@Gazes said:
One piece of advice for those who want to buy expensive coins----sell one. When you see that there are plenty of deep pockets out there and your coin is expensive for a reason you will sleep better with your other coins. This assumes you did some due diligence on the value and the condition before buying the coin.
I admit that top pop or near top PCGS coins have done very well, but I think the market is far more thinly capitalized than you think.
Depends on your price point. Million dollar coins---yes, there are small group of buyers. Mid five figure coins---there are many more buyers than you think.
Can you share with us your numismatic background?
We have a whole forum of people giving their opinions and I'm the only one required to give me credentials! Lol. I've collected coins at various levels for 30 years. I love coins.
@Gazes said:
One piece of advice for those who want to buy expensive coins----sell one. When you see that there are plenty of deep pockets out there and your coin is expensive for a reason you will sleep better with your other coins. This assumes you did some due diligence on the value and the condition before buying the coin.
I admit that top pop or near top PCGS coins have done very well, but I think the market is far more thinly capitalized than you think.
Depends on your price point. Million dollar coins---yes, there are small group of buyers. Mid five figure coins---there are many more buyers than you think.
Can you share with us your numismatic background?
We have a whole forum of people giving their opinions and I'm the only one required to give me credentials! Lol. I've collected coins at various levels for 30 years. I love coins.
I think he was trying to assess how well you would know the market.
I'm always amazed at how many 5 figure bidders there are.
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
This advice is not very actionable, IMO. Sure, if an obviously nicer version of the same issue is available for a small premium, it is usually better to pick up the nicer one. Moreover, for most of us with limited budgets, collecting is about compromises. Sometimes you compromise by selecting a less expensive series or less expensive grade within the series. Sometimes you compromise by purchasing fewer coins (spacing out your purchases). Sometimes you compromise by purchasing the lower quality coin because that is all that is likely to be available to you. Nobody sets out to intentionally overpay for a crappy coin (however you would define it).
@Gazes said: If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that.
I don’t agree with this, unless you mean stand out in a registry sense. For example, someone with patience and a good eye could put together a set of classic commens that truly stands out, with all coins a grade or two below the technically finest known.
I generally wouldn’t recommend buying the best you can afford. I might recommend buying the best you understand.
From the get go, the mantra "Buy the coin, not the plastic" had been instilled in me by a few old timers. Probably one of the major reasons I stayed with fillingup Danscos with whatever could be afforded and bargain hunted. May not be the very best, but they are mine at a price that am comfortable ponying up for it.
No regrets because it had been a fun journey and the satisfaction derived upon completion of albums was immense, eye candy that a stack of slabs somehow has never given me so far.
What is that saying about doing the same thing over and over and continuing to expect different results?
.
Practice makes perfect? 😉
100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
@Higashiyama said: @Gazes said: If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that.
I don’t agree with this, unless you mean stand out in a registry sense. For example, someone with patience and a good eye could put together a set of classic commens that truly stands out, with all coins a grade or two below the technically finest known.
In general I agree with you that someone could buy the lower grade and if they were very picky and only bought high end coins for the grade, the collector could have a collection that would stand out for lesser money. However, in the most popular series those very high end coins would probably be stickered. The reason is that they would trade for a higher premium with a sticker and dealers are not in the business of leaving money on the table. So let say you collect Peace Dollars at the highest grade before the spread increases. You would still most likely pay some spread to get those higher end coins before the grade jump. For instance, the 1925-s in 64 has auction results around $500. In MS 64 CAC it is around $1000. In mS 65 non cac $15,000 and in MS 65 CAC around 38,000 and up. In other words, you can collect the high end1925-s in PCGS 64 but to get truly high end 64 you may have to pay double the price as an "average" 64. There is no free lunch.
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors.
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors.
I think you underestimate the amount of amazing collections out there. There are many people on this forum who have collections that stand out. Look at the registry and see all the amazing collections out there. I have had some top dealers tell me the majority of their best customers do not post on forums or have registry sets. Seems like every month there are collections that were formed being sold on auction with amazing coins from collectors we previously never heard of. It is hard to say what percentage of collections "stand out" because it is hard to define the collector universe. I don't count the guy who comes up to me in my office and shows me the coins from his dad but then never thinks about coins again. He doesn't read about coins, doesn't search for new coins and basically coins are an afterthought. In my mind he really isn't a coin collector. I have some nice antique furniture from my family but just because I own it does not make me an antique collector. Whatever the percentage, there are alot of collections that stand out. Your comment that "building collections that stand out does not apply to 99+% of all collectors" reminds me of a golfing partner I had. He got some satisfaction by grouping everyone's play together by declaring after every missed shot "we all suck". One time I was playing particularly well and was a couple over par after 15 holes. I finally hit a bad drive and he immediately declared "we all suck." So whatever the percentage there are lots of collectors doing some amazing things and have collections that stand out.
PS---I ended up making par on the hole that began with the bad drive
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors. \
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors.
