1958 DDO Lincoln Cent PCGS MS65 Trueview! + 1919 "Holy Grail" PCGS MS69 Trueview!

Connecticoin

The Blay coin, finest of the three known.

Must be a recent re-holder, as the serial number starts with "44"

Connecticoin

There is also a Truview of Blay's Holy Grail 1919 PCGS MS69:

As well as some of his other crown jewel Lincolns:

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/half-cents/lincoln-cents-major-sets/lincoln-cents-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1909-1958/imagegallery/1408

LanceNewmanOCC

monster ddo obviously. thanks for sharing.

too bad they didn't take the time to remove that green dot on the rev k12. lets call little guys like that on monster coins, a 5-figure killer.

hbarbee

The image of the 1958 will have to be my "hole filler" for the collection. I use the registry set " Lincoln Cents with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes and Proof (1909-Present)" as my set composition reference. Never understood the reason for its inclusion unless it is to ensure that no one ever completes the set!

airplanenut

Let’s bookmark this thread for the next newbie that asks if their mangled 1958-D is a DDO.

robec

@Connecticoin said:
The Blay coin, finest of the three known.

Must be a recent re-holder, as the serial number starts with "44"

If that is a new Cert number then it’s more than a Reholder. You only get a new number if it’s been regraded.

ricko

That is a great DDO and a shame about that 'dot' on the reverse. Probably would have looked worse if conserved. Cheers, RickO

CentSearcher

Wow, that's a really neat coin. Awesome 1919 too, that one's probably one of the best RD wheat cents I've ever seen

WAYNEAS

Eye candy for sure.
Wayne

Connecticoin

@robec said:

If that is a new Cert number then it’s more than a Reholder. You only get a new number if it’s been regraded.

Yeah it was probably a re-grade, but the grade remained the same at MS65. Blay probably thought it deserved a 65+, which would not be too much of a stretch IMHO.

Connecticoin

Here is the ESM coin, which, for a while, was the best known image of the 58 DDO:

As one can see, the Blay coin is much more desirable not only for the extra grade point, but the richer color and mint bloom, and the "O" in "ONE" is more fully struck.

Connecticoin

@CentSearcher said:
Wow, that's a really neat coin. Awesome 1919 too, that one's probably one of the best RD wheat cents I've ever seen

Grade-wise, it is the best wheat cent out there - no other wheat cent has ever been graded PCGS MS69. Quality-wise, it is the king - I have yet to see anyone proffer a wheat cent that is this one's equal.

Joey29

@Connecticoin said:
Here is the ESM coin, which, for a while, was the best known image of the 58 DDO:

As one can see, the Blay coin is much more desirable not only for the extra grade point, but the richer color and mint bloom, and the "O" in "ONE" is more fully struck.

No one knows how this coin came about. Must be chicanery at the mint. How else is it possible only 3 known

Connecticoin

@Joey29 said:

No one knows how this coin came about. Must be chicanery at the mint. How else is it possible only 3 known

I would think more would be out there, like the 55 DDO. Perhaps they are hidden in a mint bag stashed somewhere.

DelawareDoons

@Joey29 said:

@Connecticoin said:
Here is the ESM coin, which, for a while, was the best known image of the 58 DDO:

As one can see, the Blay coin is much more desirable not only for the extra grade point, but the richer color and mint bloom, and the "O" in "ONE" is more fully struck.

No one knows how this coin came about. Must be chicanery at the mint. How else is it possible only 3 known

Secret service seized and destroyed a bunch when they were first found thinking they were fake.

TomB

@DelawareDoons said:

@Joey29 said:

@Connecticoin said:
Here is the ESM coin, which, for a while, was the best known image of the 58 DDO:

As one can see, the Blay coin is much more desirable not only for the extra grade point, but the richer color and mint bloom, and the "O" in "ONE" is more fully struck.

No one knows how this coin came about. Must be chicanery at the mint. How else is it possible only 3 known

Secret service seized and destroyed a bunch when they were first found thinking they were fake.

Was that with this issue? I had thought it happened only with the 1969-S DDO.

bolivarshagnasty

There had to be a bunch of DDO's struck during the time between the earlier die strike of Blays and later die strike of ESM's former coin. So what happened to all of them? Thousands if not tens of thousands. I wonder if there are any mint records showing these being destroyed? Someone was there to see the early die strike and later die strike and pocketed a few as in (3). No way these were ever released to the public and no others found despite what Blay implies. JMHO

DelawareDoons

@TomB said:

@DelawareDoons said:

@Joey29 said:

@Connecticoin said:
Here is the ESM coin, which, for a while, was the best known image of the 58 DDO:

As one can see, the Blay coin is much more desirable not only for the extra grade point, but the richer color and mint bloom, and the "O" in "ONE" is more fully struck.

