New Collector- My 2nd PCGS submission was returned to me- I will quit this hobby
Kwang
Posts: 17 ✭
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Kwang
Posts: 17 ✭
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Well. This should be interesting.
Smitten with DBLCs.
@Kwang Please take a deep breathe and relax a bit.
Regarding your sentiments, please know that MOST new collectors experience your frustration with third-party grading at some point. I sure did, and I said some of the same things you are upset about.
Those with an open mind will figure things out quickly, learn and adjust accordingly. It is an expensive education, but it is a great one! Others never learn and keep collecting for years, all while miserably complaining the entire time. And finally, others will simply give up and quit.
Why not take this as a learning experience? Btw, your post contains some mistruths and inaccuracies. For example, the graders at PCGS do not know who submitted a coin, nor would they care. Others can elaborate more on this subject.
Regarding the photos you posted, I have my opinion, but I will yield to the Roosevelt dime experts on this forum.
BTW, how many coins did you submit?
Oh dear. Once again a dissatisfied customer.
You can't determine designations from photos, you need coin in hand, good light and loupe.
Have you watched grading videos? taken any 2 day or week courses?
Don't get discouraged, everyone who has sent a submission to any TPG has had things come back they aren't happy with.
To the OP, with all due respect, why in the world are you as a new collector submitting coins in search of grade rarities?
You said that you learned "a great deal" from the forum but as I write this you have only three posts. You obviously haven't been posting pictures and asking questions.
To use your own words, "let me be bluntly honest":
You have made some terrible - even slanderous - accusations that will probably get this thread locked down. If you persist I suspect that you will not enjoy the "long goodbye" you are looking for because you will likely get banned. (I have intentionally not quoted your post in case you have the good sense to edit it.)
There is no shame for a collector of any experience level to not be able to split the hairs of the higher MS grades. However, there is a bit of foolishness and arrogance in a new collector thinking they can do this.
You seem to believe that you could start off as an expert. You can't, and you didn't. To blame your lack of success on the things you referenced is a little offensive and completely inappropriate.
Your post actually has me questioning whether or not you are an alt for a banned member who is back to troll the forum. 🤔
There are threads here all the time of seasoned collectors and well known dealers having coins come back lower than anticipated. Welcome to that club. Better luck next time. Post more and ask more.
“ 3 pictures, 6 dimes. Are they both full bands”?
I’m confused.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Interesting that no one has the gumpshion to even give an opinion as to the photos. One won't share and one needs the perfect requirements before they will give an opinion. If you can't tell from a TRUE view photo that there isn't full bands, will they somehow miraculousky appear in a loupe?
I never said I was chasing rarieties or anything like that. I will tell you that I submited a SBA in July it came back a 66, cracked it open and sent it back and it was returned a 65 this time. I'm not sure what is slanderous or so terrible but good job steering the post elsewhere. In a place with so many experts, with so much knowledge and so much advise and chastising, not a singe one has the **** to even give an opinion. Telling. Maybe all of us need a class, hmmm?
I submitted 8 coins. JBK alot of opinions, some way out on a limb but none about the photos? Everyone walking on eggshells it seems when it comes to them.
In light of your ongoing combativeness toward other members, I'll go ahead and quote you just so everyone can read your original rant even if edited later.
So after trashing PCGS you are now criticizing forum members.
Great. JKB, stir that pot all you can. Write that i should change it and then post the original in case i do. Contradict yourself much?
I would really like to know how numisma claims to know the interworkings of the PCGS graders and their mindset. Also, interested in how in the world they could keep track of coins without the submission sheet that goes with them and has names at the top of them. It seems to me that your post about inaccuracies had plenty of it's own.
Hmm. Sounds like you were chasing a 67 or 68. When it didn't grade that high you cracked it out and resubmitted, obviously hoping for a higher grade.
You were smart to post this on a Saturday when the moderators aren't around, but something tells me they'll take a look early next week and maybe give an opinion.
You are not getting "guesses" regarding the FB on the dimes because they would be just that: guesses.
