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Amazing Brockage Error ... San Diego 1935 California Pacific International Exposition ... PCGS MS64

ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 26, 2022 12:17PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Here is an amazing piece that I just got in. Absolutely fantastic. This is my only piece of exonumia and I am so impressed with it and it's rarity. The medal is from my home city of San Diego B)

I tried to do some research on this (normal strike) piece and found very little information. Where are some resources to find out more information about this super cool aluminum medal?

Comments

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,721 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow! Is this a unique error type in the commem universe?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    Wow! Is this a unique error type in the commem universe?

    Fred stated that he thought this one is unique.

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    FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats - I didn't realize you were the winning bidder.

    That's been a favorite of mine for along time.........

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    Congrats - I didn't realize you were the winning bidder.

    That's been a favorite of mine for along time.........

    Thank you Fred. I am honored that this was one of your favorite pieces.

    I had to have this piece.

    I was born in San Diego as were my kids.

    My family has been it that tower before on a guided tour.

    I had never heard of this medal before.

    It is the strongest brockage I have ever seen.

    It has a nice mint state grade form PCGS.

    One of my favorites for sure.

    Thank you again, Chris

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    sumduncesumdunce Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭✭

    Wow! That is a very impressive coin.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2023 11:04AM

    I tried to do some research on this (normal strike) piece and found very little information. Where are some resource to find out more information about this super cool aluminum medal?

    Amazing pick up Chris! I would have bid on that if I had seen it but didn't!

    It's great that this was in @FredWeinberg's collection! You should try to get it reslabbed with Fred's special insert.

    I don't know much about this particular medal. A number of 25mm souvenir pieces were issued for this expo and this looks like one but I can't quite place it. Can you measure the diameter?

    At 25mm it would be a "So-Called Quarter", but there isn't really much of a collector following for anything smaller than what is listed in the Hibler & Kappen So-Called Dollars guide, which mostly starts at 33mm with some 32mm thrown in. For there to be a following for these, I think someone needs to create a catalog for So-Called Quarter pieces. I'd love to do one but it's one of those activities that I work in my spare time so it's taking a while. You can see my effort to get a So-Called Half Dollar cataloging effort going here:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1068442/hibler-and-kappen-so-called-half-dollars

    Hope this helps get you into So-Calleds ;)

    And by the way, here's the TrueView from Phil @PCGSPhoto :)



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    ByersByers Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Chris- great brockage!!

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,993 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Neat error!

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    DCWDCW Posts: 7,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Super nice error! I have a brockage of a famous Civil War token, and it's one of my favorites as well.
    Congrats

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

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    Dug13Dug13 Posts: 238 ✭✭✭

    Neat Error! — ¡ɹoɹɹƎ ʇɐǝN

    Wall of HONOR transaction list:WonderCoin, CoinFlip, Masscrew, Travintiques, lordmarcovan, Jinx86, Gerard, ElKevvo

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Certainly an interesting error... and the quality of the strike is even more impressive. The combination makes for a super impressive error coin. Cheers, RickO

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    BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice way for you to family bond,with a brockage.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
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    TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Amazing!

    Frank

    BHNC #203

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    KurisuKurisu Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wowee. A perfectly nailed error :blush: So lovely

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for all the wonderful comments about this awesome piece <3

    I am having trouble finding out any information about this medal.

    I had never seen or heard of it before I saw this example.

    This may sound like a dumb question but here it goes, ... Because the PCGS holder says "Mint Error" does this mean this medal was struck at the US Mint?

    Is there any information on the mintage numbers?

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    FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    EoC - it's not a US Mint issue as far as I know.

    • The term 'Mint Error' was used generically under the
      Mint Error tier.
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fred, thank you for the clarification.

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    JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice one!

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    2ltdjorn2ltdjorn Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭

    sold at auction for $145, which seems low and likely folks were not paying attention? curious on how one arrives at the current ask price of ~ $2500?

    WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!
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    Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 7:31AM

    $145 was spot on. Had it been silver I would have pushed it higher.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/384718135918?

    @2ltdjorn said:
    sold at auction for $145, which seems low and likely folks were not paying attention? curious on how one arrives at the current ask price of ~ $2500?

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,110 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LindyS said:
    $145 was spot on. Had it been silver I would have pushed it higher.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/384718135918?

