1959 PR Half, I'm Stunned this Turned Out
FlyingAl
Posts: 3,505 ✭✭✭✭✭
All, I managed to pick up a 1959 set this past week on Ebay for around $45, a rather high premium for one of these sets with the hope of landing a CAM half. Well, did it ever turn out. I took some pics just now, both in and out of the cello, just to show how most of the time a CAM will never really appear CAM in the cellophane packaging. 1959 is a notoriously tough date for Franklin CAMs, the master dies were reworked in 1960, so in '59 they never really gave the half dies a full acid soak to preserve the details. As many know, this acid soak gave the coins their frost, so less soak=less CAM. I grade this coin a 65 - 66, I'm not really sure how the haze will affect the grade, but I will probably soak in acetone to see if it will come off.
Below are the pics. And before you ask, no that is not a fingerprint in the right obverse field, that's some haze on the coin that was there when I pulled it form the cello. It also seems that my exposure meter on my camera was acting up today so I will put two exposures of the obverse out of the cello. Any comments welcome!
Full set obverse (cello)
Full set reverse (cello)
Half obverse (cello)
Half reverse (cello)
Half obverse high exposure (no cello)
Half obverse low exposure (no cello)
Half reverse (no cello)
Coin Photographer.
Comments
Astute purchase Buddy! These Cam 1959's are not plentiful. According to Tomaska, the 1959 is THE toughest date to find in Gem cameo condition! Congrats!
Now if you can get a Dcam out of PCGS, you really have something! hope so! Good looking pieces.
Can it CAM, or DCAM, without cameo contrast in the lettering, as at least some of the photos appear to show? I always thought that was what held back some otherwise cameo designations on this type.
Tom
@TPRC, generally yes. Below is a graded DCAM with almost no frost on TRUST. The 1959 I had has some pretty strong frost on the letters, generally strong CAMs will have frost breaks on the letters that evens out as the frost fades off the die. They TPGs in my opinion like to try and grade the main devices as much as they can for contrast rather than the letters. I could of course be wrong on this though.
Coin Photographer.
@Eldorado9 I sure hope I can get a DCAM out of this one from PCGS, it’ll be a long shot though. I’ll definitely be sending it off though!
Coin Photographer.
this is a mint set coin, correct? the coin looks proof like.
excellent strike, full bell lines for sure.
It's a proof set.
Awesome frosty, dude!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Amazing that the mint holder muted the frost so much.
Are those hairlines in the right field?
That's a beautiful coin 🪙
The mint sets have red and blue borders. Clear borders indicate a proof set.
That is a very nice Franklin Half Dollar..... It looks like it could go CAM.... That determination requires in hand scrutiny. Best of luck and let us know the results. Cheers, RickO
Very nice piece. Hard to find nice '59's in cameo. It's hard to grade from photos, but it looks to me that there are some hairlines above the date that will keep it from a super high grade. I'd think more like 65, maybe 66. The frost looks solid enough for a cameo - dcam is not likely because the fields are not super deep in some areas. My guess- 65 cameo.
Here are a couple of mine for comparison 67 cameo (borderline dcam imho)
And a 66 dcam
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
@Cameonut and @davewesen Yes those are hairlines in the right field, I definitely think it will limit it to a 66 but if I can get the haze off no further because they are the only hairlines on the coin and I only counted about 3-4 obvious hairlines. The rest aren’t that noticeable, so fingers crossed!
The mirrors in hand are much deeper than the photos show but I still don’t expect DCAM, but I’d be surprised if it didn’t at least CAM. Thanks for the opinions all!
Coin Photographer.
Very nice half! Shame about the hairlines there, it just takes one person over the years to grab the cello pack by the half and it slides in the package. That's my theory anyway.
I would recommend MS70 for haze removal, although a dip would probably yield equivalent results.
Collector, occasional seller
@ChrisH821 That used to me my theory too. I honestly now don’t think that the cello is rough enough to create hairlines on the coin’s surface, and if it was the cello it doesn’t really explain why the hairlines aren’t consistent on obverse and reverse. I think it must have had something to do with the packaging process, but it’s all theory at this point because we don’t know exactly how they packed these sets.
Coin Photographer.
My thought is that the reverse doesn't have large open fields like the obverse, so only the higher points, the eagle in this case, would be contacted by the cello.
Might be something worth experimenting on with some junky proof sets.
