1884 CC MS67 today and yesterday
lilolme
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This 1884 CC MS67
Sold Sept 7,2018 at HA as a NGC 67 for $2640 (all in)
Sold today May 6, 2022 at HA as a PCGS 67 CAC for $9900 (all in)
So 3 1/2 years later in a better market and from NGC 67 to PCGS 67 CAC, but this is still a notable move up?
Thoughts?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
1
Comments
I think its a good time to be selling Morgan or Peace dollars ! Hard for me to believe these new prices will hold.We'll see...... Whats going on on the neck of that 67 dollar?
Just shows that some buyers are really into the kool-aid.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I think CCs and Morgans are hot right now (both, separately) and the combo pushed it way up.
It’s out of my league so I can’t comment on if there’s “value” in it at the recent price, but if it’s a primo coin with a good combo, at least two people with that kind of money agreed.
not trying to derail your topic of prices but that ms67 is just too glaring NOT to comment on.
w/o going off the deep end. stuff like this hurts the brand more than the occasional counterfeit that slips through the system. accidents happen but what happened here? the coin actually has lots of dings scattered from obv to rev, so i won't post them all. the point is made in just the 2 images below.
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/43591728
9900 is more than double price guide and this appears to be a run-of-the mill 67 at best. 2 bidders with stupid money is my only guess as to why.
I have a 66+ with fewer major issues…maybe I should send it in
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Those marks are just too obvious to make it a 67 let alone a 67 CAC. Graders must have been sleeping that day. I would give it a 65.
Collector
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https://www.legendnumismatics.com/product/1883-cc-1-dollar-morgan-pcgs-ms67-cac-2/
The 67 CAC from Legend is slightly better in my opinion and cost $2900 less
Not a 67 by my standards ... or a 66 either.
But it stickered.
Not a fan. Sell it to CAC. It has strong luster for a CC but that shouldn’t forgive the marks.
I have never seen a 67 like this before. - something doesn’t smell right
Pass for now, I don't like the chin and hits on the neck, jmo
If that's a 67, i have a few 68s in my collection.
Many successful BST transactions with dozens of board members, references on request.
Wow... A lot of marks for a 67 CAC.... And that hammer price is one heck of a jump. I know the market is up, but that seems like there were competing bidders looking for the grade and sticker. Cheers, RickO
65 max
It doesn’t look like a 67 to me but from the buyers perspective, especially if he/she is a registry player, the coin is now in a PCGS holder with a sticker. The coin hasn’t changed but the holder and a sticker are a big improvement.
Looks like it may be time for anyone out there with NGC 67 coins to crack them, send them to PCGS and then CAC. That's a huge price jump for the same coin in different plastic.
Coin Photographer.
I wouldn’t go that far. The coin is an anomaly. As I see it, the coin was given “extra credit” (for lack of a better term) for the blazing luster at the expense of the surfaces. You see this with eye appeal bumps for toning too. One component of mint state grading should (e.g. color/eye appeal and luster) should not be allowed to make up for large deficits in another (e.g. surface preservation).
I do agree that it was given extra credit - though at both services. In one company's plastic, it fetched a little over $7,000 more than the other's. I'm saying that PCGS plastic with CAC is the only reason this coin got that $7,000 bump, as it's the only thing that changed between the two sales. The coin was the same grade both times it sold.
Coin Photographer.
Cracking out high grade coins unless you’re an expert or a gambler is a very poor idea in general.
So my thoughts on the price.
The previous $2640 in 2018 would appear to be about $3500 plus today for a similar coin and a PCGS slightly more. The market appears to have moved up that much.
Now the CAC. There is less data but back in 2018 and some recent inventory indicated about a 2X factor for the 67 CAC versus 67. Like it or not that is what the cac market appears to be for this date and grade - it can vary for other grades and dates. So that indicated to me an expected auction price of $7000 or $8000 high end.
At $10K it seemed strong. I wondered was this a one and done, or would another, if it came up, sell similarly? I can say this, the dealer inventory is far smaller today for CC 67 cac. A couple plus years ago, could go find inventory to put together a short set (80/81 thru 85) white CC in 67 cac and many dates with multiple examples. Today... not so much. So I am not sure but this might be a new market price. I don't know but if so don't know how long it will hold up or go up.
So after looking at it, it was not as unexpected as it first appeared to me.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
The market is much hotter than 4 years ago. It's not just the plastic.
You're right. It does appear to be the CAC, not the plastic. It looks like the average for these coins in 67 is around $3,800 PCGS and NGC, so the CAC seems to be the driving factor of the nearly 10k price.
Coin Photographer.
The market and the holder for PCGS/cac, very strong. Without the marks focused on, would it be a 68?
Funny, I was also looking at this coin, then, I looked at the coin! What was everybody thinking on this one?
Like it was said earlier a few deep pockets came to play.
The rule still stands, buy the coin not the holder.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I agree. Not a 66 or 67 to me either.
