Should there be a premium for coins in rattlers?
Ppp
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I did it again. Someone on this forum warned me that rattlers are additive. I should have listened.
Below are two more I picked up recently. I usually buy off of the greysheet therefore how much of a premium, if any, would there be for coins in rattlers? Let’s use the two I just picked up as examples.
I believe the slabs are gen 1.2 for both.
4
Comments
I am only OK with a premium on rattlers if the coin inside warrants it.
As your examples above, the SD looks attractive although I am not sure about the area on the left obverse(residue?). I might be OK paying slightly above going rate for that one.
The Boone appears to have negative eye appeal and I would not consider that coin unless discounted.
Coins are sometimes left in rattlers for a reason.
Collector, occasional seller
Agreed, buy the coin not the holder
BHNC #203
I don’t buy slabs. I usually buy coins. I wouldn’t give any extra premiums for these, even if in an old slab.
My current registry sets:
20th Century Type Set
Virtual DANSCO 7070
Slabbed IHC set - Missing the Anacs Slabbed coins
I avoid rattlers and NGC prong holders. So, no premium from me!
I think PCGS OGH holders are worth a premium if the coin inside is compelling!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Thank you for your comments
Yes, I agree and I always look at the coin when buying. I have refused to buy many ms graded coins because I didn’t like their eye appeal.
My exceptions (like these coins) are when the coin (has to be silver) isn’t relatively a lot of money and the holder is a rattler (because I like the history and the noise). When I bought these I thought of the original question about premium thus the reason for my post.
🙂
I prefer my early Large Cents and IHCs to be in Rattlers. A lot of copper has been doctored --- dipped and re-toned. If copper still looks good after 30 years in a slab, I'm interested, and I'll pay a premium.
Dave
There should be a premium for some coins in rattlers, just like there should be a premium for some coins in every holder.
The trick, as they say, is to look at the coin.
There are gems in rattler holders, generally I think they were often conservatively graded. I think they are worth (and command) some premium.
Sometimes and for some metal types yes there is a premium for a rattler and it can be warranted. As with most things in life there are outliers on both sides of the curve.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I do think rattlers should have a premium, but it seems the premium that people are paying are way higher than it should be. They tend to be undergraded, so sometimes I have trouble telling whether the premium is because it's undergraded or because it's a rattler
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No, they certainly shouldn't have a premium.
On a different topic, I'm buying older holders at PCGS prices. 😉
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If you’ve got any original 108 white label rattlers …. well, the sky is the limit 🍺⭐️🍺 ….. but call me to buy before calling @Lakesammman 😆
This should be obvious, of course. Yet, there are those who create a collection goal that coins must be in a particular holder regardless of the coin quality. Such a preference would presumably maks the collection journey harder for certain holder types.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I agree with the old adage of "buy the coin, not the holder," however I do pay a premium for rattlers if the coins are accurately graded, and I do not crack them for resubmission. I like to preserve them for the sake of posterity.
The vintage slabs from all grading companies are part of our numismatic history and should be maintained for future generations to enjoy. 100 years from now collectors will likely cherish these archaic plastic tombs that can't even hold the coin properly. In a loose way, these peculiar slabs will be comparable to the vintage coin cabinets from the 1800s that we are so fascinated with today.
I don’t know about a premium, but I enjoy owning/buying them. If I’m at a shop or show and like two coins equally, I’ll probably buy one that’s in the rattler over a newer (non-TV) slab.
Interesting question that may have a much different answer depending on how the questions are framed...
Should a rattler holder have a premium depending on the surviving population of that rattler coin within various grade levels? It might be interesting to find an old...very old PCGS pop report... to get a better understanding of a specific coin's rattler population... I suspect the numbers might be surprisingly low. And then calculate with some type of rough justice formula how many may have been cracked out. Then compare a current pop report for the coin of interest and it would shed some light in the form of rough justice as to what percentage of rattlers there might be for a coin at the PCGS 65 level.
Just for fun and in an effort to illustrate my point, the earliest PCGS published pop report I have is from July 1994- which is likely around 5 years too late to capture only rattlers but it will at least help explain what I am trying to convey:
Connecticut Commem rattler population
population as of July 1994-- MS65- 504 MS66-140 MS67- 13
current population MS65-1409 MS66-705 MS67-124
My point is simply this... out of the 124 currently graded and lets reduce by 20% for crackouts (25) so lets use 100 as a rough justice number. Out of that 100, a number 13 have the potential to be in a rattler- using rough justice again- that number is probably in the 7-9 range if not lower...would reasonably be rattlers. So rough justice would be a PCGS rattler 67 for a CT commem likely makes up 7-9% at the most of the entire PCGS 67 population. Is that worth a premium? I would suggest a premium is reasonable.
Will there always be a premium? That answer is a simple NO.
What will be really interesting is if someone that participates here has an earlier PCGS Pop report closer to or at the time the rattler slab was discontinued.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
There seem to be two types of coins in rattlers.