I think you underestimate the amount of amazing collections out there. There are many people on this forum who have collections that stand out. Look at the registry and see all the amazing collections out there. I have had some top dealers tell me the majority of their best customers do not post on forums or have registry sets. Seems like every month there are collections that were formed being sold on auction with amazing coins from collectors we previously never heard of. It is hard to say what percentage of collections "stand out" because it is hard to define the collector universe. I don't count the guy who comes up to me in my office and shows me the coins from his dad but then never thinks about coins again. He doesn't read about coins, doesn't search for new coins and basically coins are an afterthought. In my mind he really isn't a coin collector. I have some nice antique furniture from my family but just because I own it does not make me an antique collector. Whatever the percentage, there are alot of collections that stand out. Your comment that "building collections that stand out does not apply to 99+% of all collectors" reminds me of a golfing partner I had. He got some satisfaction by grouping everyone's play together by declaring after every missed shot "we all suck". One time I was playing particularly well and was a couple over par after 15 holes. I finally hit a bad drive and he immediately declared "we all suck." So whatever the percentage there are lots of collectors doing some amazing things and have collections that stand out.
PS---I ended up making par on the hole that began with the bad drive
I think you underestimate the total number of collections. I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
I'm not saying there are no great collections out there or on this board. But that can't be the goal of 99% of us or the number of collectors is going to shrink considerably.
So how many US collections do you think are out there that "stand out"? There is no dollar threshold but collections that would be difficult to replicate without years of serious effort.
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors. \
Of course mine does! To Me!
And that is all that matters. If your happy with what you have collected, So be it.
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors.
I think you underestimate the amount of amazing collections out there. There are many people on this forum who have collections that stand out. Look at the registry and see all the amazing collections out there. I have had some top dealers tell me the majority of their best customers do not post on forums or have registry sets. Seems like every month there are collections that were formed being sold on auction with amazing coins from collectors we previously never heard of. It is hard to say what percentage of collections "stand out" because it is hard to define the collector universe. I don't count the guy who comes up to me in my office and shows me the coins from his dad but then never thinks about coins again. He doesn't read about coins, doesn't search for new coins and basically coins are an afterthought. In my mind he really isn't a coin collector. I have some nice antique furniture from my family but just because I own it does not make me an antique collector. Whatever the percentage, there are alot of collections that stand out. Your comment that "building collections that stand out does not apply to 99+% of all collectors" reminds me of a golfing partner I had. He got some satisfaction by grouping everyone's play together by declaring after every missed shot "we all suck". One time I was playing particularly well and was a couple over par after 15 holes. I finally hit a bad drive and he immediately declared "we all suck." So whatever the percentage there are lots of collectors doing some amazing things and have collections that stand out.
PS---I ended up making par on the hole that began with the bad drive
I think you underestimate the total number of collections. I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
I'm not saying there are no great collections out there or on this board. But that can't be the goal of 99% of us or the number of collectors is going to shrink considerably.
While I agree with you, I think the reason is that most “important” collections end up at auction rather than being bought by dealers. So dealers see more “junk collections.”
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors.
I think you underestimate the amount of amazing collections out there. There are many people on this forum who have collections that stand out. Look at the registry and see all the amazing collections out there. I have had some top dealers tell me the majority of their best customers do not post on forums or have registry sets. Seems like every month there are collections that were formed being sold on auction with amazing coins from collectors we previously never heard of. It is hard to say what percentage of collections "stand out" because it is hard to define the collector universe. I don't count the guy who comes up to me in my office and shows me the coins from his dad but then never thinks about coins again. He doesn't read about coins, doesn't search for new coins and basically coins are an afterthought. In my mind he really isn't a coin collector. I have some nice antique furniture from my family but just because I own it does not make me an antique collector. Whatever the percentage, there are alot of collections that stand out. Your comment that "building collections that stand out does not apply to 99+% of all collectors" reminds me of a golfing partner I had. He got some satisfaction by grouping everyone's play together by declaring after every missed shot "we all suck". One time I was playing particularly well and was a couple over par after 15 holes. I finally hit a bad drive and he immediately declared "we all suck." So whatever the percentage there are lots of collectors doing some amazing things and have collections that stand out.
PS---I ended up making par on the hole that began with the bad drive
I think you underestimate the total number of collections. I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
I'm not saying there are no great collections out there or on this board. But that can't be the goal of 99% of us or the number of collectors is going to shrink considerably.
While I agree with you, I think the reason is that most “important” collections end up at auction rather than being bought by dealers. So dealers see more “junk collections.”
I think this is a valid observation. Especially now since it appears auctions have become the place to sell.
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors.
I think you underestimate the amount of amazing collections out there. There are many people on this forum who have collections that stand out. Look at the registry and see all the amazing collections out there. I have had some top dealers tell me the majority of their best customers do not post on forums or have registry sets. Seems like every month there are collections that were formed being sold on auction with amazing coins from collectors we previously never heard of. It is hard to say what percentage of collections "stand out" because it is hard to define the collector universe. I don't count the guy who comes up to me in my office and shows me the coins from his dad but then never thinks about coins again. He doesn't read about coins, doesn't search for new coins and basically coins are an afterthought. In my mind he really isn't a coin collector. I have some nice antique furniture from my family but just because I own it does not make me an antique collector. Whatever the percentage, there are alot of collections that stand out. Your comment that "building collections that stand out does not apply to 99+% of all collectors" reminds me of a golfing partner I had. He got some satisfaction by grouping everyone's play together by declaring after every missed shot "we all suck". One time I was playing particularly well and was a couple over par after 15 holes. I finally hit a bad drive and he immediately declared "we all suck." So whatever the percentage there are lots of collectors doing some amazing things and have collections that stand out.