No one knows how this coin came about. Must be chicanery at the mint. How else is it possible only 3 known

Secret service seized and destroyed a bunch when they were first found thinking they were fake.

Was that with this issue? I had thought it happened only with the 1969-S DDO.

No, you're right. My bad. Was the '69-S. This is what I get for only getting 3 hours of sleep.

LanceNewmanOCC

@DelawareDoons said:
No, you're right. My bad. Was the '69-S. This is what I get for only getting 3 hours of sleep.

an inauspicious alarm of mine went off around 4am or so after going to sleep nearly at 2am (in bed a few hours earlier ugh) then couldn't go back to sleep and experience taught me, if i don't go to sleep within 10 min, just get up and save the frustration, grind through the day with no nap, collapse get a really good nights sleep and usually, viola!

i'm witholding ANY important posts for days like today as i just end up embarrising myself by making some BIG mistake. lessons i've hard learned.

on a positive note? i fed 10 neighborhood cats at my back door after dinner. stupid mangy cute little things they are. lol

i hesitate feeding animals more these days than the past as i think which is worse, a couple starving, ran over etc or feed them, let them multiply, then seeing 3-5x that many disappear or worse. yes, this is why i don't post when i'm this tired.

G'NITE!

DelawareDoons

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@DelawareDoons said:
No, you're right. My bad. Was the '69-S. This is what I get for only getting 3 hours of sleep.

an inauspicious alarm of mine went off around 4am or so after going to sleep nearly at 2am (in bed a few hours earlier ugh) then couldn't go back to sleep and experience taught me, if i don't go to sleep within 10 min, just get up and save the frustration, grind through the day with no nap, collapse get a really good nights sleep and usually, viola!

i'm witholding ANY important posts for days like today as i just end up embarrising myself by making some BIG mistake. lessons i've hard learned.

on a positive note? i fed 10 neighborhood cats at my back door after dinner. stupid mangy cute little things they are. lol

i hesitate feeding animals more these days than the past as i think which is worse, a couple starving, ran over etc or feed them, let them multiply, then seeing 3-5x that many disappear or worse. yes, this is why i don't post when i'm this tired.

G'NITE!

For me, my desktop randomly decided to just update the drivers for my GPU and completely broke my graphics, via some kind of kernel error. This happened Sunday evening. Spent most of Monday trying to fix it while doing other things before giving up and running a fresh reinstall of windows that wrapped up around 3:30am. Was up by 6:30 to get my day started. Had to stay up and get it done so I could get my eBay labels printed and whatnot.

LanceNewmanOCC

@DelawareDoons said:
For me, my desktop randomly decided to just update the drivers for my GPU and completely broke my graphics, via some kind of kernel error. This happened Sunday evening. Spent most of Monday trying to fix it while doing other things before giving up and running a fresh reinstall of windows that wrapped up around 3:30am. Was up by 6:30 to get my day started. > Had to stay up and get it done so I could get my eBay labels printed and whatnot.

.
no doubt about it. because of the intricate nature in which i tend to do things, partly genetic, partly cultivation, a reinstall is usually a several hour long process but at least that windows.old implementation windows did a long time ago saves some time doing backup. BUT, in the world of tech, few things are as satisfying as a factory-state on a pc/tablet/phone. if not for the intricacy and quantity on all devices i use, i would for sure fresh-install ALL my devices quarterly. the are so SNAPPY afterwards. for the esteemed gentlemen of this forum, the technique below may or may not help you figure out any issues with your pc.

my last off-topic post here. in a 58 ddo thread no less. apologies @Connecticoin

Connecticoin

@bolivarshagnasty said:
There had to be a bunch of DDO's struck during the time between the earlier die strike of Blays and later die strike of ESM's former coin. So what happened to all of them? Thousands if not tens of thousands. I wonder if there are any mint records showing these being destroyed? Someone was there to see the early die strike and later die strike and pocketed a few as in (3). No way these were ever released to the public and no others found despite what Blay implies. JMHO

Interesting theory. What did Blay imply?

RedCopper

The 58 DDO was reholdered and Tru viewed out of the holder for my exhibition
at FUN . The 1919 and the 1911 were Tru viewed in the holder .
There is no black spot at 12 o’ clock on the 58 DDO. NGC wanted to put the coin in a 66red holder but it really does not matter to me .The 58 DDO is a major variety
and that is why it is in the Set Registry.
Yes there were probably more minted
but they were melted . My source is deceased so it is unverifiable.
There is still one more 58 DDO that has not been Tru viewed . It is a 64 red
with sweet color. Maybe I will make it appear .

