What is the difference in Greysheet pricing and PCGS price guide?
Herb_T
Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
Trying to understand the differences in Greysheet and PCGS price guide, any comments would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
2
Comments
Greysheet is wholesale, PCGS is retail.
What is the difference? Well, some things are just too far beyond 'most' our abilities to understand, like quantum physics.
About 50 bucks.
--Severian the Lame
I get the idea that PCGS pricing is similar to CAC in that they believe their product ensures a high end coin and should priced accordingly.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Yikes!
PCGS + CAC = TOO MUCH $
Viewing greysheet,CAC or pcgs can bring an equal amount of pain to me and what their prices reveal about my collection and how much I don’t know. 😉🙀🦫
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Would someone post the difference between Pcgs and Greysheet pricing on an identical coin and grade.
This would explain clearly the difference.
Thanks
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
1811 CBH MS62 small 8
G - $1850
PCGS - $4000
1827 CBH MS63
G - $1700
PCGS - $3550
Thank you so much.
The answer always lies in the numbers.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
This is why I don't use the Greysheet - It prevents me from buying coins.
The spread between wholesale and retail is too far wide and destroys the possibility I'll ever get my money back.
I started to say show me the 1,800 1811 in MS 62 and I might pass, but the 4,000. one could be something.
Both are reference points. As are Auction Prices realized.
Eye appeal within a technical grade can make a huge difference.
Using your 1811 sm 8 in MS 62 - I found seven Auctions for PCGS MS62's ... ranging from 2019 through 2021, with the Lowest at $1,560. and the Highest at $4,838.
Based on the images, the lesser priced coins are dipped, mostly white and some are borderline (maybe 58's on a different day).
The 2nd highest price ($3,741.) was GORGEOUS, and the top price was probably considered a shot upgrade, and was also VERY original looking with a lovely skin. Again from images.
YMMV
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Read the details on their data streams. > @DisneyFan said:
Except you'll find the auction results are closer to greysheet.
‘’Would someone post the difference between Pcgs and Greysheet pricing on an identical coin and grade.
This would explain clearly the difference. Thanks Wayne”
Here’s one:
1904-S United States Philippine Peso in Gem 65
CDN (Sheet) $30,000 (properly adjusted upward recently)
PCGS Price Guide - $1,250 (still this price today)
Monstercoinmart Price Guide on USPI Pesos - $31,000
Last sale at Heritage last month - $31,200 (I convinced Heritage to put this “$1250” coin in their Platinum night session for my customer where they like to see $15,000-$20,000 minimum valued coins using Justin’s valuation guide BEFORE the auction took place).
Now, do you understand Wayne that the PCGS price guide is always “retail”? 😂
Wondercoin
P.S. I’ve offered my son Justin’s services anytime to CU free of charge to fix their entire Guide on USPI coins. He’s just a phone call away.
Thanks for sharing.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Yeppers no way that you can buy at retail and sell at wholesale and think that you can make a profit it just doesn't work that way. I have made plenty of purchases at retail and know that I'm only going to get the low end of the scale when I sell, the best I can do is to sell at auction and hope two people both need what I have bidder frenzy can be fun to watch.
Isolated outliers like the Philippine piece aside, PCGS Price Guide is usually quite high and not realistic even on a retail level.
Too many people get hung up on what a guide says, including both guides mentioned here.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Do the posted auction prices include the buyer's premium if Heritage or Stacks, or just the hammer price?
My 1868 $3 in AU58 is 4,000 in the greysheet.
PCGS guide is 3850.
So sometimes they are backwards.
My YouTube Channel
They're both useful for the purpose of debate ( negotiations), in dealing with slabbed and non slabbed coins.
Probably last updated 20 years ago!
What is the cost to have the Greysheet available for your own use? I know it is not free.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
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You can get it monthly or for a year. Paper copy vs Browser access….if you sign up on line you can get about 12 free price look ups until they say time to pay. Lowest price is browser access at $7.99 a month…
@Herb_T thanks a lot for the price info, I've always wondered how much the gray sheet cost and whether it was worth it. I might just have to look and check it out. Thanks
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
Don't ever go by pcgs price guide. Lots of inaccuracies in both directions. Do your own research on various auction sites if you are looking at specific coins.
You can also go to coinfacts and get most recent auction results. (Not for great collections though)
I bought 3 coins in the last 10 days. All were above PCGS price guides. There was a fourth coin that I did not get. It went for over 3 times PCGS price guide. I am very happy with the 3 coins that I got.
To me, a large part of it is access - how does one buy at G when all the avenues available to average collectors are eBay, the usual coin auction houses, etc. Sure maybe once in a while a deal can be had, but generally it seems like buying from the typical outlets allows few opportunities to buy at 'dealer' buy prices.
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Well, when faced with this situation I started studying and studying and then a little more study. There’s deals all over eBay. I have become very proficient at shopping on eBay and having next to no problems. Even getting good at looking at amateur pictures and descriptions.
“ life is change and success is adapting to change and applying what you learn to new situations. 🙀🦫😉
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Interesting. Is that a general statement for buying or for a specific coin date, grade, etc. that is not a dog? I am often looking for something specific and it seems there are usually no offerings near G and mostly at or higher than P. Thanks!
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What types of coins are you buying?
When it comes to classic gold both the gray sheet and PCGS price guide are lagging reality. Prices have skyrocketed over the last year. I’d say in my series, gold dollars, the prices have gone up about 30% easily and most sell for more than any guide if you’re patient. I’ve sold to dealers higher than the price guides if it’s not a low grade generic.
