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How many coins dose a PCGS grader do in a day

VetterVetter Posts: 747 ✭✭✭✭✭

Just wondering how much time is spent looking at a coin for grading and how many dose a grader do in a day. Anyone have an idea?

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  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can assume it's generally around 100-150 coins an hour when you factor everything in.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭✭✭

    265,126 graded in 30 days.

    https://www.pcgs.com/statistics

  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DelawareDoons said:
    You can assume it's generally around 100-150 coins an hour when you factor everything in.

    Wait, what? That for one person or the whole team?

  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Per person.

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  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2022 1:13PM

    62 per day. if you consider a 5 day work week it is 93!!!! more than 10 per hour for an 8 hour day.

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  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Imagine what it must be like having to grade large shipments of modern proof coins. I wonder what the turnover rate for graders is?

    All glory is fleeting.
  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Che_Grapes said:

    @DelawareDoons said:
    You can assume it's generally around 100-150 coins an hour when you factor everything in.

    Wait, what? That for one person or the whole team?

    Per person. But you gotta remember, coins are graded and finalized. So each one is looked at twice, at a minimum. Awesome stuff gets passed around and all the graders will ogle it a bit. High end stuff gets more looks, or may pass by particular team members for the final OK.

    Bulk graders will do far, far more than 100-150 an hour. Depending on the type, 2-3x that usually. But they're usually doing 100+ of the same type at a minimum, and just sorting into stacks, so its a lot faster, especially stuff like NGC pre-screen where most dealers have the graders kicking out anything less than 63.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,083 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any PCGS graders on the fourm to confirm any of this?

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 8,710 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had understood from years ago, that 2 graders graded each coin and a third stepped in if a disagreement regarding the grade occurred. Don't know that this is currently the procedure, but would like to know. It would really be nice to have a video of the procedure of grading a coin with variety attribution with all the actual grading and attributing steps. I think that would be most interesting.
    Jim


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  • stockdude_stockdude_ Posts: 456 ✭✭✭

    @Vetter said:
    Just wondering how much time is spent looking at a coin for grading and how many dose a grader do in a day. Anyone have an idea?

    Ive heard 7 seconds per coin believe it or not

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 10,873 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stockdude_ said:

    @Vetter said:
    Just wondering how much time is spent looking at a coin for grading and how many dose a grader do in a day. Anyone have an idea?

    Ive heard 7 seconds per coin believe it or not

    Wow…. I guess I can see that with modern ASEs, etc….but can you imagine the type coin graders? I wouldn’t think you can determine if many coins are even genuine in 7 seconds, no less arrive at a sound grade decision.

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  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can usually tell by looking into a graders eyes at the end of their shift. :)

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  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,469 ✭✭✭✭

    @jt88 said:
    265,126 graded in 30 days.

    https://www.pcgs.com/statistics

    Not my 30 days.

    Received 01/27/2022

    No grades yet.

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  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @19Lyds said:

    @jt88 said:
    265,126 graded in 30 days.

    https://www.pcgs.com/statistics

    Not my 30 days.

    Received 01/27/2022

    No grades yet.

    You need to wait for another month. I have four orders received in 1/15 are still in grading.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 44,842 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It depends on what is being graded. Morgan dollars, Saints, and ASE's are fairly quick while early colonials, off metal error coins, or early mint issues take longer. In some cases a coin may be sent to a specialist for consultation which could take a few weeks.

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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    265,126 graded in 30 days seems like a lot... would equal about 18 per minute.... However, that does not include how many graders are working. If we assume teams of three (two graders one finalizer), that could mean for three teams, six coins per minute. Various possibilities, and I have heard they employ a 'lot' of graders. Cheers, RickO

  • ndeaglesndeagles Posts: 297 ✭✭✭✭

    @19Lyds said:

    @jt88 said:
    265,126 graded in 30 days.

    https://www.pcgs.com/statistics

    Not my 30 days.

    Received 01/27/2022

    No grades yet.

    I had 2 orders received 12/27. One was a regular (5 x peace$) , one was modern value with ASE/New peaceMorgan (18coins).

    My regular order went to QA Thursday and the grades popped friday, my modern value order went into encapsulation yesterday.

  • baddogssbaddogss Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭✭

    @jt88 said:

    @19Lyds said:

    @jt88 said:
    265,126 graded in 30 days.

    https://www.pcgs.com/statistics

    Not my 30 days.