    @2ltdjorn said:
    sold at auction for $145, which seems low and likely folks were not paying attention? curious on how one arrives at the current ask price of ~ $2500?

    Were you the underbidder?

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So easy to explain, so simple.

    First, I nuke bid that piece way, way higher. I was willing to pay multiples of the end price.

    This is one of my favorite pieces and my family loves it as well.

    My business plan requires that I put every coin I own in inventory.

    I priced this particular piece not to sell as I would not mind passing this on to my heirs. If it sells at the listed price, so be it.

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    Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No, once it went above $100 & was not silver I just watched.
    I watched all Freds ebay offers over the years.

    I assumed once this thread started it would be immediately available for sale at ebay, as usual.

    @Zoins said:

    @LindyS said:
    $145 was spot on. Had it been silver I would have pushed it higher.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/384718135918?

    @2ltdjorn said:
    sold at auction for $145, which seems low and likely folks were not paying attention? curious on how one arrives at the current ask price of ~ $2500?

    Were you the underbidder?

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 7:59AM

    @LindyS said:
    No, once it went above $100 & was not silver I just watched.
    I watched all Freds ebay offers over the years.

    I assumed once this thread started it would be immediately available for sale at ebay, as usual.

    @Zoins said:

    @LindyS said:
    $145 was spot on. Had it been silver I would have pushed it higher.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/384718135918?

    @2ltdjorn said:
    sold at auction for $145, which seems low and likely folks were not paying attention? curious on how one arrives at the current ask price of ~ $2500?

    Were you the underbidder?

    yes, that is in the business plan.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 8:04AM

    Now that Fred's auction has been mentioned, here's the original auction showing Fred's pedigree.

    By showing it here, I'm hoping PCGS will see this and be able to upgrade it with the special Fred insert.

    @FredWeinberg Any chance PCGS will reslab this with your special insert and pedigree?

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    Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I typically check your inventory link right after you post some new error coin arrival thread here at PCGS forums.
    You've amazed me being able to sell items at extreme markups. Your error coin sales market is very hot for you !

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @LindyS said:
    No, once it went above $100 & was not silver I just watched.
    I watched all Freds ebay offers over the years.

    I assumed once this thread started it would be immediately available for sale at ebay, as usual.

    @Zoins said:

    @LindyS said:
    $145 was spot on. Had it been silver I would have pushed it higher.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/384718135918?

    @2ltdjorn said:
    sold at auction for $145, which seems low and likely folks were not paying attention? curious on how one arrives at the current ask price of ~ $2500?

    Were you the underbidder?

    yes, that is in the business plan.

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @LindyS said:
    No, once it went above $100 & was not silver I just watched.
    I watched all Freds ebay offers over the years.

    I assumed once this thread started it would be immediately available for sale at ebay, as usual.

    @Zoins said:

    @LindyS said:
    $145 was spot on. Had it been silver I would have pushed it higher.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/384718135918?

    @2ltdjorn said:
    sold at auction for $145, which seems low and likely folks were not paying attention? curious on how one arrives at the current ask price of ~ $2500?

    Were you the underbidder?

    yes, that is in the business plan.

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    LOL, I just talked to my wife about this thread.

    She told me that she would be mad at me if I sold that Coin for $1000.

    I told her that the forum members would be mad at me if I sold the coin for $290 ;)

    I decided to price the coin to make my wife happy :)

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 8:41AM

    @ErrorsOnCoins Now that you have a taste, will you and your wife start collecting more San Diego tokens and medals? :)

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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 8:50AM

    Assuming that this is a brockage (and I'm pretty sure it is but not 100% sure), then the opposing medal which caused the brockage was a significantly later die state than the normal side. Some of the details are missing (presumably lapped off the die). For example, compare the outlined areas in this image:

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    @ErrorsOnCoins Now that you have a taste, will you and your wife start collecting more San Diego tokens and medals? :)

    Probably not as we got the best San Diego Token available on earth <3

    My wife actually likes really high end error coins with insane eye appeal.

    She has said to me more than once, "Why did you sell that awesome coin?" and my answer is, That is my job"

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 10:58AM

    @dcarr said:
    Assuming that this is a brockage (and I'm pretty sure it is but not 100% sure), then the opposing medal which caused the brockage was a significantly later die state than the normal side. Some of the details are missing. For example, compare the outlined areas in this image:

    I also get the feeling the brockage strike is stronger than the regular strike.