PS---I ended up making par on the hole that began with the bad drive
I think you underestimate the total number of collections. I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
I'm not saying there are no great collections out there or on this board. But that can't be the goal of 99% of us or the number of collectors is going to shrink considerably.
While I agree with you, I think the reason is that most “important” collections end up at auction rather than being bought by dealers. So dealers see more “junk collections.”
This is true. The LESS THAN 1% of collections that are noteworthy end up at auction. That doesn't really change the calculation. 99+% of all collections are not noteworthy in any way. Don't get me wrong, I don't see this as a problem. But I do think that you have to recognize that what motivates that 99+% of all collectors is NOT building a collection of note.
Let me be clear about something since I see a lot of posts that say something like "collect however you want so long as it makes you happy." Of course ! I certainly have never said anything to the contrary. There was an OP about buying at the spread before the price goes up---my comments originated with my thoughts about that collecting strategy. Also be aware that "whatever makes you happy" includes people who enjoy competing on the registry, people who (gasp) want to have the best registry set, collectors who want collections that stand out, collectors who like the challenge of trying to invest in coins, etc. Sometimes it seems like a one way street on here----do whatever makes you happy unless you like expensive coins, you like CAC coins, you want to have a world class collection, etc,.
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors.
I think you underestimate the amount of amazing collections out there. There are many people on this forum who have collections that stand out. Look at the registry and see all the amazing collections out there. I have had some top dealers tell me the majority of their best customers do not post on forums or have registry sets. Seems like every month there are collections that were formed being sold on auction with amazing coins from collectors we previously never heard of. It is hard to say what percentage of collections "stand out" because it is hard to define the collector universe. I don't count the guy who comes up to me in my office and shows me the coins from his dad but then never thinks about coins again. He doesn't read about coins, doesn't search for new coins and basically coins are an afterthought. In my mind he really isn't a coin collector. I have some nice antique furniture from my family but just because I own it does not make me an antique collector. Whatever the percentage, there are alot of collections that stand out. Your comment that "building collections that stand out does not apply to 99+% of all collectors" reminds me of a golfing partner I had. He got some satisfaction by grouping everyone's play together by declaring after every missed shot "we all suck". One time I was playing particularly well and was a couple over par after 15 holes. I finally hit a bad drive and he immediately declared "we all suck." So whatever the percentage there are lots of collectors doing some amazing things and have collections that stand out.
PS---I ended up making par on the hole that began with the bad drive
I think you underestimate the total number of collections. I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
I'm not saying there are no great collections out there or on this board. But that can't be the goal of 99% of us or the number of collectors is going to shrink considerably.
While I agree with you, I think the reason is that most “important” collections end up at auction rather than being bought by dealers. So dealers see more “junk collections.”
This is true. The LESS THAN 1% of collections that are noteworthy end up at auction. That doesn't really change the calculation. 99+% of all collections are not noteworthy in any way. Don't get me wrong, I don't see this as a problem. But I do think that you have to recognize that what motivates that 99+% of all collectors is NOT building a collection of note.
You keep using percentages---by gross numbers how many collections do you believe exists that "stand out" as we defined above?
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors.
I think you underestimate the amount of amazing collections out there. There are many people on this forum who have collections that stand out. Look at the registry and see all the amazing collections out there. I have had some top dealers tell me the majority of their best customers do not post on forums or have registry sets. Seems like every month there are collections that were formed being sold on auction with amazing coins from collectors we previously never heard of. It is hard to say what percentage of collections "stand out" because it is hard to define the collector universe. I don't count the guy who comes up to me in my office and shows me the coins from his dad but then never thinks about coins again. He doesn't read about coins, doesn't search for new coins and basically coins are an afterthought. In my mind he really isn't a coin collector. I have some nice antique furniture from my family but just because I own it does not make me an antique collector. Whatever the percentage, there are alot of collections that stand out. Your comment that "building collections that stand out does not apply to 99+% of all collectors" reminds me of a golfing partner I had. He got some satisfaction by grouping everyone's play together by declaring after every missed shot "we all suck". One time I was playing particularly well and was a couple over par after 15 holes. I finally hit a bad drive and he immediately declared "we all suck." So whatever the percentage there are lots of collectors doing some amazing things and have collections that stand out.
PS---I ended up making par on the hole that began with the bad drive
Actually, you're the one who is doing the equivalent of declaring "we all suck". When you say that people are trying to build collections of note, you are declaring "we are all great". My point is that "collections of note" ignores the 99% of us that are not doing that and can not do that. I am NOT and have NOT in any way denied the existence of collections of note. There are thousands of collections of note. But there are millions of collectors, 99.9% of whom do not have noteworthy collections at all.
