Grade this Bust Half
jayPem
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7
jayPem
Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭✭✭
jayPem
Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
I'm going with VF30
If not Details, VF35.
I grade it awesome!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Nice VF ... numerically, maybe 25, shot 30
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
VF25
VF30, with a caveat: What happened to "America"? I've never seen anything like it.
Would love to hear an expert opinion.
BTW, looks like O-106.
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I-T alignment not right for 106, but it does look like a 107. The I-T alignment looks similar and those die cracks running around the reverse is correct for a 107.
I’m going with a 35. There is something funky going on with America…but that isn’t wear. Must have come from mint that way.
VF 20. It probably has wear that would give it a bit higher grade but the rim nick and scratch on the reverse under E PLURIBUS UNUM (which may have been smoothed) will bring it down.
25
30
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
scratch on the reverse under E PLURIBUS UNUM (which may have been smoothed) will bring it down.
Die clash.
I'm guessing a partial attempt to lap it away resulted in that "smoothed" look..
This is what I thought too Todd.
I pounced on this for the "error" but now that I'm seeing in hand what the graders saw, I like the assigned grade as well 👍
106 and 107 actually share the same reverse die with 107 being the later use. The OP's coin has the upper curl curving away from the headband and the "bouncing 1" in the date making it obverse 5 and the coin therefore 106.
VF 30. And I really like it.
I would give it VF30, first impression... and after going back, I still think the same. Nice coin with interesting issues. Cheers, RickO
America was never there I would guess. This makes me wonder what else was never there.
Lady’s cheek doesn’t look that worn. I’m thinking the hair was a mushy strike.
45 on a weak strike.
Love these halves.
Great guesses so far, as to be expected from the forum 👍
My thoughts on the TV images.. coin was lit to capture the little bit of tilt color it has, which gives the images a kind of washed out look.
In hand it has crisp dove gray surfaces, a nice surprise.
As for the missing letters, I posted just that area a few days ago and got some great feed back, but I'd say the jury is still out on how that came to be...
I'll post the grade a bit later.
VF-30
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
The OP's coin has the upper curl curving away from the headband and the "bouncing 1" in the date making it obverse 5 and the coin therefore 106.
I really want to know what a bouncing 1 is!
And which 1 is bouncing??
As a side note, the 1811 has more ones in it than any other CBH. 😅
As everyone else is saying, looks like a solid VF-30
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Far from everyone else has said VF30 - of those who provided a single grade, half of us said VF 30.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mark, help me out here. I see it as a 25 obv and 20 rev and you are far more qualified to grade this coin than many, including me. Tell me what I'm missing. The vertical lines on the reverse shield are missing, the central feather design is well worn beyond true definition. Is using photograde a bad method of grading coins that you are not real familiar with? Just asking for clarification and help. I'm not so concerned with the missing letters as that could be various reason such as, weak strike, grease filled die, die crack separation. Or am I to assume that due to a weak strike the features are all lessened and with wear only education and experience allows such an attempt at a grade reasonable?
Thanks,
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Jim, there’s certainly no assurance that I’m correct - each of us is guessing. I don’t look at Photograde very often, but think it’s generally a very good guide. In this case, I believe that a weak strike accounts for much of the difference in grade opinions. It sounds like we’ll learn what grade was actually assigned before too much longer.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
put me in the 30 camp. What a great looking coin! Great discussion too.
@MFeld said:
... In this case, I believe that a weak strike accounts for much of the difference in grade opinions. It sounds like we’ll learn what grade was actually assigned before too much longer.
I guess the time has come then!
Let me add that based on the sellers TV pics, my thoughts were 20-25.
I'm always griping about late die state bust halves getting a tough ride through the grading room but actually thought this one might have been a tad over graded...
Bought it anyway for the "error" and had fingers crossed that it would be closer to 35 (the assigned grade ) in hand..
I totally agree with the grade on the holder, and also totally agree with all the guesses in the 20 to 30 range based on pics provided..
The grade is...35 😄
Wow. Congrats. I'm sure the hair details contributed greatly to the grade. Beautiful coin.
Thank you for sharing and thanks to Mark for sharing his insight.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Grading these can be tough for all the reasons you noted in your previous post..
The dies got used to the very end of their life in alot of cases and details just eroded away.
Sometimes an obverse in a very late die state gets married to a reverse (or vice versa) that is in much better shape... which side do you grade from? Do you assign a net grade from both?
This coin has striking issues. How do you balance that into your grade?
A big factor with this coin was simply surfaces. In hand it sort of has that look of a 40. Areas that appear mint fresh in and around areas of die wear and poor striking. That doesn't really come through in the images.
It's why everyone uses the same caveat..."grading for these images, I'd give it a..."
Very nice looking bust Jay, love the flow lines and the stretched stars.
Question: At what point/year are coins allowed so much forgiveness? I'm guessing anytime pre 1900 and assuming you would have to have really deep gouges before a "details" was considered.
I guess you are referring to the line above the eagle?
This is a classic area for the bottom of the bust to clash into the reverse die.
If you look at alot of 106's you'll see that many of them have this same line. At one point it appears to be lapped completely away, as there are 107's where it is gone.
On other 106's I've looked at, its a rather sharp line. On this one it has a smoothed over look. In hand you can also see that the line is bulged up higher than the coins surface, not gouged into it.
Same thing applies to die polish versus hairlines from cleaning. With good magnification, you can see that die polish lines are raised up on the srface of a coin.
I guess you are referring to the line above the eagle?
Not so much that line or your coin in particular, just coins from that era in general. I guess I'm so used to moderns that are weighed against other mint state coins where even a hair line kills them. Obviously, I don't have much experience with these or lower end of the grading scale coins but, I'm learning.
Thanks for sharing.
Bingo! Winner winner chicken dinner!