Pocket Change Inspector
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hehe
i truly wish i could get through a go-round on this ball of dirt and only look as rough as her.
That's more than just bagmarks on the neck, there is actually a scratch. The luster is as good as it gets for a Morgan, but I agree, not a 67. Don't know how that stickered.
"You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."
This is a perfect example of someone buying a holder and not the coin.. People are paying stupid money for green stickers in todays market.
If someone bought a “holder and not the coin”, even with the CAC sticker, what’s your explanation for why they paid more than double PCGS price guide for it?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It has been that way for some time. Here’s another example: The same coin in the same PCGS OGH fetched 2.5x more by the addition of a green sticker when it sold one year later. There were no major changes in the market over that time, and even adjusting for venue, that is one pricey sticker.
1914-D PCGS MS65 $2.50 OGH, Stacks-Bowers, 01/11/2017, realized $10,281.25: http://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-6KVQO/1914-d-indian-quarter-eagle-ms-65-pcgs-ogh
1914-D PCGS MS65 $2.50 OGH CAC (exact coin, same plastic), Heritage, 03/2018, realized $26,401.20, http://coins.ha.com/itm/a/1273-3132.s
“Sticker rarity?” Only 45 in 67/67+ CAC between both services and 2 finer. That’s not many coins for such a popular series especially if you pretend the non-CAC coins don’t exist or all damaged problem coins as a number of the “CAC only” and even more plastic centric “PCGS-CAC only” crowds do. There are also “CAC only” subcategories in the PCGS registry now.
So many arm chair observers and comments here, wow, give it a break guys, this piece graded 67 at NGC, then it graded 67 at PCGS, and it beaned. How can some of you negate that fact? 65? 66? Seriously? So all the experts involved on all ends here messed up on all separate and unique occasions?
I highly doubt it.
This piece in hand must present, most likely as a superior example worthy of the grade.
Also, we all know magnified pictures can tell a wicked story.
Crazy money? yes.
Would I buy it? personally no.
But, it is possible someone here even bought and won this piece, so why trash it?
Pictures can hide things to be sure, but anyone familiar with the size and topology of a Morgan dollar knows roughly the 2D dimensions of the marks based on the percentage surface area damaged along the chin and lower neck. The real question is one of depth, but even if shallow, the marks are hard to swallow at that price and grade.
Of course, some of us shudder now at the 67 grade. Imagine our reaction if it ends up in a 68 CAC holder in an auction being marketed as THE Morgan Supernova with no significant chatter visible with a neutron microscope and blinding luster beaming from all angles for mid 5 figures to low 6 figures. Opportunity knocks loudly.
It is hard to deny that overall the coin is quite nice. A quick look at Coinfacts shows me that the area of the neck that looks so bad on this coin is also pretty bad on most every MS67 1884-CC in the same grade. The difference is that the OP coin seems to have way more overall marks for the grade. Someone explain to me what exactly the green CAC sticker means insomuch as it relates to where this coin fits into all MS67 graded coins of this date. I cannot see this as one of the best/better of all MS67 coins.
@Maywood
This is from the CAC website
https://www.caccoin.com/faq/
I noticed that CAC uses the term “premium quality” to describe coins that receive a CAC sticker. How does CAC define premium quality?
For many years, coin dealers and advanced collectors have used the letters A, B, and C among themselves to further describe coins. C indicates low-end for the grade, B indicates solid for the grade, and A indicates high-end. CAC will only award stickers to coins in the A or B category. C coins, although accurately graded, will be returned without a CAC sticker.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
I hate when they use the term “premium quality.” I’ve always understood that term to mean “high end” for the grade. A “B” coin is not PQ IMHO even though it warrants a CAC sticker based on the criteria announced on the CAC website.
I bought a lot of Morgans just within the last 3 years and prices have exploded.
An 1885-S OGH CAC retailed for $225 and I paid up @ $300, as I LIKED the coin. Same coin is $650 today!!
Paid $525 for a 1900-S in 64. They are about $1000, now!
Paid $150 each for an 1887-S and an 1897-S in OGH 63..........They are $300-$350, now.
Went to a show just 6 months ago and a 1902-S 64 CAC was $1000, when they were $750 not long ago, so I passed. Guess what?? The are almost $1500 now!!
Is this a bubble? If so, when will it burst? Have we even hit the ceiling yet?? Only TIME will tell, my friends....
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Agree a "B" coin is not PQ IMO. I think CAC backed off from using the term after they got flack for it when they started up, so surprised to see reference to "premium quality" in the FAQs. On the other hand, those FAQs appear to be dated, as they mention "gold recently rising to $800" in #1.
2 guys really wanted a 67 with CAC sticker and they bid it up. Would you pay double price guide for that coin? or wait until another came to market?
If you insist on the price guide, you are going to be unable to buy exceptional coins and you are going to overpay for some common coins. Guides tend to lag the market a bit. And guides for scarce coins are rarely going to be spot on.
And which guide? They don't always agree.