PCGS and NGC graders do not grade from photos. They have special lighting and tools in a controlled grading room. To determine a Full Band (Roosevelt & Mercury), Full Bell Line (Franklins), etc., you need to rotate the coin under the light with magnification. Can't do that from a low resolution photo.
Regardless, you say that the six coins you posted are Trueviews, but you blurred out the cert numbers so we cannot access the actual Trueviews via the PCGS website. From a Trueview photo, one could make a decent guess on Full Bands, but from a screenshot of a Trueview, it really would be an average guess.
But just for fun, I see three potential Full Band dimes in your six photos. What do I win?
And you all succeeded in giving opinions about all sorts of things relevent or not. Many jumping far in thier conclusions. But not 1 single 1 wants to even mention the photos?
Maybe try humbling yourself and Asking for help or opinions before making accusations might get you the responses you are looking for.
IMO..
Thank you, Heavenly Father, for first loving us.
.
Well, the PCGS grading process is documented online and in their company literature. Here's an old 2007 video that explains the PCGS system and why it is safe. It may be old, but the process is the same. Please skip to about the 1:00 mark and your question will be clearly answered.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=hAQv6qmGcis&t=91s
numisa , i understand what you say. And I see 4 full bands but I wouldn't know for sure without coins in hand and perfect lighting. But standing on my head in almost the dark I can tell you which 2 for sure dont have full bands. Never has and never will. And sorry You win nothing because you didnlt say which ones.
And I marked out the numbers because I wanted to get a inocent opinion on a photo is all. I know if there isn;t full bands there then you can have all the lighting magnification and do everything possible but they are not going to appear.
Are you honestly giving me 15 year old information and claiming it accurate today? I am suprised nothing clicked as you were posting that. 15 years ago i was 7. smh
And again why would the submission paper with the numbers that match the coins be seperated from the coins themselves? Does the vidoe say that because that doesn't make sense?
Very easy: they put the coin ID number on the coins, not the submission fotm. It is very easy to both track the coins and maintain anonymity. Not that you care about facts.
2 FBs, 3 not FBs. One is too close to call.
If this is your attitude, don't expect anyone to be upset that you are leaving the hobby.
My friend, please calm down. Nobody is attacking you here. Rather, we are trying to help.
Regarding the "15 year old information," It is actually 36 year old information, but filmed 15 years ago. It is timeless information since it has been the PCGS process since day one. But to satisfy your need, here's a link to the same information (in writing) on the PCGS website (published 2022):
https://pcgs.com/pcgs-grading-process-video
Note that the video on the PCGS website is the same one featuring David Hall (one of the founders and former CEO) that I linked from YouTube. In all fairness, they probably should update that video to keep it fresh, LOL.
I will leave this post as i know none of you would dare give your opinion on the photos. I will order you guys some little short skirts and some pom poms since there will be no worries that any one of your **** might show. We will stitch them all with the 4 letters you blindly defend and your will be all set. Blindly following anything and thinking that you could know or predict the thoughts of another is very sheeplike. My post is my opinion. i believe every word of it. And alot of you defended and have gone against it but your responces were as flawed as my original post. You post opinions as fact. You take a video from the place made 15 years ago and claim it as a certainty today. You give the impression of sheep. One calls it terrible and slanderous which overblown and completely innacurate and purposely draws attention as they state how they arent. And btw Slander is oral. Your accusations should have been libel but hey you guys are the experts so claim whatever you think and call them facts. I will leave this thread now as it went about the way I expects. I lot of ducking and diving and comments that are opinions giving as fact. And of course the pot stirrer. Who don;t even know what slander is even as they accuse me of it. We could all learn something from tonight.
Oh and sorry, last thing numisa if you happened to think the first one on the top left or the last one on the bottom right had full bands you would be correct. They do. I mean the so called experts we should all trust said they didn't have them but that don't mean they don't, right? And if you thought that last one on the bottom left. You know the one that dont even have part of a band on it? The worst looking one of the 6 didn't have full bands. Well you would be wrong. They are there but just invisible. they will miraculous appear only when viewed through a loupe. Bye all.
the truviews have shadows on lower right band where it meets the field, but none of them look FB to me
Well, that explains a lot. I mean the part about you being 22 years young.