The whole - buy the best you can afford - has been amended on this thread as to whether you should buy the Top Pop coin or the one right beneath it. The best you can afford for most people is the choice between a VF 1922-D cent and an XF 1922-D cent not the choice between an MS66 RED and an MS 65 RB. "Most" people don't even get to decide between an AG 1916-D and a Good 1916-D Mercury dime because they don't ever spend that much money on a single coin.
I don't mean this to be negative. It is just a market reality. And 99% of us are happy with our $10 coins and the dream of some day buying an AG 1916-D Mercury dime or, better yet, finding one in junk silver.
@Gazes said:
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors.
I think you underestimate the amount of amazing collections out there. There are many people on this forum who have collections that stand out. Look at the registry and see all the amazing collections out there. I have had some top dealers tell me the majority of their best customers do not post on forums or have registry sets. Seems like every month there are collections that were formed being sold on auction with amazing coins from collectors we previously never heard of. It is hard to say what percentage of collections "stand out" because it is hard to define the collector universe. I don't count the guy who comes up to me in my office and shows me the coins from his dad but then never thinks about coins again. He doesn't read about coins, doesn't search for new coins and basically coins are an afterthought. In my mind he really isn't a coin collector. I have some nice antique furniture from my family but just because I own it does not make me an antique collector. Whatever the percentage, there are alot of collections that stand out. Your comment that "building collections that stand out does not apply to 99+% of all collectors" reminds me of a golfing partner I had. He got some satisfaction by grouping everyone's play together by declaring after every missed shot "we all suck". One time I was playing particularly well and was a couple over par after 15 holes. I finally hit a bad drive and he immediately declared "we all suck." So whatever the percentage there are lots of collectors doing some amazing things and have collections that stand out.
PS---I ended up making par on the hole that began with the bad drive
I think you underestimate the total number of collections. I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
I'm not saying there are no great collections out there or on this board. But that can't be the goal of 99% of us or the number of collectors is going to shrink considerably.
So how many US collections do you think are out there that "stand out"? There is no dollar threshold but collections that would be difficult to replicate without years of serious effort.
I think there are maybe a few thousand collections out there that would require years of effort to duplicate, assuming a limited budget is part of the issue. If you are talking about collections that would require years of effort even with an unlimited budget, then maybe a couple hundred.
But again, there are millions of collectors. Most of those collectors do it for fun or profit and who know they are never going to be a named auction. And most of those collectors would rather buy 10 cheap coins than wait 3 months to buy one really good coin.
@Gazes said:
Let me be clear about something since I see a lot of posts that say something like "collect however you want so long as it makes you happy." Of course ! I certainly have never said anything to the contrary. There was an OP about buying at the spread before the price goes up---my comments originated with my thoughts about that collecting strategy. Also be aware that "whatever makes you happy" includes people who enjoy competing on the registry, people who (gasp) want to have the best registry set, collectors who want collections that stand out, collectors who like the challenge of trying to invest in coins, etc. Sometimes it seems like a one way street on here----do whatever makes you happy unless you like expensive coins, you like CAC coins, you want to have a world class collection, etc,.
I think you are right. Everyone says "do what makes you happy" and then they tell people that they shouldn't do what they are doing. A few of the junk coin collectors and the minor variety folks come to mind. They are always being told by a couple board members that their treasures are worth face value.
And I will also agree with you that the discussion about top pop or the one below or "buy the best you can afford" have their place as strategies. I'm just trying to restore a little balance by pointing out that those are also strategies that are either limited in their application (top pop) or have little interest among the general population (best you can afford). Most collectors like to frequently add coins to their collections which limits the application of "best you can afford". Most collectors don't have the pocketbook to buy top pop or even the one below.
What I find amusing is that I have always tried to give my opinion about what I have learned about collecting, what I enjoy, and advice on what I see in the future of collecting. I do not tell people there way of collecting is wrong. On the other hand, I have been told countless times that my way of collecting is wrong. For instance I have had negative comments galore for my support of CAC (to the point where posting about CAC on this forum I consider a waste of time). I never told anyone that they shouldn't buy NON CAC coins but certainly thought my experiences with CAC were worth sharing. I have seen people post about high profile collections jand state that they could care less about an expensive coin bought by a collector. I see a lot of coins on here that I have no interest in and would never think about a post that says "i could care less about your coin." We wonder why many knowledgeable collectors have stopped posting on the forum?
I would like to think that over the years that collectors who read my posts would be better off than if they didn't. At a minimum they may think outside cliches that may work for some people but not others.
I would like to think that over the years that collectors who read my posts would be better off than if they didn't. At a minimum they may think outside cliches that may work for some people but not others.
I enjoy your posts and the ensuing conversation they inevitably trigger- keep’em coming!
Buying the best coin you can afford can end up being an issue if you do this consistently if it significantly limits how many coins you can get. I'm working on a type set now, and would rather buy the best seated quarter I can afford than the best Kennedy half dollar and not be able to allocate the extra money from the half dollar to something else. As for the "notable" collections out there, they almost always have some coins in there that have some not-so-great specimens that end up being sold off at a premium because of "pedigree".