    This is the strongest brockage that I have ever seen on any coin.

    edit: I misread your post.

    I do see what you are seeing and which is quite interesting???

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 8:54AM

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @dcarr said:
    Assuming that this is a brockage (and I'm pretty sure it is but not 100% sure), then the opposing medal which caused the brockage was a significantly later die state than the normal side. Some of the details are missing. For example, compare the outlined areas in this image:

    I also get the feeling the brockage strike is stronger than the regular strike.

    This is the strongest brockage that I have ever seen on any coin.

    Very interesting.

    If the brockage strike is stronger than the regular strike, then would you still expect to see a loss of detail on the brockage side as mentioned?

    Dan indicates this is due to the brockage side being a later die state, which would be interesting because you would first need to strike the counter-brockage piece, and then strike this piece later, which wouldn't make sense, unless there were different dies used.

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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Another possibility is the the reversed side was struck by a different die. The two dies would form an embossing pair for use on thin stock.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 9:04AM

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @Zoins said:
    @ErrorsOnCoins Now that you have a taste, will you and your wife start collecting more San Diego tokens and medals? :)

    Probably not as we got the best San Diego Token available on earth <3

    My wife actually likes really high end error coins with insane eye appeal.

    She has said to me more than once, "Why did you sell that awesome coin?" and my answer is, That is my job"

    You should let your wife sticker the coins she likes:

    WAF: Wife Acceptance Factor :)

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 9:10AM

    @LindyS said:
    I typically check your inventory link right after you post some new error coin arrival thread here at PCGS forums.
    You've amazed me being able to sell items at extreme markups. Your error coin sales market is very hot for you !

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    @LindyS said:
    No, once it went above $100 & was not silver I just watched.
    I watched all Freds ebay offers over the years.

    I assumed once this thread started it would be immediately available for sale at ebay, as usual.

    @Zoins said:

    @LindyS said:
    $145 was spot on. Had it been silver I would have pushed it higher.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/384718135918?

    @2ltdjorn said:
    sold at auction for $145, which seems low and likely folks were not paying attention? curious on how one arrives at the current ask price of ~ $2500?

    Were you the underbidder?

    yes, that is in the business plan.

    The good thing about these posts is if I want it, I know where to find it.

    I hope no one buys it before I win the lottery :)

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Zions, OMG LOL ...... WAF :)

    She forced me to buy this one so it is WAF approved.

    $6000 for an ounce of gold?

    Watch for my new post on Saturday ;)

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins

    Chris- congrats on your purchase. Sounds like a great buy and it’s an amazing brockage.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Neat, but it's a major White Elephant...

    1.) Exonumists (token/medal collectors) don't want errors and those who might like it sure won't pay a major premium.

    2.) Error Coin Collectors don't want it as it's a token/medal and those who it would appeal to would just grab it if cheap.

    Personally, since I actually buy, collect, and sell both for the last 2 decades if I saw this cross eBay raw for as much as $75, I might grab it? Over $100 I'd probably pass as I don't see it having much value, as there's limited to no collector interest in the non-error expo medals as such.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 12:37PM

    @Broadstruck said:
    Neat, but it's a major White Elephant...

    1.) Exonumists (token/medal collectors) don't want errors and those who might like it sure won't pay a major premium.

    2.) Error Coin Collectors don't want it as it's a token/medal and those who it would appeal to would just grab it if cheap.

    Personally, since I actually buy, collect, and sell both for the last 2 decades if I saw this cross eBay raw for as much as $75, I might grab it? Over $100 I'd probably pass as I don't see it having much value, as there's limited to no collector interest in the non-error expo medals as such.

    The easy answer is don't buy it ;)

    I just wanted to share a cool medal.

    I am not trying to sell it. I do not want to sell it. I am however, required to post it to inventory.

    I would be extremely happy if I still had this medal 10 years from now.

    I would be extremely sad if this medal sold today at the listed price.

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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 12:10PM

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    The easy answer is don't buy it ;)

    I just wanted to share a cool medal.

    I am not trying to sell it. I do not want to sell it. I am required to post it to inventory.

    I would be extremely happy if I still had this medal 10 years from now.

