Idea for CAC on Reholder PCGS and NGC slabs.
retirednow
Posts: 546 ✭✭✭✭✭
I wish somehow CAC and PCGS /NGC would join forces and offer to automatically re sticker their holders with a CAC sticker when slabs are resubmitted for Reholder serives that had a CAC sticker - ( Not those for reconsideration or conserving services)
I have sent dozens with a CAC sticker back to PCGS and NGC to be reholder - mainly because the holders are scratched up or damaged (chipped edges). Of course one loses the CAC sticker in the process. While I can resubmit directly back to CAC to resticker for a nominal fee if the cert numbers are the same, the expense of mailing, time away in transit, and the bid concern is the RISK OF LOSS associated with mailing - can be nerve racking.
I would think that these firms could work a cooperative deal where PCGS/NGC could resticker certified/registered CAC coins on the behalf of CAC if the cert numbers remain the same (when they are reholder) at a same CAC cost plus a service fee. CAC will still get the appropriate fee and PCGS and NGC could get a nominal fee for the extra service. it could be a win win for every one.
I would think PCGS and NGC could put in place the safe guards for CAC to protect the integrity of the restickering services
Just something to think about.
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
I wake up with a Good Attitude Every Day. Then … Idiots Happen!
Comments
It would be nice and your method seems plausible. However, I don’t think any of the three consider it a big enough issue to tackle. Plus the possibility of something going wrong or an accusation of impropriety would make all three hesitant (especially if it’s not a profitable endeavor).
If I were CAC, I wouldn’t want stickers automatically reapplied by anyone else, for coins that had been removed from holders that had been stickered. And if I were PCGS and NGC, I wouldn’t want the responsibility of doing so, even if it were OK with CAC.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was told that on a re-sticker that cac does look at the coin to verify that nothing happened to it on the re-holder process. This would be something like a hairline scratch or other. I do know of people complaining that a coin got a hairline scratch on a re-grade/re-holder but don't have first hand evidence of it.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWVk0XeB9o - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Piece Of My Heart
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Or you could just refer people to the CAC database online to confirm the serial number matches… If a purchaser wants to buy it and assume the cost of doing so, as a seller I’d be happy to offer a guarantee that it will resticker for a 30 day period after purchase. I would not discount the coin or waste my money to pacify someone else’s OCD. If you are a collector holding a coin, you already have CAC verification thus the physical sticker shouldn’t be important enough to cause you stress.
Alternatively, PCGS and NGC could simply add CAC to the grade tag if the coin was sent for reholder, regrade, or reconsideration, where the grade was left unchanged and there was no conservation. The cert number could remain the same in such cases for regrade. (Presently, it gets a new number even without a grade change.) They would need to clear it with CAC due to property rights legal concerns of course though. The cert can be verified by potential buyers at caccoin.
There you go thinking outside the box, what were you thinking?
I'm with you on this!!
Instead of ALL the reasons that this wouldn't work I WISH all the naysayers here would devote there time and effort coming up with ways that could make this happen.
I'll brace myself for all the negitive comments coming!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
The “OCD” conclusion sounds harsh and likely unjustified in a great many cases. That aside, I could see the lack of the physical sticker making a meaningful difference to some potential buyers, particularly in the case of especially valuable coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It could work if the profit margins were right.
How much would you be willing to pay for such a service and how often would you use it?
Those two questions (answered by a large enough sample size) would go a long way towards deciding if it could happen.
You seem to be of the opinion that disagreeing with the OP is synonymous with being negative. In this case, I think it’s merely being realistic. Sure, from a submitter’s point of view, the idea would be great. But it doesn’t take the policies, responsibilities and liabilities of CAC, NGC and PCGS into account.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If you consider if you send in a coin for reholder with a CAC sticker I would be willing to pay a fee to have PCGS reapply the sticker. How much??? well, take this into account. Right now you would have to get the coin back from PCGS, then ship it off to CAC to get the sticker reapplied. Forget about the time involved, just think about the shipping costs and the worry of the coin(s) being in the mail! I believe CAC charges $3 for this now, so maybe another $3 for PCGS for the service and you're done. You just saved all the time and the shipping fee's, something I would be able to live with
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Has PCGS ever damaged a raw coin that was sent to them for grading?
What's in it for
PCGS
NGC
CAC
Nothing. Just more headaches.
