@Elcontador said:
My own small world tells me that they are stickering fewer coins I am sending in now than I did three years ago. I send in nice material. That's it.
What do you think is the reason?
I've looked at your amazing coins, hard to believe
I admit it!!!!!
I choose to not have coins in my collection that are "C" coins, or have had certain post mint treatments to its surfaces that are acceptable to the TPG's, but not acceptable to CAC.
These are choices we make as individual collectors forming our collections around our chosen criteria, I understand that can't disagree with the concept. You premised your original statement on some presumed list that was made available to us, but since that list isn't yet available I'd have to think you're missing coins on a faulty presumption. Also, I don't see PCGS, NGC and CAC as being infallible. They all validate coins that have been dipped or altered in some fashion, though admittedly those instance are lessened with each step in the encapsulation/stickering process.
How can you know a coin is a "C" coin if you don't look at because there's no CAC sticker?
I’m not quite following your point about a presumed list that sounds like I implied is available, but is not yet available. I’d appreciate clarification.
I agree the coins I’m missing out on are high grade coins that would merit a CAC but don’t have one due to having never been submitted. In the past, I’ve bought a few of these, submitted them, and as I recall, about half got approved. Selling the others that failed cost me more than I’m presently willing to risk. Yes, I pay going prices for CAC’d coins, but I’m comfortable with that, as it’s basically risk free.
I agree mistakes are made in the subjective opinions of PCGS, NGC, and CAC too. However, I pass on the majority of coins I need/want that have CAC’s, simply because I personally don’t like the eye appeal.
Just because a coin was gently dipped does not mean that’s an error by the TPG’s and/or CAC, which is your clear implication, when you say they are not infallible, and then use dipping as your example. None of the TPG’s or CAC say they will grade (or sticker) only coins that are fully “original”. That’s a misconception that you shouldn’t accept.
How do I know a coin without a CAC sticker is a “C” coin without even looking at it? I don’t know that, and I don’t say that. What I say about coins without a CAC is it’s probably either a “C” coin, OR it’s surfaces have had post mint treatment that the TPG’s accept but CAC does not accept, OR that the coin has not yet been submitted to CAC. As I explained in #2 above, in the latter case I choose to no longer accept the financial risk of buying a non CAC coin and figuring it’ll CAC.
My question to you - are you comfortable having many coins in your collection where you like the eye appeal, but the coins are “C” coins, or have had their surfaces “messed with”, even though those particular treatments are acceptable to the TPG’s, but not to CAC? If so, great! We should each collect what we like to collect. There’s no right or wrong.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
I think they make too big a deal here about CAC. At recent show setup only guy that had CAC had 2 cases of slabbed coins one nothing but USGTC. Probably just 4 or 5 out of both cases CAC. The show was a blockbuster for me profit wise most of the sales WPM. In slabbed coins Mexico low pop lead the way. A Mexico MS 70 Silver Libertad in a beautiful yellow ANACS holder went for $85. For some reason this issue way up vs slabbed USA ASE. Some graded WPM of mine also sold /bringing really good margin. My focus is stuff can get a deal on and sell at good margin.
@Maywood said: I pass on all of those non-CAC coins unless I’m willing to have that coin in my collection knowing that it doesn’t merit a CAC. a coin they examine and not give a sticker can indeed be properly graded, but just not solid for the grade.
It seems to me that if CAC has prevented anyone from buying what are properly graded coins, or even considering them closely, that CAC has somehow affected that TPG's brand. It is the phenomenon that has bothered and intrigued me ever since the inception of this service: that small green or gold sticker now has a pre-eminent position in the marketplace, seemingly more important than the TPG or even the coin itself. There are probably legions of collectors who can't admit it, even to themselves, but the CAC sticker is the deciding factor in purchases.
Well in the end, the CAC sticker is just a way of documenting a second opinion. Fundamentally there is nothing wrong with that.
As far as only buying CAC coins, I think it is foolish overall. Again back to my spectrum or the A, B, and C tier coins. The only thing the sticker should do is help you decide how much to pay and keep you from paying A money for a C coin. There's nothing wrong with a C coin, especially if you can't afford the A coin. Some collectors would prefer otherwise, but I'd rather have an MS63 slab that I agree with that doesn't CAC than an MS62 CAC.
Edited to add: Wouldn't it be a hoot if NGC or PCGS started slabbing the other's slabs (ie, PCGS would encapsulate an NGC slab)? That would be almost the same thing as CAC although the second TPG wouldn't be able to actually handle the coin but you'd get two numeric grades.