I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
Over the years you have made many posts. I'm unaware of whether you are a dealer or a collector or someone in between. It would seem to me that if you are buying 100 collections per year and 99% of them have no more than $100 of value in them, you are buying them as part of your hobby or are in an area which cannot support a coin dealer specializing in rare coins. Even in elegant neighborhoods there are coin dealers with minimal inventory. Most important, you seem to be enjoying what you are doing.
If you have a reputation of selling expensive, rare coins, collectors with expensive, rare coins would consider the possibility of selling to you. They would not consider selling coins to you that you would not normally carry.
I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
Over the years you have made many posts. I'm unaware of whether you are a dealer or a collector or someone in between. It would seem to me that if you are buying 100 collections per year and 99% of them have no more than $100 of value in them, you are buying them as part of your hobby or are in an area which cannot support a coin dealer specializing in rare coins. Even in elegant neighborhoods there are coin dealers with minimal inventory. Most important, you seem to be enjoying what you are doing.
If you have a reputation of selling expensive, rare coins, collectors with expensive, rare coins would consider the possibility of selling to you. They would not consider selling coins to you that you would not normally carry.
I'm a part-time dealer, full-time college chemistry teacher, and a collector/hoarder by nature. [Anyone want 50,000 wooden nickels?]
The collections I buy usually come through other dealers.
You misunderstand my point, or perhaps I made it inelegantly. It's not that I can't buy $500,000 collections or that they don't exist. The issue is the sheer number of collections that are worth $1000 or less in total.
MOST coin collections STILL (35 years later) contain no slabbed coins at all. This forum gives a somewhat inaccurate view of what the entire coin collecting continuum looks like. You might be surprised how many collectors don't even know what NGC and PCGS are or what they do.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
Over the years you have made many posts. I'm unaware of whether you are a dealer or a collector or someone in between. It would seem to me that if you are buying 100 collections per year and 99% of them have no more than $100 of value in them, you are buying them as part of your hobby or are in an area which cannot support a coin dealer specializing in rare coins. Even in elegant neighborhoods there are coin dealers with minimal inventory. Most important, you seem to be enjoying what you are doing.
If you have a reputation of selling expensive, rare coins, collectors with expensive, rare coins would consider the possibility of selling to you. They would not consider selling coins to you that you would not normally carry.
I'm a part-time dealer, full-time college chemistry teacher, and a collector/hoarder by nature. [Anyone want 50,000 wooden nickels?]
The collections I buy usually come through other dealers.
You misunderstand my point, or perhaps I made it inelegantly. It's not that I can't buy $500,000 collections or that they don't exist. The issue is the sheer number of collections that are worth $1000 or less in total.
MOST coin collections STILL (35 years later) contain no slabbed coins at all. This forum gives a somewhat inaccurate view of what the entire coin collecting continuum looks like. You might be surprised how many collectors don't even know what NGC and PCGS are or what they do.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
Let's assume what you say is accurate. Why would we focus and cater on this forum to a group of collectors who dont even know what PCGS is ? I would say 99% of the members on this forum know about PCGS. The OP had a question about gap coins and buying the best you can afford---why derail it by saying 99% collectors dont have collections over $100? Does every post have to somehow include the majority of collectors you say that dont know about TPG?
Clearly there are different niches within numismatics. There are plenty of collectors on this forum who enjoy discussing expensive coins. I just dont know why whenever there is a discussion about these type of coins, there are few people who seem intent on saying "this doesnt apply to most coin collectors" . So what should we do ---not to discuss it? How about we discuss it knowing that it may not be applicable to some collectors but will be interesting or applicable to others?
I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
Over the years you have made many posts. I'm unaware of whether you are a dealer or a collector or someone in between. It would seem to me that if you are buying 100 collections per year and 99% of them have no more than $100 of value in them, you are buying them as part of your hobby or are in an area which cannot support a coin dealer specializing in rare coins. Even in elegant neighborhoods there are coin dealers with minimal inventory. Most important, you seem to be enjoying what you are doing.
If you have a reputation of selling expensive, rare coins, collectors with expensive, rare coins would consider the possibility of selling to you. They would not consider selling coins to you that you would not normally carry.
I'm a part-time dealer, full-time college chemistry teacher, and a collector/hoarder by nature. [Anyone want 50,000 wooden nickels?]
The collections I buy usually come through other dealers.
You misunderstand my point, or perhaps I made it inelegantly. It's not that I can't buy $500,000 collections or that they don't exist. The issue is the sheer number of collections that are worth $1000 or less in total.
MOST coin collections STILL (35 years later) contain no slabbed coins at all. This forum gives a somewhat inaccurate view of what the entire coin collecting continuum looks like. You might be surprised how many collectors don't even know what NGC and PCGS are or what they do.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
Let's assume what you say is accurate. Why would we focus and cater on this forum to a group of collectors who dont even know what PCGS is ? I would say 99% of the members on this forum know about PCGS. The OP had a question about gap coins and buying the best you can afford---why derail it by saying 99% collectors dont have collections over $100? Does every post have to somehow include the majority of collectors you say that dont know about TPG?
Clearly there are different niches within numismatics. There are plenty of collectors on this forum who enjoy discussing expensive coins. I just dont know why whenever there is a discussion about these type of coins, there are few people who seem intent on saying "this doesnt apply to most coin collectors" . So what should we do ---not to discuss it? How about we discuss it knowing that it may not be applicable to some collectors but will be interesting or applicable to others?