I don't see them taking the risk for $3 extra. Let's say you were willing to pay $25 for the service and there were several hundred subs (if not several thousand) in a year, then you might get some breakthrough with this idea.
They are businesses they are in business to make money, this is just another way to do that.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I think that those in favor of such an idea have no idea or concept of the risks to the TPG and CAC of this idea. And honestly I don't think they care, their only concern is the convivence and cost savings to them not how it affects the business involved with this idea.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Mark
Lets look at this a different way. Right now PCGS has registry sets just for CAC coins. In order for you to add the coin in this set PCGS runs down the cert and verifies that the coin is CAC approved.
Same would apply here. Afetr they reholder the coin they could run it through CAC database and confirm that the coin is CAC approved and reapply the sticker.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Obviously, PCGS knows that after reholdering a coin with a sticker, the coin's owner is going to prefer to have a sticker on the new holder. And yet, they're not doing it. I'm guessing they have a reason, even if it's not publicly known.
This is way we are talking about it, to advocate change!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
That’s an entirely different situation. The OP’s idea involves coins that are being cracked out of holders and which could be damaged. It also requires that someone other than CAC apply their stickers, without CAC re-examining the coins, first.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm really glad the the innovators of the world didn't think like this!
We would still be driving horse and buggies.......
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Ground breaking idea here..
Take the sticker off yourself before sending off to reholder.
Here's the best part...when the coin comes back you put the sticker back on!
If you don't know why they're not doing it already, what makes you think you're in a position to competently advocate for change?
Don't give the bad guys any ideas..........
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Because I have the right to express my thoughts and ideas!
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
You have whatever rights PCGS permits you on their forum.
Oh the Pain!
The easy solution, of course, is not to be concerned with the CAC sticker in the first place.
And what makes you think that I have violated any PCGS policies here?
I'm just expressing my ideas, oh my, sit down when you read this one, "thinking outside the box"
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
??? Who said that? Not me.
Please, when you quote my statement copy the whole statement, sometimes things are taken out of context.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
At least this CAC thread has a bit of originality.
Smitten with DBLCs.
I quote the part I'm responding to. The rest of your comment is irrelevant to what I have to say.
MasonG
BTW, I bet my buddy $10 that you would comment on my post on this subject, I also doubled it by saying that you would quote me..............
Thanks, $20 richer now.............
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
This sounds like a winner.
Why? With the specialized equipment the services have and the expedited nature of the express tier, I’d imagine the opportunities for the coin to become damaged would be quite small. What would you estimate would be the damage rate? 1/1,000? 1/10,000?
Semi serious question: Since originality is a favored concept among classic collectors and there is nostalgia for older TPG plastic, is there also a premium for having the “original” sticker? I’ve never really paid attention, but are there generations of CAC stickers too? I could see something subtle like the angle of tilt required to illuminate the sticker.
I also think that the chances of damage would be extremely slim. But just because someone would feel more comfortable with the actual sticker on the holder, rather than having a record of it, doesn’t necessarily have to have anything to do with OCD.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Fair point… Would you settle for paranoia or phobia? 🤣
And what would make anyone think that any grading company or company that puts on additional stickers are interested in what saves collectors time or money? They are in business to make money not because collectors want to save money. Never lose sight as to the fact that MONEY is the motivator. I don't make this statement as a negative comment to any company. Its business.
Al
Easy tiger
I saw another thread here today where the coins had blue CaC stickers.
Had them damage an already graded pcgs coin (which had to subsequently downgrade afterwards)
I don’t see why PCGS can’t return the CAC sticker back to the submitter. They returned me the NGC insert label with the grade. This way I could try and re-affix it. It’s as easy as that, problem solved.
Seems like a good reason for CAC to not agree with PCGS/NGC putting CAC stickers on reholdered coins.
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Having spent a career in business, let me say this - Each business is a separate entity, each with standards and a reputation to maintain. Mistakes happen - we have seen label errors many times, and disagreed with grades as well. Obviously CAC does not sticker all coins submitted and the TPG's occasionally change grades on resubmittals. It would not be good business to entrust another entity with one's authority and approval. Cheers, RickO
@Joey29 said:
It’s not nearly as easy as that and problem not solved. CAC labels are designed not to be able to be removed and reaffixed to holders. And understandably, CAC doesn’t want NGC, PCGS or anyone else attempting to do so.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Would be nice for the one submitting but I can't see CAC being ok with it.
Pocket Change Inspector
why not simply ask CAC their opinion on this?