    Received 01/27/2022

    No grades yet.

    You need to wait for another month. I have four orders received in 1/15 are still in grading.

    and then wait some more, regular service order received in 12/1/2021 - still in grading.

    more than 3 months!

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  • Panda4456Panda4456 Posts: 362 ✭✭✭

    Damn I just submitted a coin and I thought it would be fast. I guess I’ll check back in 3 months.

  • WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would definitely like to hear from a grader on the number of coins that they grade in a day.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have many coins I need to grade but I guess I will wait until next year to send.

  • jackpine20jackpine20 Posts: 118 ✭✭✭

    The video 'PCGS Founder's Roundtable' on youtube is very interesting. Watch it!

    Matt Snebold

  • MarkMark Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Way back when, David Hall used to pop in for Q/A once a week. I asked him how long it took to grade a coin and, as I recall, his answer was about 12 seconds. This was back circa 2001 when, I expect, PCGS did not have as many ASEs, etc submitted. So assuming these sorts of coins are graded a bit faster, maybe the average time is a touch lower today?

    Mark


  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,542 ✭✭✭✭✭

    dec 15 regular 10 coin still in grading??

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,392 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would require a particularly comfy chair to perform this job. I'm impressed with the statistics. Peace Roy

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  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess the most important point is that the amount of time spent grading each coin is however long it takes to get it right. Could be a few seconds, could be a few minutes or even longer.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,583 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How many coins can a coin grader grade if a coin grader could grade coins?

  • JW77JW77 Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭

    I wish I never opened this thread. I just don't understand on any classic gold or silver coin how you can look at bag marks on the field and the devices, degree of luster and most importantly, look at the smallest details to identify counterfeits, and do this on both the obverse and reverse. I would think a classic coin would take a minute to perform a complete "physical". A 2021 eagle I get, but not a classic.

  • WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @WAYNEAS said:
    I would definitely like to hear from a grader on the number of coins that they grade in a day.
    Wayne


    I worked as a grader 35 years ago and probably averaged 60 coins an hour, although it probably ranged from 40 to 150++ depending on what the coins were. I was one of the slower graders, so I’d guess that the other graders averaged more like 75-80 an hour. Also, this was before they were grading moderns and bullion coins. Otherwise, the numbers would have been significantly higher.

    Thanks for your response.
    I would not have thought that coins could be graded so fast, especially the older style / type coins.
    I learn something new every day.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have to believe there are exceptions; I would think authenticating a possible deceptive counterfeit would be cause for a longer review.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 44,842 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How many coins are graded without the grader ever using his magnifier/loupe?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,583 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JW77 said:
    I wish I never opened this thread. I just don't understand on any classic gold or silver coin how you can look at bag marks on the field and the devices, degree of luster and most importantly, look at the smallest details to identify counterfeits, and do this on both the obverse and reverse. I would think a classic coin would take a minute to perform a complete "physical". A 2021 eagle I get, but not a classic.

    A professional grader has graded so many coins that they can spot issues faster than most simply because they have honed their skills to that end. Makes sense, too, if you think about it.

    Everything I have ever read and heard is that’ll take the time necessary and if it takes a bit longer for some reason they’ll takes that time.

  • You try grading 20 raw saints or morgans. You'll find its not so quick and easy.

    graders have a tremendous amount of concentration. your eyes at some point will play tricks on you

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JW77 said:
    I wish I never opened this thread. I just don't understand on any classic gold or silver coin how you can look at bag marks on the field and the devices, degree of luster and most importantly, look at the smallest details to identify counterfeits, and do this on both the obverse and reverse. I would think a classic coin would take a minute to perform a complete "physical". A 2021 eagle I get, but not a classic.

    Counterfeits usually have different luster and color, so you don't necessarily have to go digging around for repeaters/flaws/gouges/etc. Graders will have a feel for what a coin of that date/mint should look like, and any deviation from that standard will pique interest and get further critique. Otherwise, review, loupe if necessary, and assign a grade.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • JW77JW77 Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭

    Cudos to the PCGS graders. I have tremendous trust in their work. It's just mind blowing how quickly they can assign a grade to a 100plus year old coin.

