In a perfect world, we would not use the word error to describe any of these things. We would call them mis-struck, thereby side-stepping the question of the coiner's intent.
Naturally, @Byers would have to rename his newsletter "Mis-strike News".
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@IkesT said:
The fact that they were made with intention is beside the point, and a curious thing to object to.
The objection isn't so much that the coin was intentionally mis-struck, but that the coiner's intent was to pick a coin collector's pocket.
Objections will vary, I suppose, but the most common objection appears to be that a coin was intentionally misstruck and that it is designated an error. The word "error" itself appears to be the lightning rod. I haven't seen people objecting in the same way to the 19th century numismatic delicacies, which were also made with a profit motive.
Yes, to me that’s the interesting aspect of this. No one complains about the fantasy patterns slabbed, or the 1859 two headed IHC that slabbed, or the 7 or more gold IHC’s that slabbed, or the 1913 Liberty Head Nickels that slabbed, or countless others.
If some are clamoring for distinction between assisted, fantasy, intentional or not, it needs to be addressed on a wide scale basis and cover all of these mentioned, and more. That’s just common sense.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Wonder if the Mint in a lone moment discussed making 5,000 or so of these "Unique Errors" and marketing them. They market all other kinds of ideas. Somewhat like the P.O. did with the corrected Jenny stamp comes to mind. Would a Mint promotion like this "tank' that market?
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
An intentional error will probably always be labeled as such. As it was created by an employee who, was committing an "error" by deviating from and committing an act, from what the job description most likely prohibits.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
There are pieces known from the early days of the U.S. Mint where a coin was accidentally mis-struck and then, to avoid the bother of melting it back down and making new planchets out of the metal, the mis-struck coin was deliberately placed back between the dies and struck again. What do you call this? The second (and third and fourth, etc.) strike(s) was not an error, but it is an error coin.
At ANACS I saw a Turban Head $10 that had been struck as a brockage (normal head/incused head) and then given six more "normal" strikes to correct it. I do not believe that it has appeared on the market since.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Comments
"Contrived, and intentional, others were officially struck.
Officially (others) contrived ?
Reading this makes me ask this.
Reason being is I've seen a few strike patterns.
In a perfect world, we would not use the word error to describe any of these things. We would call them mis-struck, thereby side-stepping the question of the coiner's intent.
Naturally, @Byers would have to rename his newsletter "Mis-strike News".
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Cute Andy😉
It’s Mint Error News Magazine😃
Personally I don’t care for the more exotic or weird errors. Do love the traditional 1955/55 1918/7 1942/1- 1916/16
And it also covers Patterns!
Zoins- yes!
It covers mint errors, die trials, test pieces, patterns, numismatic rarities and currency errors.
https://minterrornews.com/
The objection isn't so much that the coin was intentionally mis-struck, but that the coiner's intent was to pick a coin collector's pocket.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
My pocket is ready to be picked!
Objections will vary, I suppose, but the most common objection appears to be that a coin was intentionally misstruck and that it is designated an error. The word "error" itself appears to be the lightning rod. I haven't seen people objecting in the same way to the 19th century numismatic delicacies, which were also made with a profit motive.
@IkesT
Yes, to me that’s the interesting aspect of this. No one complains about the fantasy patterns slabbed, or the 1859 two headed IHC that slabbed, or the 7 or more gold IHC’s that slabbed, or the 1913 Liberty Head Nickels that slabbed, or countless others.
If some are clamoring for distinction between assisted, fantasy, intentional or not, it needs to be addressed on a wide scale basis and cover all of these mentioned, and more. That’s just common sense.
Wonder if the Mint in a lone moment discussed making 5,000 or so of these "Unique Errors" and marketing them. They market all other kinds of ideas. Somewhat like the P.O. did with the corrected Jenny stamp comes to mind. Would a Mint promotion like this "tank' that market?
An intentional error will probably always be labeled as such. As it was created by an employee who, was committing an "error" by deviating from and committing an act, from what the job description most likely prohibits.
Mint Games ?
That's a letter E with a well defined precisely placed letter P.
There are pieces known from the early days of the U.S. Mint where a coin was accidentally mis-struck and then, to avoid the bother of melting it back down and making new planchets out of the metal, the mis-struck coin was deliberately placed back between the dies and struck again. What do you call this? The second (and third and fourth, etc.) strike(s) was not an error, but it is an error coin.
At ANACS I saw a Turban Head $10 that had been struck as a brockage (normal head/incused head) and then given six more "normal" strikes to correct it. I do not believe that it has appeared on the market since.
TD
Yes. There are a few known multi-struck early U.S. gold coins like the Turban Head $10.
Here is an extremely rare variety of an early $5 that was struck 4x ( tag says 3).
After I purchased it, John Dannreuther researched it extensively and helped to write it up for my listing. It has been sold.
https://mikebyers.com/03392903.html