Just curious, how many collections of state quarters do you think are out there? Hell, my Mom who never had any interest in my collecting was building a set of state quarters!
I always buy the spread coin or "best value grade" even if I can afford the better one. I can also "afford" a lot of other nice coins with the remaining $24,500.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree with what you just said.
I'm relatively new to the board so my preconceived idea was this is a board for serious PCGS coin collectors. I've seen some participants who want to learn more about coin collecting. After a while I would think causal collectors would find this board boring and then lose interest and move on to other topics of interest to them.
I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
Over the years you have made many posts. I'm unaware of whether you are a dealer or a collector or someone in between. It would seem to me that if you are buying 100 collections per year and 99% of them have no more than $100 of value in them, you are buying them as part of your hobby or are in an area which cannot support a coin dealer specializing in rare coins. Even in elegant neighborhoods there are coin dealers with minimal inventory. Most important, you seem to be enjoying what you are doing.
If you have a reputation of selling expensive, rare coins, collectors with expensive, rare coins would consider the possibility of selling to you. They would not consider selling coins to you that you would not normally carry.
I'm a part-time dealer, full-time college chemistry teacher, and a collector/hoarder by nature. [Anyone want 50,000 wooden nickels?]
The collections I buy usually come through other dealers.
You misunderstand my point, or perhaps I made it inelegantly. It's not that I can't buy $500,000 collections or that they don't exist. The issue is the sheer number of collections that are worth $1000 or less in total.
MOST coin collections STILL (35 years later) contain no slabbed coins at all. This forum gives a somewhat inaccurate view of what the entire coin collecting continuum looks like. You might be surprised how many collectors don't even know what NGC and PCGS are or what they do.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
Let's assume what you say is accurate. Why would we focus and cater on this forum to a group of collectors who dont even know what PCGS is ? I would say 99% of the members on this forum know about PCGS. The OP had a question about gap coins and buying the best you can afford---why derail it by saying 99% collectors dont have collections over $100? Does every post have to somehow include the majority of collectors you say that dont know about TPG?
Clearly there are different niches within numismatics. There are plenty of collectors on this forum who enjoy discussing expensive coins. I just dont know why whenever there is a discussion about these type of coins, there are few people who seem intent on saying "this doesnt apply to most coin collectors" . So what should we do ---not to discuss it? How about we discuss it knowing that it may not be applicable to some collectors but will be interesting or applicable to others?
I never said you needed to cater to the "bottom 99%". I didn't even say this thread had to be about the bottom 99%. There was talk about buying what makes you happy. I said 99.9% of us will never stand out but we had fun. This really got derailed when you argued with my statistics, as though I was somehow underestimating the number of great collections with my statement.
Maybe we need some math. Let's say there are 100,000 OUTSTANDING COLLECTIONS. If there are 10 million "coin collectors", that is 1%. If there are 100 million coin collectors, as some publications suggest there are within the US alone, then that is 0.1%.
Final conclusions:
Between 99 and 99.9% of all collections are not remarkable at all.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree with what you just said.
I'm relatively new to the board so my preconceived idea was this is a board for serious PCGS coin collectors. I've seen some participants who want to learn more about coin collecting. After a while I would think causal collectors would find this board boring and then lose interest and move on to other topics of interest to them.
I really didn't mean to derail the thread. My original statement was pretty simple: 99.9% of collections are unremarkable but we have fun anyway. I'm sorry that it became a defense of my estimated statistics. It really wasn't my intent.
What is considered a "high end" collection? I love what I've been able to collect over the years, but have less than zero chance at ever competing in most PCGS registry sets.
I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
Over the years you have made many posts. I'm unaware of whether you are a dealer or a collector or someone in between. It would seem to me that if you are buying 100 collections per year and 99% of them have no more than $100 of value in them, you are buying them as part of your hobby or are in an area which cannot support a coin dealer specializing in rare coins. Even in elegant neighborhoods there are coin dealers with minimal inventory. Most important, you seem to be enjoying what you are doing.
If you have a reputation of selling expensive, rare coins, collectors with expensive, rare coins would consider the possibility of selling to you. They would not consider selling coins to you that you would not normally carry.
I'm a part-time dealer, full-time college chemistry teacher, and a collector/hoarder by nature. [Anyone want 50,000 wooden nickels?]
The collections I buy usually come through other dealers.
You misunderstand my point, or perhaps I made it inelegantly. It's not that I can't buy $500,000 collections or that they don't exist. The issue is the sheer number of collections that are worth $1000 or less in total.
MOST coin collections STILL (35 years later) contain no slabbed coins at all. This forum gives a somewhat inaccurate view of what the entire coin collecting continuum looks like. You might be surprised how many collectors don't even know what NGC and PCGS are or what they do.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
Let's assume what you say is accurate. Why would we focus and cater on this forum to a group of collectors who dont even know what PCGS is ? I would say 99% of the members on this forum know about PCGS. The OP had a question about gap coins and buying the best you can afford---why derail it by saying 99% collectors dont have collections over $100? Does every post have to somehow include the majority of collectors you say that dont know about TPG?