The problem for me is buying right now puts me at risk of being very upside down if the market slows down so I’m having to be pretty careful.
Dealer to dealer transactions are wholesale prices, dealer to collector transactions are retail prices. If the Greysheet accurately reflects wholesale transactions, collectors won't be able to buy at those prices. Think about it... If Dealer A buys a coin from Dealer B at the Greysheet value, how can he sell it to a Collector C for the same amount, if he wants to stay in business?
Once upon a time the Grey Sheet had bid and ask for everything and the spreads were pretty accurate.
Buying at GS thinking that the price is wholesale is sketchy since almost every Dealer wants in excess for their coins. Selling at GS is a fools errand. Dealers rarely want to give you the published price.
Accordingly, I think GS pricing is something to aspire to but expect to pay a bit more for attractive, problem free coins
.
PCGS price guide is the amount I'd pay only for a coin I'd keep for life.
"Buying at GS thinking that the price is wholesale is sketchy since almost every Dealer wants in excess for their coins."
Dealers buy and sell between themselves at GS. Of course they're going to want more when they sell to a collector.
"Selling at GS is a fools errand. Dealers rarely want to give you the published price."
If dealers buy and sell between themselves at GS, it's clear they're going to pay less than that when buying from collectors.
Depends on how badly they need the coins for inventory.
You can buy all the inventory you want but it won't do you any good if you pay a collector to acquire it and sell it for the same price to another dealer. If GS is dealer to dealer pricing (that's what the GS itself says it is), dealers need to pay less than GS prices for coins bought from people who are not dealers.
If you are buying needed coins for inventory, you have no interest in selling them to another dealer. In today's active market, coins are being sold above Greysheet guide prices.
Dealers buy coins for inventory and end up selling them to other dealers all the time.
Well- yeah. Retail prices are different from wholesale prices.
Does it really matter who's price list you use? If a dealer has a coin that you want and is asking $$$$ if you want it you buy it! If a coin is in an auction and you want it you bid on it, that simple. Forget about price guides, they are all just reference points. If you like and want the coin just pony up to "YOUR" price guide.
JMO
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
It's not that simple for those who worry about how much they can get when selling a coin before they've bought it.
I buy coins because I love coins!
If I want to make money I do that elsewhere
IF, I end up selling a coin (down the road) and making money on a coin that's great but not my main reason for buying coins in the 1st place.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
This is simply not true. It happens all the time in liquid, volatile markets. For example, plenty of people have made money buying gold at "ask" and later or earlier selling it at "bid". The best you're going to do with "rare" coins is probably between 10 and 15%. To profit on those rates you'll have to either deal in hot issues or hold a long to very long time. Time is the retail buyer's friend.
As a widget buyer, it’s very important that I be within the range of reality. I understand where I stand as a customer (non-dealer) and need an idea of what I can expect to lose on a sale, should it ever come to that. I buy what I like but don’t have money to burn. I try to use all the info I can to make a wise choice. The lower the better, but guides really help.
You have it right, but,if a coin comes along that you really really want and it's a little above your budget will you buy it?
There are a few auctions coming up that I know I'm going to have to pony up for some of the coins. Not only because they don't come up for sale that offten but because they are great looking coins. I really am a collector, not a flipper.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
@alaura22 absolutely! I just like to know (roughly) what I’m getting into.
I won a ‘45 Micro S Merc for “full retail” a year or two ago on GC that totally maxed me out at that moment. I’ve wanted one for 20 years and never pulled the trigger. This one caught my eye, was the right grade (MS66) and had a green bean on it, which helped me be more confident paying up for a coin I couldn’t see in hand. It showed up in the mail and I’m delighted with it and hope to never sell it.
There isn’t a coin out there right now that I could pay “moon money” for. I’m on way too tight of a budget (for coins and everything else). If I view it as primo, though, I’m willing to stretch, especially if it’s a specific coin I’ve been after.
When I bought this coin, I checked eBay and auction history and available price guides. I didn’t have access to GS at the time, but have used it in the past. The price was definitely higher than I would have been willing to pay for a raw coin, but like I said in my first post, still within the range of reality
Edit for fat finger typos.
ShaunBC5
We are on the same page.
My love for coins has definitly put a chalange on my budget.
I also buy only CAC stickered coins for my non-moderen coins. But even on a fixed income and fixed budget I still managed to put some nice sets together, it just sometimes takes time, a lot of time to find the right coins at the right price.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
We do understand each other. When I refer to "needed" coins, I'm not referring to run of the mill coins; but, coins that would stand out in your inventory and/or can be quickly sold, possibly to someone who has never bought from you before. Why would you want to sell them to another dealer, unless you want to be basically a wholesaler? Yes, I know, cash is cash; but....
What ever catches my eye. Calmness is required but new, old ,slabbed, raw and bullion. Tokens, so-called dollars , stamps ( sorry 😉) D.Carr, Ron Landis , Intaglio, libertads, maples and coins with
Beavers. Canadian, Oregon, even Beaver Falls. 😉🦫🙀
Edit to add …..
A fairly large collection of fdoi which I can only put together buying from dealers with fdoi privilege or secondary resale.
ER or FS never made much difference but fdoi premium is 20-30% on the right coin 😉
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Dealers seek opportunities to sell coins at a profit and quick turnover (to other dealers) allows for cash for other opportunities. The more the churn with profits, the more profitable the business when considering the time value of money. I'm not a dealer, but that's my take.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
only time i use the PCGS price guide is to see how much my coin is worth
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