The first: those that were adequate for their grade back in the day, but were probably never crack-out worthy and likely have no chance at an upgrade--if the upgrade would even cover the cost of the shipping, insurance, and slabbing fees. There's nothing wrong with these coins. They are what they are: accurately graded and authenticated by PCGS. But these scuffed and scratched survivors with faded labels seem to be in limbo--passed back and forth by those who think (or project) that coins in rattlers are somehow magical and deserve a premium price until they're finally cracked and returned at grade.
The second: those that were conservatively graded back in the day. A few so conservatively graded that modern graders would award them grades two, three, or even four points higher than their counterparts in the 1980s. It's a miracle these have survived nearly four decades without being cracked out. Pristine and glowing acrylic windows, bright colored paper with crisp printing. Squirreled away in long forgotten safe deposit boxes, ignored by heirs uninterested in the treasures within, or just existing in the collections of those unaware or uninterested in the crack-out game.
These jewels have become much more scarce. These are the ones that get my heart pumping. Like the old real estate adage: They don't make it anymore. Except for these, the populations decline every. single. day.
If only there was some way to designate, or maybe certify those unlikely few survivors that are exceptional. This deserves special recognition. This one has earned special treatment, a place of honor, a jealous glance, and maybe even a higher priced sticker.
--Severian the Lame
Agree. I buy the coin. I may have a preference in TPG but not going to pay extra for the generation of holder.
Pocket Change Inspector
Sort of wonder about older PCGS and NGC pop reports as information was obviously captured at a specific time which could be used to help estimate what percent of a specific coin's population at certain grade exist in a certain type of slab.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
This is a great take.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to try and determine whether rattlers "should" carry a premium. That's a subjective judgement that'll vary from collector to collector. The simple fact is that they generally do carry something of a premium.
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I'll pay a premium if in a white rattler - o/w the coin drives the price.
Should there be a premium?
No if I'm buying.
Yes if I'm selling.
Any dealer doing this is automatically considered scum. But you do you.
Should there be a standard premium for any coin in a rattler holder - No
Should a nice coin in a rattler get a premium - Probably or Yes
Should an average or common coin in a rattler get a premium - Maybe
I say maybe because some collectors will Value the entire package. Like a pedigree or part of a hoard or being tied to an event (maybe shipwreck), there are collectors that will want or or prefer coins in specific holders. Thus there can be a premium if the right buyer sees it at the right time.
I like the look of gold coins in OGHs. Will I pay a premium for them? I try not to, but if I see an ms61 or ms62 coin in an OGH(and it really is an ms61/62 by any standard) then I am more likely to by that than if the same coin was in a modern holder.
It will all depend on the coin in the holder. Although I may pay a slight premium for the cool older holder from time to time, most of the time I wouldn't for an average properly graded coin.
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I would pay a modest premium if it were a coin that I wanted but that's just me. I'm mostly a type coin collector and I bought a nice1938-D Buffalo nickel MS65CAC coin in a rattler slab from Weiss on the BST. A couple of weeks later, I bought a 1913 Type I Buffalo nickel MS65CAC coin in a rattler slab from eBay. I now have the first and last Buffalo nickel in matching rattler slabs in the same grade which I think is a very cool set.
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
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People collect everything from belly button lint to beer bottles... Collectors will pay a premium for something they value - those who do not collect such items will be amazed at how someone could spend good money for such 'junk'. I collect coins, will not pay a premium for holders or tarnish. That gives more opportunities for those who desire such things.
I have my hobbies and enjoy them. I do not begrudge others their interests. Cheers, RickO
If anyone has or finds any rattlers available at little to no premium... Please let me know as I want to buy them! Thank you!
Your examples of rattlers, both being classic commems, are currently (and in my opinion likely to remain) out of favor, as evidenced by their current market value at less than half of what they were when slabbed in the late 1980’s.
Many other series have advanced substantially in value since then. For those items, a nice coin in a rattler can enjoy, and deserve, a premium compared to a similarly graded coin in a newer holder.
I buy the coin, not the holder. Generally I don’t care for rattle holders. They don’t match the size of the more modern PCGS and NGC holders, they can rattle, annoys me.
The infamous double rattle!
I'll always pay up, if the coin is nice, regardless of the slab.
If the slab is cool, then that's a bonus.
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https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
The truth is there is a premium for premium/scarce/old holders but it starts at the quality of the coin within. A meh coin will have increased liquidity at meh price ranges while a premium coin goes up from the premium portion of the price scale.
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Rattlers aren’t scarce enough for me to pay a premium for. For the reasons BillJones mentioned, I’m not much of a fan of them either.
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i didn't read the whole thread so i may be reiterating but the obvious reason (to me) that rattlers and old holders should garner a premium is very simple logic; if the coin inside looks stable and has been for 20-30 years, should be for a long time to come, so long as it is stored properly.
people lose a lot of value by stuff happening to coins in newer holders that time has not tested yet.
Agree with those that have said If it contains undergraded coin it would be desirable.
No lol don’t like them at all bc coin rotates in holder. Rattlers do fit in the old Teletrade storage boxes. I only buy them (if cheap) to crack / submit for higher grade but been awhile as that hog already been slaughtered.
Furthermore rattlers been out there for decades, picked over so it’s now basically a mine that’s run out. Market insiders say Premium went out long ago. Occasionally buy some bc people see my “cash for coins” sign from my table. To keep it fair I offer bluesheet.