the Comstock Lode, which was transported to Carson City. The coin was minted, then transported by horse and wagon from Carson City to Virginia City, then by rail to San Francisco, where it was loaded onto a ship headed for China. In China, it was assessed as good silver and used to purchase goods to ship back to American consumers. It circulated in Asia before eventually making it back to the U.S. Along the way, it somehow escaped the melting pot and remains evidence you can hold in your hand of U.S.-Asian international trade in the 19th Century.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
I like them. I occasionally get them on a hundred dollar bill.
Welcome to the board Lalo.....but.......you best watch out for Mike !
I find chop marked Trade Dollars interesting.... I did add one to my collection years ago and it is still a favorite of mine. Cheers, RickO
In one of his books, I believe that he stated he had a complete date set of chopmarked US Trade Dollars at one point as well.
I think it was in an interview for the Chop Mark News that QDB said that at one time he had put together a complete set of chopmarked Trade Dollars. He sold the collection at some point. I think it was referred to as the "New England Collection" if my memory is correct.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"