    I would be extremely sad if this medal sold today at the listed price.

    https://ctferrorcoins.com/1935-PCGS-MS64-Brockage-San-Diego-Ca-Pacific-International-Exposition-Mint-Error-P5990794.aspx

    Our Price:
    $2,499.97 :D

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 12:44PM

    Let's talk rarity and how unique and collectable this piece is.

    The 1935 San Diego Silver Commemorative is a super popular coin.

    There is so much interest in the 1935 California Pacific International Exposition.

    IMO , the "Tower" design on this medal is a way better design than that of the 50C silver.

    My medal is struck in Aluminum which was a miracle metal at the time, silver was very common.

    I bet you my coin is way more rare than the very cool coin below. Mine is also unique. Mine may be way, way underpriced. The owner of the below coin may also want this one B)

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    Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 1:05PM

    $18,400 You red arrowed is a Coin, yours is a token/medal.
    So, you post your new purchase error coin threads that are for sale at ebay on PCGS Forums because you are required to ???

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    Let's talk rarity and how unique and collectable this piece is.

    The 1935 San Diego Silver Commemorative is a super popular coin.

    There is so much interest in the 1935 California Pacific International Exposition.

    IMO , the "Tower" design on this medal is a way better design than that of the 50C silver.

    My medal is struck in Aluminum which was a miracle metal at the time, silver was very common.

    I bet you my coin is way more rare than the very cool coin below. Mine is also unique. Mine may be way, way underpriced. The owner of the below coin may also want this one B)

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 1:14PM

    LindyS ... Get over it.

    I posted because this is a very cool medal. I like to share and educate.

    You are the one who brought up the listing so you are the one promoting it.

    Once again, I have a Business Plan, which requires that I put all coins into inventory.

    Bid higher next time, you still will not win :D

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    Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's all good Chris
    You have made some amazing error coin sales !!!
    I reevaluated what I would let my errors go for seeing how successful you've been over the last few years at fleabay.
    I've bought & held errors for 43 years. Lately I have considered an exit plan. Your business model is inspiring.

    Errors tend to be unique, slab numbers are specific. I have learned to be quick to respond to error offers as I shop at same error coin dealers you frequent.

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    Get over it.

    I posted because this is a very cool medal.

    You are the one who brought up the listing so you are the one promoting it.

    Once again, I have a Business Plan, which requires that I put all coins into inventory.

    Bid higher next time, you still will not win :D

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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LindyS said:
    It's all good Chris
    You have made some amazing error coin sales !!!
    I reevaluated what I would let my errors go for seeing how successful you've been over the last few years at fleabay.
    I've bought & held errors for 43 years. Lately I have considered an exit plan. Your business model is inspiring.

    Errors tend to be unique, slab numbers are specific. I have learned to be quick to respond to error offers as I shop at same error coin dealers you frequent.

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    Get over it.

    I posted because this is a very cool medal.

    You are the one who brought up the listing so you are the one promoting it.

    Once again, I have a Business Plan, which requires that I put all coins into inventory.

    Bid higher next time, you still will not win :D

    It's all good.

    You have some absolutely amazing errors.

    43 years of collecting errors, wow, you must be very far ahead financially as you know how much error coins have appreciated :)

    ...............

    As to pricing, any of you can do this as a mental exercise ....

    Say, you are forced to put your very favorite coin for sale to the public. With the caveat that you can price that coin at any price you stipulate. How much would you mark up your favorite coin to not be sold or if sold you would be happy?

    The OP coin is one of my favorite coins for sure.

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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 2:13PM

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:

    My medal is struck in Aluminum which was a miracle metal at the time, silver was very common.

    Woah P.T. Barnum Jr. take it easy as Aluminum was rare when the mint used in for patterns in 1870. It was advertised as the new miracle metal at the 1892-93 Chicago Columbian Expo World Fair. The Wright Brothers already used aluminum for an engine block in 1903.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2022 4:56PM

    I will defer to you on the above. I know you collect Exonumia.

    I only own one piece of Exonumia, but IMO it is the nicest one I have ever seen <3

    I thought I read aluminum was still a miracle medal in 1935 but the source could be incorrect or I may have been mistaken.

    What is the mintage of the 1935 San Diego California Pacific International Exposition Aluminum Medal?

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2022 11:57AM

    @FredWeinberg @SullivanNumismatics

    How does PCGS determine what is a "1st Strike Brockage"?

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