Clearly there are different niches within numismatics. There are plenty of collectors on this forum who enjoy discussing expensive coins. I just dont know why whenever there is a discussion about these type of coins, there are few people who seem intent on saying "this doesnt apply to most coin collectors" . So what should we do ---not to discuss it? How about we discuss it knowing that it may not be applicable to some collectors but will be interesting or applicable to others?
I never said you needed to cater to the "bottom 99%". I didn't even say this thread had to be about the bottom 99%. There was talk about buying what makes you happy. I said 99.9% of us will never stand out but we had fun. This really got derailed when you argued with my statistics, as though I was somehow underestimating the number of great collections with my statement.
Maybe we need some math. Let's say there are 100,000 OUTSTANDING COLLECTIONS. If there are 10 million "coin collectors", that is 1%. If there are 100 million coin collectors, as some publications suggest there are within the US alone, then that is 0.1%.
Final conclusions:
Between 99 and 99.9% of all collections are not remarkable at all.
This thread is about high end collections.
I have no problem with either #1 or #2.
Fyi---you use quotes around "bottom 99%". I never used the word "bottom" and wouldn't. It's this type of mischaracterization that really makes me reluctant to post.
I ignore pop reports, because unless you are dealing with the few coins that are genuinely scarce, new coins are made.
I have learned that I get the best value buying a coin which is solid for the grade just below a huge price bump for the next grade up. I have also learned to ignore liner coins. You have to pay a premium for them, and I don't get the upgrades when I try to get them.
The other issue is, as someone else mentioned, is that just because a coin is the next grade up doesn't necessarily mean that it's worth the extra amount asked for it.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@mavs2583 said:
What is considered a "high end" collection? I love what I've been able to collect over the years, but have less than zero chance at ever competing in most PCGS registry sets.
Don't think of it as a competition. It's just a fun way to track your collection. So what, if for example, you are number 100 in a field of 360 participants in the 50 type coin Commemorative set. That's like not running in a marathon because you know you can't win it.
I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
Over the years you have made many posts. I'm unaware of whether you are a dealer or a collector or someone in between. It would seem to me that if you are buying 100 collections per year and 99% of them have no more than $100 of value in them, you are buying them as part of your hobby or are in an area which cannot support a coin dealer specializing in rare coins. Even in elegant neighborhoods there are coin dealers with minimal inventory. Most important, you seem to be enjoying what you are doing.
If you have a reputation of selling expensive, rare coins, collectors with expensive, rare coins would consider the possibility of selling to you. They would not consider selling coins to you that you would not normally carry.
I'm a part-time dealer, full-time college chemistry teacher, and a collector/hoarder by nature. [Anyone want 50,000 wooden nickels?]
The collections I buy usually come through other dealers.
You misunderstand my point, or perhaps I made it inelegantly. It's not that I can't buy $500,000 collections or that they don't exist. The issue is the sheer number of collections that are worth $1000 or less in total.
MOST coin collections STILL (35 years later) contain no slabbed coins at all. This forum gives a somewhat inaccurate view of what the entire coin collecting continuum looks like. You might be surprised how many collectors don't even know what NGC and PCGS are or what they do.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
Let's assume what you say is accurate. Why would we focus and cater on this forum to a group of collectors who dont even know what PCGS is ? I would say 99% of the members on this forum know about PCGS. The OP had a question about gap coins and buying the best you can afford---why derail it by saying 99% collectors dont have collections over $100? Does every post have to somehow include the majority of collectors you say that dont know about TPG?
Clearly there are different niches within numismatics. There are plenty of collectors on this forum who enjoy discussing expensive coins. I just dont know why whenever there is a discussion about these type of coins, there are few people who seem intent on saying "this doesnt apply to most coin collectors" . So what should we do ---not to discuss it? How about we discuss it knowing that it may not be applicable to some collectors but will be interesting or applicable to others?
Just curious, how many collections of state quarters do you think are out there? Hell, my Mom who never had any interest in my collecting was building a set of state quarters!
About 10x as many as there are "bicentennial quarter collections". LOL
I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
Over the years you have made many posts. I'm unaware of whether you are a dealer or a collector or someone in between. It would seem to me that if you are buying 100 collections per year and 99% of them have no more than $100 of value in them, you are buying them as part of your hobby or are in an area which cannot support a coin dealer specializing in rare coins. Even in elegant neighborhoods there are coin dealers with minimal inventory. Most important, you seem to be enjoying what you are doing.
If you have a reputation of selling expensive, rare coins, collectors with expensive, rare coins would consider the possibility of selling to you. They would not consider selling coins to you that you would not normally carry.
I'm a part-time dealer, full-time college chemistry teacher, and a collector/hoarder by nature. [Anyone want 50,000 wooden nickels?]
The collections I buy usually come through other dealers.
You misunderstand my point, or perhaps I made it inelegantly. It's not that I can't buy $500,000 collections or that they don't exist. The issue is the sheer number of collections that are worth $1000 or less in total.