  • raysrays Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it would depend on what coin is being graded. Mint state Morgans probably could mostly be done in 20 seconds but a Chain cent would need authentication, rule-out significant problems such as tooling, and would likely be examined by an expert such as Gordy Wrubel.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @JW77 said:
    I wish I never opened this thread. I just don't understand on any classic gold or silver coin how you can look at bag marks on the field and the devices, degree of luster and most importantly, look at the smallest details to identify counterfeits, and do this on both the obverse and reverse. I would think a classic coin would take a minute to perform a complete "physical". A 2021 eagle I get, but not a classic.

    Counterfeits usually have different luster and color, so you don't necessarily have to go digging around for repeaters/flaws/gouges/etc. Graders will have a feel for what a coin of that date/mint should look like, and any deviation from that standard will pique interest and get further critique. Otherwise, review, loupe if necessary, and assign a grade.

    I'll keep the "different luster and color" in mind reviewing suspicious examples going forward...

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Another consideration is the lighting. In the grading room, where there are no windows and no overhead lighting, it's much easier to read the surfaces of a coin. Which probably knocks an average of (WAG) 30% off the time required to "accurately" grade coins. If you doubt that, try it at home.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @JW77 said:
    I wish I never opened this thread. I just don't understand on any classic gold or silver coin how you can look at bag marks on the field and the devices, degree of luster and most importantly, look at the smallest details to identify counterfeits, and do this on both the obverse and reverse. I would think a classic coin would take a minute to perform a complete "physical". A 2021 eagle I get, but not a classic.

    Counterfeits usually have different luster and color, so you don't necessarily have to go digging around for repeaters/flaws/gouges/etc. Graders will have a feel for what a coin of that date/mint should look like, and any deviation from that standard will pique interest and get further critique. Otherwise, review, loupe if necessary, and assign a grade.

    Then again, it's not always that easy. There were many more than a few times when I took 5+ minutes to try to figure out a piece that I considered suspicious, and that was long before the expert Chinese counterfeits came to market. But for every time consuming suspect coin, there would be 100 straight-from-the-bag 81-S Morgans or 1908 Saints that could be graded in 15 seconds or less. It all averaged out.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • VetterVetter Posts: 747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    After reading all the comments, I think it’s safe to say that with the number of coins that a grader looks at in a day. The 1938 D Buffalo that is submitted will not be talked about during coffee break. It must be nice to have the chance to grade unique coins in between all the “common” same old coins that make up the majority of the day. I don’t think I could do that day in and day out.

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  • I typically graded 1000-1200 coins/day during most of my time at PCGS. Depending upon the mixture of coins I would have worked anywhere from 6-12 hours during those days.
    During the peak years of the Members Only events and larger shows on site grading events I typically had to grade 1500-1800 coins per day.
    There was an event where we were so extremely busy that myself & another grader did over 2000 coins per day on at least 3 of the days. That was the most brutal show I had ever graded at during my 19+ years of grading.
    John Butler
    David Lawrence Rare Coins

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 44,842 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JohnBCoins said:
    There was an event where we were so extremely busy that myself & another grader did over 2000 coins per day on at least 3 of the days. That was the most brutal show I had ever graded at during my 19+ years of grading.
    John Butler
    David Lawrence Rare Coins

    Dang! That's enough to make you want to take up stamp collecting. :o

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JohnBCoins said:
    I typically graded 1000-1200 coins/day during most of my time at PCGS. Depending upon the mixture of coins I would have worked anywhere from 6-12 hours during those days.
    During the peak years of the Members Only events and larger shows on site grading events I typically had to grade 1500-1800 coins per day.
    There was an event where we were so extremely busy that myself & another grader did over 2000 coins per day on at least 3 of the days. That was the most brutal show I had ever graded at during my 19+ years of grading.
    John Butler
    David Lawrence Rare Coins

    Welcome to the forum!

    About your post, anything more than 8 hours a day sounds reckless to me. Did PCGS ever try to figure out if graders became less accurate after a certain number of hours at the desk? Seems easy enough for them to figure it out. Then again, maybe they didn't want to know the answer?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do wonder how many significant mistakes are made; we are all human and even trained professionals can make an occasional error.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I thought there were fewer and fewer classic US coins and more moderns and foreign issues getting graded. Does anyone have a percentage breakdown of the coins that are being graded?

  • WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can understand why so many people resubmit coins for upgrades at the rates of coins graded by an individual in a day.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

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