How? New "top pop" 1874 T$

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stealer
stealer Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭
edited April 18, 2022 3:28PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Context: NGC MS67+ 1874 T$

I saw this coin listed on GC a few days ago without any images, and was looking forward to seeing images of it as the only other coin in this grade level is the 67 from the Legend set, which is a killer coin.

Fast forward to today and they list images of the coin:

I keep looking at it thinking "man, I've seen this coin before somewhere, and it definitely wasn't in a 7+ holder...". I dig around for a few minutes, looking at 66 auctions, even 65.

Then I remembered seeing this coin on GC a few months prior and...the graders at NGC must be on something. They're a tad late for April Fools...

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  • LanceNewmanOCC
    LanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2022 2:54PM
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    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • stealer
    stealer Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2022 3:01PM
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    @Flatwoods said:
    Deciphering GC pics is an art form.
    Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

    Same with TrueViews.

    I'm well aware of this as my "edge" in the market is buying raw coins on eBay and getting them graded, and selling it as such, and do decently well at it.

    This is another level to make a new top pop coin, especially when it is very blatantly undeserving of it...

  • Flatwoods
    Flatwoods Posts: 4,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @stealer said:

    @Flatwoods said:
    Deciphering GC pics is an art form.
    Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

    Same with TrueViews.

    I'm well aware of this as I do almost all of my coin buying and selling on eBay, and do decently well at it.

    This is another level to make a new top pop coin, especially when it is very blatantly undeserving of it...

    I won't argue that point.
    It looks better than 64 to me though

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @stealer said:
    Context: NGC MS67+ 1874 T$

    I saw this coin listed on GC a few days ago without any images, and was looking forward to seeing images of it as the only other coin in this grade level is the 67 from the Legend set, which is a killer coin.

    Fast forward to today and they list images of the coin:

    I keep looking at it thinking "man, I've seen this coin before somewhere, and it definitely wasn't in a 7+ holder...". I dig around for a few minutes, looking at 66 auctions, even 65.

    Then I remembered seeing this coin on GC a few months prior and...the graders at NGC must be on something. They're a tad late for April Fools...

    What did it bring in the 64 holder?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • DelawareDoons
    DelawareDoons Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • oih82w8
    oih82w8 Posts: 13,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    "I informed you thusly" ATS seems to be looser on their grades than our host.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • stealer
    stealer Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:

    @stealer said:
    Context: NGC MS67+ 1874 T$

    I saw this coin listed on GC a few days ago without any images, and was looking forward to seeing images of it as the only other coin in this grade level is the 67 from the Legend set, which is a killer coin.

    Fast forward to today and they list images of the coin:

    I keep looking at it thinking "man, I've seen this coin before somewhere, and it definitely wasn't in a 7+ holder...". I dig around for a few minutes, looking at 66 auctions, even 65.

    Then I remembered seeing this coin on GC a few months prior and...the graders at NGC must be on something. They're a tad late for April Fools...

    What did it bring in the 64 holder?

    $3200, pretty standard non-CAC 64 money.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @stealer said:

    @MFeld said:

    @stealer said:
    Context: NGC MS67+ 1874 T$

    I saw this coin listed on GC a few days ago without any images, and was looking forward to seeing images of it as the only other coin in this grade level is the 67 from the Legend set, which is a killer coin.

    Fast forward to today and they list images of the coin:

    I keep looking at it thinking "man, I've seen this coin before somewhere, and it definitely wasn't in a 7+ holder...". I dig around for a few minutes, looking at 66 auctions, even 65.

    Then I remembered seeing this coin on GC a few months prior and...the graders at NGC must be on something. They're a tad late for April Fools...

    What did it bring in the 64 holder?

    $3200, pretty standard non-CAC 64 money.

    Thank you.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • TwoKopeiki
    TwoKopeiki Posts: 9,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    So, for all the non-US collectors, what's the price difference between the grades? (Whether deserved or not)

    Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
  • Yorkshireman
    Yorkshireman Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @TwoKopeiki said:
    So, for all the non-US collectors, what's the price difference between the grades? (Whether deserved or not)

    Have you checked CoinFacts?

    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
  • DelawareDoons
    DelawareDoons Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @TwoKopeiki said:
    So, for all the non-US collectors, what's the price difference between the grades? (Whether deserved or not)

    Probably a $30000 coin now.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • stealer
    stealer Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭
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    @TwoKopeiki said:
    So, for all the non-US collectors, what's the price difference between the grades? (Whether deserved or not)

    If it was a "true" 7+, the sky would probably be the limit. The last APR was a PC66 (that upgraded to 6+) which sold for $63k in 2019.

    In other words, an absolutely offensive upgrade.

  • DelawareDoons
    DelawareDoons Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @stealer said:

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    So, for all the non-US collectors, what's the price difference between the grades? (Whether deserved or not)

    If it was a "true" 7+, the sky would probably be the limit. The last APR was a PC66 (that upgraded to 6+) which sold for $63k in 2019.