Connecticoin

@RedCopper said:
The 58 DDO was reholdered and Tru viewed out of the holder for my exhibition
at FUN . The 1919 and the 1911 were Tru viewed in the holder .
There is no black spot at 12 o’ clock on the 58 DDO. NGC wanted to put the coin in a 66red holder but it really does not matter to me .The 58 DDO is a major variety
and that is why it is in the Set Registry.
Yes there were probably more minted
but they were melted . My source is deceased so it is unverifiable.
There is still one more 58 DDO that has not been Tru viewed . It is a 64 red
with sweet color. Maybe I will make it appear .

Thanks for the reply, Stewart. Well, I think PCGS could have justified a 65+ for your 58DDO, but, like you said, it does not matter, as the coin will always be needed to be #1 in the majory variety set. So glad the 1919 got Trueviewed!

LanceNewmanOCC

@RedCopper said:
There is no black spot at 12 o’ clock on the 58 DDO.

.
fwiw, if it breaks loose and lands anywhere else on the coin, it will then have 2 black spots. not sure why it wasn't addressed. those types of problems are one of the most common on indians/lincolns. i would say large cents as well but they have numerous issues.

Connecticoin

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@RedCopper said:
There is no black spot at 12 o’ clock on the 58 DDO.

.
fwiw, if it breaks loose and lands anywhere else on the coin, it will then have 2 black spots. not sure why it wasn't addressed. those types of problems are one of the most common on indians/lincolns. i would say large cents as well but they have numerous issues.

CAN it be addressed? I would think PCGS already tried, or at least tried to neutralize it. Or maybe not, given it is likely a $500,000 + coin (the ESM 64 sold for $336,000 in 2018)

LanceNewmanOCC

@Connecticoin said:
CAN it be addressed? I would think PCGS already tried, or at least tried to neutralize it. Or maybe not, given it is likely a $500,000 + coin (the ESM 64 sold for $336,000 in 2018)

ya. i'm not saying they are always easy. anyone experienced in poking at those dots knows they are sometimes adhered to the coin pretty well (i have poked a many and failed but i am not pcgs). obviously considering the value extra careful measure need be taken because even with something like a toothpick can create surface marks indicating someone has been poking at it. also that being said, i've never let a gem red lincoln JUST sit in acetone and while a lot of members over the years have touted mineral oil, myself having not used it from just not having actually found any, can't say whether it is good or not in these situations. i doubt the world would end with that spot (goup) on the coin but if it were mine i doubt i'd sleep until it were addressed. you can call me funny about 6 and 7 figure coins and corrosion/pvc/potentially active spots etc. its not emotional though, the sky isn't falling,

glad the thread was started. can't say there is a single time i wasn't elated to see someone post one of these numismatic treasures.

Connecticoin

@RedCopper said:
There is still one more 58 DDO that has not been Tru viewed . It is a 64 red
with sweet color. Maybe I will make it appear .

Do it! Would love to see what that one looks like!

Connecticoin

@bolivarshagnasty said:
There had to be a bunch of DDO's struck during the time between the earlier die strike of Blays and later die strike of ESM's former coin. So what happened to all of them? Thousands if not tens of thousands. I wonder if there are any mint records showing these being destroyed? Someone was there to see the early die strike and later die strike and pocketed a few as in (3). No way these were ever released to the public and no others found despite what Blay implies. JMHO

Recalling this good point, additional thoughts: Perhaps most of them were noticed and destroyed, and 3 “escaped” into a mint bag or a pocket. However, It is a more subtle DDO than the 55, so I would think the Mint would not be too obsessed with removing these from circulation. But, it seems Blay’s deceased “source” indicated that many of these were indeed destroyed.

DCW

@Connecticoin said:

@bolivarshagnasty said:
There had to be a bunch of DDO's struck during the time between the earlier die strike of Blays and later die strike of ESM's former coin. So what happened to all of them? Thousands if not tens of thousands. I wonder if there are any mint records showing these being destroyed? Someone was there to see the early die strike and later die strike and pocketed a few as in (3). No way these were ever released to the public and no others found despite what Blay implies. JMHO

Recalling this good point, additional thoughts: Perhaps most of them were noticed and destroyed, and 3 “escaped” into a mint bag or a pocket. However, It is a more subtle DDO than the 55, so I would think the Mint would not be too obsessed with removing these from circulation. But, it seems Blay’s deceased “source” indicated that many of these were indeed destroyed.

Unless Im mistaken, the deceased "source" was a retired Mint employee.
What a coincidence, right?

oih82w8

I would gladly take the "inferior" DDO anytime!

Connecticoin

@oih82w8 said:
I would gladly take the "inferior" DDO anytime!

Still would like to see a picture of @RedCopper 's "inferior" PCGS 64 DDO! We are waiting!