Toning Opinions
coastaljerseyguy
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Bot this many years ago for reasonable price in an NGC MS62 Gen 5 Fatty holder. I liked that it had a crescent shaped tone, which I hadn't possessed, though wish not as dark, and the reverse has more/nicer color than I can capture. Believe the toning occurred from mint bag storage. Hasn't turned any more in the 17 + years I've had it. Technically it is probably a 63 or even a 64.
In your opinion, is it neutral, too far gone & fugly, or something that can be appealing to others. Thanks for input.
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Comments
The coin definitely has character, but I personally find this toning to be negative. I think many would say neutral, but few would consider this positive toning.
Decent looking obverse, IMO. The reverse ... well, not so much. Looks better than a 62.
Dave
Most of the reverse looks good to me but all the dark toning on the rim and obverse looks to the point of becoming damaged in my opinion.
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toning appears to be very dark. Luster looks to be very subdued. I would pass
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To me, the toning - on the obverse, in particular - is a negative.
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To me, the cheek looks magnificent for a 62? The Toning, I usually like even the slight darkish. However, in your coin, I'm not a fan, sorry.
Yeah, that crescent is too dark. The center
paints a different picture though. Like I mentioned, the coin in general. Seems to be at least 64?
Good Luck, in your final decision.
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--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Nice coin with some character, but too scorched to be appealing to me. I imagine 62 represents some net grading here for negative eye appeal - which in practical terms is probably more important than the "official" 10% of the grade that PCGS states that they use.
Ricko hasn't posted here yet but I'm sure I will agree with his expert opinion when he does.
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I’m not a fan. Terminal toning is a negative for me and likely a majority of collectors.
As well as the huge obverse fingerprint.
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The coin is unattractive to me. Far too dark, and lifeless surfaces and a fingerprint don’t help.
Now, a dark coin isn’t necessarily bad, but it has to be the right kind of dark. A super dark Morgan (usually near-black, super deep purple, which sometimes has bands of dark red and green) with great lustre can be a gorgeous coin. But when the lustre isn’t there and the color is charcoal, it’s just not appealing.
Also a consideration: this isn’t a rare coin. Admittedly I don’t like it regardless, But if it were a rare date where any example is a find, there’s at least a case to be made. When it’s a coin that isn’t difficult to acquire, the bar should be set much higher for quality.
I'm not a toning guy in general, although to be fair I have a few oddball toners just because they are oddballs. But I would have to say that this coin sits on the negative side of the eye appeal fence.
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I'm certain there are plenty of folks who would fine that coin attractive, or at least handsome, but I think it has negative eye appeal.
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like the reverse ... the obverse, meh, not so much
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Not being a fan of tarnish, even mild tarnish, I find this coin very unattractive. Often I will give positive comments on a tarnished coin in reference to strike/condition. This coin has gone terminal, and, IMO, is not remarkable for detail either. Cheers, RickO
Thanks for all your comments, maybe it might attract some buyer on EBAY. Wondered if that was an obverse fingerprint or the mint bag imprint that goes up to cause the white spots in the black toning through near the eye.
Assuming it can never be dipped without revealing etching in the surface of coin?
I think this coin is so far gone that nothing will improve it
I... agree with you...
This is a great chance for me to learn something!
When you say “Terminal” is it because the toning is crossing into literal bad corrosion territory, or just negative eye appeal?
Will the black toning take over the entire coin eventually? Even in a PCGS holder?
I will be in the minority and say I kind of like this look, especially the reverse. It has crusty character to me which is much more appealing to me than any blast white silver many decades old.
Typically I do not like straight black toning on coins but this one has a cool factor for me.
Teach me please.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
If you look at how toning forms, it begins as light color, and as the length of time the coin is exposed to whatever is causing the toning increases, the color gets deeper (and the color may change, as well). Left exposed long enough, a coin will end up super dark and the surfaces changed in a way that the lustre is diminished. This is terminal--the toning can't get any deeper (shy of environmental damage, but that would likely require something more than just a "normal" chemical exposure, such as high humidity that could corrode the surfaces).
In a slab, the coin won't get any darker--it's no longer exposed to what causes the toning, so the toning won't grow. That said, if it were exposed again, much of the coin wouldn't change because it's already black.
I agree with you that old white silver isn't always attractive, but with a caveat. A lot of silver dollars were stored in bags, and other than the coins touching the canvas, the rest had no way to tone, and plenty of white coins are original as opposed to dipped. They may not all be super exciting to look at, but Morgans in particular are an old silver series where white doesn't mean unoriginal. There are also many coins that develop a very thin, original skin (light gold or cream), while others retain an appearance of being completely untoned. This coin isn't the best example because the periphery has some darker toning, but if you look at the middle of the coin, it's not truly "white" but it's also not really what you think of when you think of a toned coin:
Thank you much for the explanation @airplanenut
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
The black tarnish is generally terminal... the final phase... as @airplanenut said above...and stated it very well. I add my comment to support the information. Cheers, RickO
I like it mainly because of the antique overall look. It's interesting to me as a fan of Morgan dollars.
I would not buy it though for all the reasons stated above. Also, over the years I've gone from "slightly bothered" by fingerprints to "I hate them". Once you notice them, it's the first thing your eye is drawn to every time you look at it.
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it has some burnt to a crispy aspects but i also think your images do not fully showcase the coins overall potential appeal. lots of us here do like crusty, crunchy and otherwise grimy and this one has cooked a bit too long but is more cajun style than black toast.
will you check your date against this one?
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com/wiki/1880-P_VAM-7
Lance,
Unfortunately not one of the prominent 80/79 VAMs. I need to do some research but there are a lot of 80P Vams. Here are some better photos just taken in the sunlight. Not to minimize the terminal black impact on coin, but just to show some more of the color.