Collector, occasional seller
ive intentionally and unintentionally put fingerprints/grease on proof coins before and it was my first thought when i saw that coin. figured i'd see some commentary about dipping that stuff off.
there are some brown splatters on the obv which seem to coincide with that obv at k2 and the "greasy" area seems a bit more brown than what my previous proof surface contacts with my fingers have been. it more looks like the grease used at the mints long ago. i also have no idea about the packaging but if the packing itself isn't tampered and the op didn't do something silly, then it had to be them.
i look forward to seeing it properly dipped/rinse off.
@ChrisH821 I did at one point out a proof junk quarter between cello and rub pretty hard on the surface, I don’t remember causing any hairlines. This was a while ago so I’ll have to redo the experiment. @LanceNewmanOCC you can kinda see the brown haze through the cello in the full set pics, when I cut it out I handled it only by the edges for images and straight into a flip so I’m pretty confident it wasn’t me. I’m not sure of the cello was the cause of the haze, I was referring to if the cello caused hairlines in the post you quoted. I think it was just a simple misunderstanding
Coin Photographer.
Nice pick up no matter what.
It is difficult to say CAM or DCAM from the pictures.
Wish you success.
Let us know what the TPG says.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Interesting coin. Very unusual to find a 1959 half with two sided frost sufficient to warrant a CAM designation.
I submitted such a 1959 half to PCGS last year which I hoped would CAM. It did not, The True View photo of that coin (plus looking at it in hand) left me scratching my head.
If you submit your coin for grading let the Forum know the results.
All, I will definitely be submitting this coin in the future. I’m still waiting to pull together 8 coins for a voucher submission, I think this is number seven. I will let you know when I send it to PCGS but with turnaround times taking so long who knows when we’ll have the results. I would almost guarantee a CAM, but we shall see
Coin Photographer.
I think your chances at CAM are pretty good, but don't see a DCAM there. Not enough depth to the fields in my opinion. I finally made a 59 half in 67 CAM a couple years ago after a decade of submissions.
@ModCrewman, I honestly don’t think DCAM is there either, just because of how tough the graders are on these and the huge value jump, not to mention it might not make it on the standards anyways. Making one in CAM would be great anyways, 59s in any type of frosted condition seem to be really scarce.
Coin Photographer.
Also @ChrisH821 I redid my experiment with cello and hairlines.
I took a 1964 quarter with some milk spots from a set that I had cut and Accented Hair out off and cut it out. No hairlines on the coin, looks to grade 67. I then put it back into the two halves of cello.
After rubbing pretty vigorously in two different trials, and did not create any hairlines. I did, however impart a weird kind of toning spear that looked like a gray haze. It also contained spots. I have no idea if it was just the set packaging in this one case as the half was pretty milk spotted as well. Rather interesting result IMO.
Coin Photographer.
Some before and after pics would be appreciated.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
@WAYNEAS Before pictures won’t be possible with this trial but I can do after pics. I am also more than happy to do another test with a fresh quarter from a different set that I cut an accented hair out of.
If that is something that you guys would like to know I can start a new thread and redo the experiment with lots of pictures, just let me know.
Coin Photographer.
Update- for those of you with Rick Tomaska's book on 1950-1970 cameo proofs, this coin appears to be an early die state of die pair number 46 (image 46) for 1959. The extra frost on the lower right bell is a match.
I am planning to conserve this coin this weekend, we've been having some sub zero temperatures lately so I'm waiting for the weather to warm up so I can go outside and get good ventilation. I hope acetone works on this one but I am also considering trying @SanctionII's method with a 4:1 solution of water and ezest.
Coin Photographer.
Good luck.
Post photos of the coin post dip.
@Sanctionll @LanceNewmanOCC
I was able to successfully remove the haze in the left obverse field. A quick dip in Ezest followed by a rinse in acetone did the trick, but revealed a few lighter hairlines. I took a lot of images at multiple angles to give you a representation of the coin in hand. Any comments are appreciated!
Coin Photographer.
Amazing results. @FlyingAl
Nice pictures also.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
.
appreciate the mention. i LOVE follow-up. that thing is pr69dcam all-day! gr8 work.
@LanceNewmanOCC Haha I think 65CAM, but I wouldn’t complain with a 69DCAM! This will be sent off soon to PCGS. I think it has a legit shot at deep cameo, for some reason the mirrors never come out in the pics.
Coin Photographer.
looks really nice!!!!
@cameonut2011
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"