How do you know the PCGS C coin doesn’t have pvc or high point friction or putty or some other issues , just not only solid for the grade?
How do you know a CAC coin hasn’t gone bad in the holder? I have noticed posters talking like ABC coins are absolutes (or the sticker) lol but that simply isn’t true at all. There is much subjectivity (matter of taste) involved in that process. Just like in a bikini contest one persons taste may not match mine. No I am not going to pay more for somebody else’s taste if I don’t think the coin PQ.
As far as I'm concerned I will except all the experts help on grading coins. It's a science for sure. I admit there are a few coins with CAC stickers that I passed on because they didn't pass my inspection, but all in all a very few. If you're going to "invest in coins" better to have all the help and tools available to you to help make a decision on a coin. I've been collecting for over 65 years and still would relay on the experts.
@Elcontador said:
My own small world tells me that they are stickering fewer coins I am sending in now than I did three years ago. I send in nice material. That's it.
What do you think is the reason?
I've looked at your amazing coins, hard to believe
Trying not to offend anyone, I think a business acts differently when it is establishing its brand than when it is functioning in a mature industry. Just as the TPGs have changed grading standards over time - one example is the 5% RD would get Unc. copper in a RB holder that quietly went away 20 + years ago - perhaps this is the case with CAC.
JA will make an offer on any CAC stickered coin. It may not be the top offer, but he will make one. Perhaps CAC is getting more picky on which coins it will make an offer? I am a minnow in this ocean and I have no idea, but it's a thought.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
Comments
What do you think is the reason?
I've looked at your amazing coins, hard to believe
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
strong for the grade-worth a premium
solid for the grade-not worth a premium
c coins-discount
imo
I admit it!!!!!
I choose to not have coins in my collection that are "C" coins, or have had certain post mint treatments to its surfaces that are acceptable to the TPG's, but not acceptable to CAC.
These are choices we make as individual collectors forming our collections around our chosen criteria, I understand that can't disagree with the concept. You premised your original statement on some presumed list that was made available to us, but since that list isn't yet available I'd have to think you're missing coins on a faulty presumption. Also, I don't see PCGS, NGC and CAC as being infallible. They all validate coins that have been dipped or altered in some fashion, though admittedly those instance are lessened with each step in the encapsulation/stickering process.
How can you know a coin is a "C" coin if you don't look at because there's no CAC sticker?
@Maywood , I’m enjoying our conversation.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I'd rather have an MS63 slab that I agree with that doesn't CAC than an MS62 CAC.
My concern would be paying a MS63 price for a coin that may well be a MS62 CAC.
I think they make too big a deal here about CAC. At recent show setup only guy that had CAC had 2 cases of slabbed coins one nothing but USGTC. Probably just 4 or 5 out of both cases CAC. The show was a blockbuster for me profit wise most of the sales WPM. In slabbed coins Mexico low pop lead the way. A Mexico MS 70 Silver Libertad in a beautiful yellow ANACS holder went for $85. For some reason this issue way up vs slabbed USA ASE. Some graded WPM of mine also sold /bringing really good margin. My focus is stuff can get a deal on and sell at good margin.
How do you know the PCGS C coin doesn’t have pvc or high point friction or putty or some other issues , just not only solid for the grade?
How do you know a CAC coin hasn’t gone bad in the holder? I have noticed posters talking like ABC coins are absolutes (or the sticker) lol but that simply isn’t true at all. There is much subjectivity (matter of taste) involved in that process. Just like in a bikini contest one persons taste may not match mine. No I am not going to pay more for somebody else’s taste if I don’t think the coin PQ.
As far as I'm concerned I will except all the experts help on grading coins. It's a science for sure. I admit there are a few coins with CAC stickers that I passed on because they didn't pass my inspection, but all in all a very few. If you're going to "invest in coins" better to have all the help and tools available to you to help make a decision on a coin. I've been collecting for over 65 years and still would relay on the experts.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Trying not to offend anyone, I think a business acts differently when it is establishing its brand than when it is functioning in a mature industry. Just as the TPGs have changed grading standards over time - one example is the 5% RD would get Unc. copper in a RB holder that quietly went away 20 + years ago - perhaps this is the case with CAC.
JA will make an offer on any CAC stickered coin. It may not be the top offer, but he will make one. Perhaps CAC is getting more picky on which coins it will make an offer? I am a minnow in this ocean and I have no idea, but it's a thought.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."