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1878-CC Morgan Dollar Possible Under Grade?

C2CC2C Posts: 108 ✭✭✭


I'm looking for some guidance and advice on a 1878-CC Morgan Dollar I purchased some time ago. The coin itself is, in my opinion, very nice. It was graded previous to my owning it at a Mint State 65 by PCGS with Gold Shield Service and TruView with NFC.

I also own a PCGS MS66 in 1878-CC and I believe my MS65 to be the nicer of the two coins. I know that occasionally, coins may be over graded and under graded. My question is, based off of the photos I will upload, does the coin appear reasonably under-graded? If so, what is the most successful method in having the coin upgraded to the MS66 I would like to see it in?

  1. I've compared this coin to a significant number of 1878-CC MS65 in PCGS holders
  2. I've submitted the coin for review by professional dealers 16 times and all agree, without leading them, that they believe the coin is under-graded.
  3. I've compared this coin to a vast number of 1878-CC MS65 in NGC holders.
  4. I've compared this coin side by side with my own MS66 as well as side by side with dealers with mine and their MS66's when they have had one.

Ultimately, the value of the coin is set by the grade the third party grade lists on it. I also realize as the owner of the coin, I may both over value and over grade the coin in my opinions. I have attempted to be critical, but continually come to the same conclusion that the coin belongs in a MS66 holder. What do you experienced collectors and dealers believe based on my photos under different lights and angles?

If the coin is under graded, what is the most successful method in obtaining the higher grade with PCGS? Any guidance would be helpful and appreciated.


  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, I stopped at the first picture = COUNTERFEIT. And I was through....

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • mcarney1173mcarney1173 Posts: 890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coin matches the Trueview image. Very confident that it is genuine coin and holder. Looks accurately graded at MS65 also.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 31,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The hit in the dentil under the first 8 tells me it's a match for the TV.
    Nice coin,
    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • Has it been to CAC? Most of the time, especially for coins graded in more recent history, when a coin looks like a higher grade that what it has been given, it has likely been net graded for something that is technically market acceptable. If you send it to CAC and it doesn't bean, you know the issue is substantial enough to hold it to the lowest level even at 65. If it green beans, it could be a "C" 66 and worthy of a crack/resubmission. If it gold beans, then you're in the money!

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,393 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it is graded correctly as MS65, that does not mean that it could not receive a grade of MS66 in the future. The most cost effective method is to crack it out and submit it raw, that has some inherent risks especially if there is some issue that you have not spotted. If you send in under reconsideration you avoid the risks of the crackout, however some feel that there is some bias in that submission method and if it upgrades you will be charged the extra 1% fee. As this is not a valuable old holder you could also go with the regrade option, that way it will be graded raw and you have no risk of damaging the coin during the crackout process and you are assured to get the coin back in at least an MS65 holder, also no extra 1% fee.

    While I think it will stay the same I would opt for the regrade option in this case, lowest risk, highest possible reward, pretty much a win/win for you in my mind.

    You could send to CAC if you have that option too, very low risk and depending on how that turns out you can move forward with any submissions to PCGS.

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  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 8,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hard question to answer from photos only, I would think if it truly deserves an upgrade, a trip to CAC would garner a gold bean and then the value would increase while remaining in the 65 wrapper. Just my opinion.

    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

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  • RexfordRexford Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s a little overdipped, even if technically pretty clean. I think 65 is right.

  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great post and great coin! In my opinion (and so glad the TVs were provided) I think the coin is a 65. I say this because to be a 66 it really needs more luster - not as much to do with the scuffs and so forth - which this coin has minimal marks and is a really preserved example - but it is just not a very lustrous surface imo.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on the pictures, which do show good angles and direct images, it appears to be properly graded. I do believe it would get a green bean -indicating the upper level of the grade. Let us know what you decide to do, so we can share the journey. Cheers, RickO

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,070 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    Wow, I stopped at the first picture = COUNTERFEIT. And I was through....

    @7Jaguars, you shouldn’t have been through.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • coastaljerseyguycoastaljerseyguy Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree the luster is a little soft and the hit on the nose doesn't help for a 66. Still a beautiful coin and a very good chance at a green bean. A lot of CC's with more chatter/hits are graded 65 also but they have booming luster. This one is missing that.

  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,422 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2022 6:30PM

    IMO it fits the assigned grade based on the images.

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  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,041 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a current 65 to me, hold onto it for another year or two and gradeflation will probably get it to 65+-66. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,418 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2022 9:36PM

    Looks accurately graded at 65 to me, based on the pictures.

    Mark wise, it looks 65+ - shot 66, but the luster appears slightly impaired from a past dip, which is likely why it was assigned a 65.

  • C2CC2C Posts: 108 ✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2022 3:50PM

    Hi and thank you everyone for the counsel and opinions. My thoughts on this one are that it presents as a 66 with respect to marks, strike, overall appearance, BUT, the luster is obviously a big deal and either is not transferring in the photos, or as so many aptly pointed out, is dimmed.

    I was not the original "raw" coin owner, so I'll certainly admit it could well have been dipped by someone many times, which would be most unfortunate. I think the best approach mentioned, and the one I will take, was mentioned or recommended by a few above including "Coinbuf". I will submit for regrade so I do not risk an unknown flaw and crack it to get it back a terribly tragic "details" grade. If fortunate, I get an upgrade to a +, or 66, if not, it's a very nice MS65. I want to toss up a few photos of my MS66 and see if the luster mentioned is just not transferring in photos, or at least get some opinion of the two coins in comparison.

    On, as for the guy who claimed counterfeit... No, nevermind. Not worth it...

  • C2CC2C Posts: 108 ✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2022 3:52PM

    Here are some of my MS66. What do you think? Especially compared to the MS65 above?

  • C2CC2C Posts: 108 ✭✭✭

    Just a side note. When showing both of my MS65-CC's, if I cover the label, NO ONE has chosen the MS66. Everyone has picked the MS65...

  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    I love that coin as a high end 65. Worth a shot as 66 for sure. Send it back in!

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,502 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would be pleasantly happy knowing I own an MS65 within the top aspect of the grade VS a coin in a grade higher yet at the lowest end of that grade.
    Leave it alone and enjoy owning a better coin than most others within the grade instead of knowing you have a coin that barely made it into the next grade up.


  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,418 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most of those 66s look much cleaner mark-wise to me than the 65, so this would reinforce for me that 65 is the correct grade.

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,393 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The MS66 coin has a less"busy" cheek and the cheek is more full and rounded, luster also looks a tad better. It has the higher grade because it is the better coin imo.

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  • C2CC2C Posts: 108 ✭✭✭

    Thanks everyone.

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