"Certified" 1916-D Dime- how many things wrong?
burfle23
Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
Past listing; so many things wrong so little time 
...
And after being reported:
0
burfle23
Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
That is actually one of the more convincing slabs that I've seen. The text and holograms would probably pass for real if you hadn't compared it to the cert images, but if you're buying a '16D you had better be looking at the cert images.
The big thing wrong with this counterfeit is that the coin isn't whizzed. I'm sure the mintmark and looks are off as well if we had better pictures of the coin. I do see that the 6 in the date is the entirely wrong shape, however. Thanks for the post!
Coin Photographer.
With NGC (and to a lesser extent, PCGS) feeling the edge of the counterfeit slab is telling. They are a bit rough.
peacockcoins
.
just so i'm on the correct page, the one on the left is obviously counterfeit but the one on the right is the one imaged on the cert page but it is listed as possibly counterfeit? i ask why.
i hope not just because it shares a counterfeited cert #. (i say this for a specific reason but is based on your response first)
not to pick on NGC but i've been wondering for years, with us living in the modern age, why is it so difficult for them to get quality mass images for the cert pages? i do really appreciate it but surely in this day and age getting high-quality images is possible? unless they are doing it intentionally to prevent counterfeiters from using the images in some nefarious manner?
Thanks for the heads up! Not my area of collecting but fake holders are a bit troublesome! Probably a bit easier to fake than the actual coin...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
You probably wouldn't put a genuine 16-d in a fake slab.
Besides the date looking obviously wrong on the fake, the die rotation also looks suspect.
Have you clicked on the certification images a couple of times to see how they can be magnified? I'll grant you that the image for a dime is still a bit small, but for the larger coins, I've found them to quite good.
i wasn't going to make this post but your post has elicited the desire from me to do so.
one of the spookiest areas of fraud (numismatically speaking but other collectables as well), imo, are authentic coins in well-done counterfeit holders where the coin is lower grade than the insert says. i haven't seen much posted about this since first i participated in the discussions MANY years ago. thankfully!!!!
people have even swapped various types of cards out of psa, bgs etc holders. swapped inserts etc. in this world, no holds are barred.
True, this one was pretty obvious... the coin, that is... but I'm looking at 18th Century Type coins where some of the counterfeit coins have ended up in actually slabs. IDK... seems to add an additional layer of complexity to ferreting out what's real and what's not.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
a bit +1 and while it can be a bit exciting working with that type of stuff and uncovering it, maybe perhaps more stimulating than exciting, it is simultaneously, at least for me exhausting. i do my counterfeit efforts from simply a lack of no other choice and i'd HIGHLY prefer we ALL not have to contend with it but that is a fantasy line of thought and if what i have seen in counterfeits world-wide, it will continue to get worse as oppose to better.
there are some great vids on the youtube showing those postal inspectors/officers picking out packages suspected of having counterfeit items. i've seen coins, auto parts, electronics, clothing/shoes etc etc etc etc.
it is pretty amazing how much our country gets bashed by the rest of the world and we've surely done some crazy chit but there are an awfully lot of people trying to get over here and also sell us their junk (to the tune of hundreds of millions or even billions in counterfeit goods).
i
our place as imperfect though she may be.
Well, NGC puts that note on the web cert to alert anyone looking it up there could be a problem with a fake using the same cert number. I think it pretty responsive to the potential problem.
Not to pick on PCGS, but I have wondered for years why NO images on most of the certs I look up; probably the most counterfeited slabs/ certs as a result.
.
ok. if that is their reasoning, it is good but i asked before saying this: i've seen hundreds, if not thousands of cert numbers used from authentic ngc/pcgs slabs and if they both did that with known certs that have been used, it is a GREAT psa but at the same time would have SOOOOOO many certs with alerts it would probably drop the stocks 20% or more. thousands upon thousands and that was years ago. now it could be in the tens of thousands of various fake cert #s.
it seems it would be more prudent but still effective to just have a note that states, "known counterfeited cert number." or something like that. BUT at least something is being done to help alert collectors/dealers.
it is nice that pcgs has finally integrated the TV into the grading system at a minimal cost (for now) and while it would be very useful to also have images of the slabs i do give pcgs BIG TIME credit for keeping pcgs legal VERY busy these many years/decades going after counterfeiters/sellers themselves and their criminal organizations. partly to protect their IP but also to protect numismatics (us). i've read/seen many of said cases but a pittance in the grand scheme. they keep it very quiet and i applaud them.
I don't know if this is relevant or 100% accurate but I remember years ago that slabs were coming out of the Bay Area where lessor grade 16-d mercs were being substituted in fake PCGS slabs. I.E. someone would buy an xf 16-d and use that cert and substitute a vf 16-d in the fake slab. Looked good if you didn't know how to grade.
Maybe someone with more knowledge might have better details.
I applauded PCGS's version in a post here recently:
Counterfeiting - coins, slabs, labels etc. - will never stop. We - as a community of collectors, dealers, TPG's- need to keep focused, watch for and report all noted anomalies. Keep up the fight... Cheers, RickO
.
.
.
if you see this pcgs, please change that font color. it is too close to the box background color. hard on the eyes you see.