    In other words, an absolutely offensive upgrade.

    Yeah there's no way this sells for that money tho. Maybe 40 if some folks really like it.

    I think there is a question of if NGC calls it a mechanical error or if they stand by it.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • jt88
    jt88 Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That's why you need to pay discount on some of the NGC graded coins. I know some people don't like to hear it but that's fact.

  • SIowhand
    SIowhand Posts: 370 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Went from under-graded to over-graded

  • NumisOxide
    NumisOxide Posts: 11,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That is quite the upgrade. 3+ points

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jt88 said:
    That's why you need to pay discount on some of the NGC graded coins. I know some people don't like to hear it but that's fact.

    With the volume of coins that are graded every month, even if they do a great job, every company under-grades and over-grades more than a few.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jt88
    jt88 Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:

    @jt88 said:
    That's why you need to pay discount on some of the NGC graded coins. I know some people don't like to hear it but that's fact.

    With the volume of coins that are graded every month, even if they do a great job, every company under-grades and over-grades more than a few.

    Sure but NGC over graded a lot compare with other companies. SB send all the raw coins to PCGS because SB knows PCGS graded coins gets more loves by bidders. But I also want to be fair with NGC, they generally do a great job on modern coins. I heard from many buyers that they like NGC graded modern coins.

  • DelawareDoons
    DelawareDoons Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:

    @jt88 said:
    That's why you need to pay discount on some of the NGC graded coins. I know some people don't like to hear it but that's fact.

    With the volume of coins that are graded every month, even if they do a great job, every company under-grades and over-grades more than a few.

    It's one thing to overgrade a coin. It's an entirely nother thing to create an uber conditional rarity outta thin air. How many BS trades are graded 67 or better at both services across all dates?

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • ThreeCentSilverFL
    ThreeCentSilverFL Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2022 5:07PM
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    Ugly. Eye Appeal trumps.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @DelawareDoons said:

    @MFeld said:

    @jt88 said:
    That's why you need to pay discount on some of the NGC graded coins. I know some people don't like to hear it but that's fact.

    With the volume of coins that are graded every month, even if they do a great job, every company under-grades and over-grades more than a few.

    It's one thing to overgrade a coin. It's an entirely nother thing to create an uber conditional rarity outta thin air. How many BS trades are graded 67 or better at both services across all dates?

    I don’t disagree with that, but I was replying to the post I quoted.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jt88
    jt88 Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Also how come that ngc coin did not has a photo on ngc site? It is not a old holder. It should has a photo.

  • tradedollarnut
    tradedollarnut Posts: 20,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    And this is why I don’t collect series any more. Pffft

    Early Dollar Set
  • FlyingAl
    FlyingAl Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    There's a good chance this one gets the "mechanical error" treatment. It is clear the coin is not a 67+. It will be interesting to see how the bids pan out.

    Coin Photography

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Interesting situation... I would bet that we see this revisited soon.... Maybe, but might sell first. Cheers, RickO

  • ms71
    ms71 Posts: 1,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Wonder if this one is being discussed on the forum ATS?

    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan, Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins, justindan, doubleeagle07

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

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  • DelawareDoons
    DelawareDoons Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    NGC has pulled the cert.

    https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/6266691-004/67/

    @ianrussell I'm sure they've reached out but just making you aware if they haven't.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • stealer
    stealer Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭
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    @DelawareDoons said:

    Perfect response to the development above ^

    Based on the TV & GC images, I don't think this coin is undergraded. Will be interesting to see
    1. if the coin is pulled from auction
    2. if it shows up in a new holder, what the grade will be

  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    4 is next to 7 on the keypad... just saying.
    Someone should have caught that though.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • stealer
    stealer Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭
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    And just like that, poof, the coin is no longer at auction.

  • jclovescoins
    jclovescoins Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That’s a disgrace. A 3+ point jump. Didn’t even look 64 lol

  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Someone owns this coin. I imagine he just got some unpleasant news.

    :(

  • FlyingAl
    FlyingAl Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BryceM said:
    Someone owns this coin. I imagine he just got some unpleasant news.

    :(

    This is true, but as the coin sold in September of 2021, it is likely that the owner knows exactly what holder it came from because of the way turnaround times are. They likely didn't ever expect a 67+ if that was true.

    If it's not the person that originally bought the coin, then I'm not sure how to feel. A quick glance tells it is not a 67+, so I can't feel as bad as if it wasn't so blatantly obvious. It is a $40k coin in this holder as someone posted earlier, and at that price level you should know your stuff IMO.

    Coin Photography

  • PCGS_Moderator
    PCGS_Moderator Posts: 272 mod
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    Please review the forum rules:
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1009079/pcgs-forum-rules-and-guidelines-updated-4-19-2021

    4) Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.

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