I started on this forum back in 1998, I was younger and a bit aggressive at times. I was not a fan of third party grading at all, but I loved this forum due to the amazing amount of knowledge here. I was known here as an "anti-plastic" guy and some of my posts were immature.
Some of the older collectors and dealers here would send me PMs and coach me on being more civil and respectful. I learned a lot from those guys, especially good ol' Bear (RIP).
So if you are willing to take a step back and just try to learn from these forums, you might really enjoy this great hobby one day soon. Just ask questions. For example, "Hey forum members, should I submit this coin?" We all here to help each other.
Top right, middle right, bottom left= full band according to the only opinion that matters, which isnt me.
top left and bottom right are the source of my extreme ire as they are mine.
Now cheerleaders and defenders ...... GO!
tells us all how it is all perfectlly perfect
Yes, you are correct on this one point.
I had to decide which to use. Your attacks on PCGS were technically in writing, but I wasn't sure if extemporaneous screed on a forum counted as published material.
In the context of a forum, which is basically social media, I somehow felt it was essentially spoken, at least figuratively if not literally. So, I opted for "slander".
But, if you are admitting to libel I won't challenge you on that.
Trashing PCGS? I said they were the only grader that mattered. My insults were wrapped in compliments.
I go. Goodnight. And we had discussions like a forum should. A success. Toodles.
That was eloquently stated. Are you an attorney?
Admitting libel? I corrected your inaccurate comment is all. Your false claim Nice try though pot stirer. I admit to nothing and you might also since you are doing a little tap dance like you knew slander from libel check the requirements for each. 5 elements and they weren't all present. But you knew that too already, didn't you? I bet you were the hall monitor and the one the teacher called on to rat out the other kid. I habve to stop reading comments amd leave here.
Thx! But no...
I did represent myself once in front of a state tax hearing on a very messy and complex issue, and they decided in my favor and told me that what I accomplished had never been done before.
So, I quit while I was ahead and retired with a lifetime record of 1-0.
I beat 4 felonies and 2 misemeaners and did the biggest no no ever and argued criminal charges pro se. I am also 1-0 and your words weren nice on the 2 step retract but to say this could ever be remotely considered oral and i type so much my finges ache. Is a about as weak an arguement as it gets. But congrats on the tax win
Wow!
You said far more than that.
Congratulations on your numerous felonies.
I'm disturbed that you are so proud of them.
But anyway, if it is one thing that I am good at, it is long goodbyes.
Thx. And to be clear, I didn't just beat a tax rap, I proved that I didn't owe what they wanted to make me pay.
In criminal court you are presumed innocent unless proven guilty. In my tax case, they consider you "guilty" (liable to pay) unless you can prove otherwise, and you have to make your case to the people who serve as judge, Jury, and executioner.
they meant to say falsely accused of ....
Or did they...
I have to admit I read this entire thread. Talk about a long goodbye 🤣😂
That girl has ANGER issues!🤣😂
Kwang. Seems you missed a trip to the wood shed.
To busy learning how to “beat the man”.
It’s good you got lucky and beat your rap( this time) because with your immature mouth and attitude you would learn more about Pom Pom’s and dresses than you would care to know, in the joint.
Your contribution here has been to make me appreciate the YN’s who post with a degree of maturity you are lacking.
Stay or go , just show a little respect.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I've read through this entire thread and thought long and hard about what my contribution would be. Here it is: There are millions of people who have enjoyed the coin collecting hobby with no thought as to profit. There are millions more who have made a good living at it. There are very, very few who have made a killing at it. It seems as though our OP wants to be one of the few. Maybe they need to look for their opportunities elsewhere.
Apparently he’s taking your advice. Seems as though he’s checking out prison life as a lifestyle .
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
So how was the first submission?
If you truly believe PCGS is biased, there are other services to try. But I agree with someone earlier in the thread. This is likely an alt of someone with an axe to grind.
Maybe those had the Full Steps gradings?