MOST coin collections STILL (35 years later) contain no slabbed coins at all. This forum gives a somewhat inaccurate view of what the entire coin collecting continuum looks like. You might be surprised how many collectors don't even know what NGC and PCGS are or what they do.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
Let's assume what you say is accurate. Why would we focus and cater on this forum to a group of collectors who dont even know what PCGS is ? I would say 99% of the members on this forum know about PCGS. The OP had a question about gap coins and buying the best you can afford---why derail it by saying 99% collectors dont have collections over $100? Does every post have to somehow include the majority of collectors you say that dont know about TPG?
Clearly there are different niches within numismatics. There are plenty of collectors on this forum who enjoy discussing expensive coins. I just dont know why whenever there is a discussion about these type of coins, there are few people who seem intent on saying "this doesnt apply to most coin collectors" . So what should we do ---not to discuss it? How about we discuss it knowing that it may not be applicable to some collectors but will be interesting or applicable to others?
I never said you needed to cater to the "bottom 99%". I didn't even say this thread had to be about the bottom 99%. There was talk about buying what makes you happy. I said 99.9% of us will never stand out but we had fun. This really got derailed when you argued with my statistics, as though I was somehow underestimating the number of great collections with my statement.
Maybe we need some math. Let's say there are 100,000 OUTSTANDING COLLECTIONS. If there are 10 million "coin collectors", that is 1%. If there are 100 million coin collectors, as some publications suggest there are within the US alone, then that is 0.1%.
Final conclusions:
Between 99 and 99.9% of all collections are not remarkable at all.
This thread is about high end collections.
I have no problem with either #1 or #2.
Fyi---you use quotes around "bottom 99%". I never used the word "bottom" and wouldn't. It's this type of mischaracterization that really makes me reluctant to post.
By value, it is the "bottom". It's not meant as a pejorative.
@mavs2583 said:
What is considered a "high end" collection? I love what I've been able to collect over the years, but have less than zero chance at ever competing in most PCGS registry sets.
Don't think of it as a competition. It's just a fun way to track your collection. So what, if for example, you are number 100 in a field of 360 participants in the 50 type coin Commemorative set. That's like not running in a marathon because you know you can't win it.
Believe me, there's no way for most people to consider it a competition when they don't have the means to win lol. It's used more-so as a way of organizing the collection and seeing what there is left to complete in a format that looks better than an Excel spreadsheet. My comment was more intended for the "high end" collection aspect; I'd argue even having a PCGS registry set that is even 1/2 complete would make it high end compared to what many collections seem to consist of like a few wheat pennies and maybe a handful of late 1800s-1900s cull silver, and if they're lucky, a single piece of gold. At this point, the number of ungraded collections with true gems would seem to be miniscule.
Most collectors might think of what I have as in the top 5%, but I am nowhere near to Bass, Pougue, Eliasberg or any other of the big names. Nor could I ever get close them.
My collection has me very happy despite the fact that most it has not been approved by CAC, My British and Roman holdings are no better than somewhat better than average. All of that is okay. What's important is that it has made my time on earth better. You can't really ask for anything better than that.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
Most collectors might think of what I have as in the top 5%, but I am nowhere near to Bass, Pougue, Eliasberg or any other of the big names. Nor could I ever get close them.
My collection has me very happy despite the fact that most it has not been approved by CAC, My British and Roman holdings are no better than somewhat better than average. All of that is okay. What's important is that it has made my time on earth better. You can't really ask for anything better than that.
Amen, brother.
It really depends on what drives you to coins. There is a numismatic/commercial interest. There is also an aesthetic aspect. And there is a historical/ cultural aspect to coins. Different people balance them differently.
For me, the strictly aesthetician is often the most important aspect. In those instances, an XF or AU with "meat" on it can be very satisfying. For ancient Roman and medieval European, there is little point in chasing the MS coins.
Similarly, some of my Asian collection was for cultural interest. There also, a "bargain" circ coin is very satisfying.
I can buy more that way, which makes me happy. I also have less money tied up, which helps me sleep at night.
Most of my collection is raw and circ. There's a gem or two, here or there. But I enjoy it for what it is. I get satisfaction out of finding the bargain more than the top pop.
I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
Over the years you have made many posts. I'm unaware of whether you are a dealer or a collector or someone in between. It would seem to me that if you are buying 100 collections per year and 99% of them have no more than $100 of value in them, you are buying them as part of your hobby or are in an area which cannot support a coin dealer specializing in rare coins. Even in elegant neighborhoods there are coin dealers with minimal inventory. Most important, you seem to be enjoying what you are doing.
If you have a reputation of selling expensive, rare coins, collectors with expensive, rare coins would consider the possibility of selling to you. They would not consider selling coins to you that you would not normally carry.
I'm a part-time dealer, full-time college chemistry teacher, and a collector/hoarder by nature. [Anyone want 50,000 wooden nickels?]
The collections I buy usually come through other dealers.
You misunderstand my point, or perhaps I made it inelegantly. It's not that I can't buy $500,000 collections or that they don't exist. The issue is the sheer number of collections that are worth $1000 or less in total.
MOST coin collections STILL (35 years later) contain no slabbed coins at all. This forum gives a somewhat inaccurate view of what the entire coin collecting continuum looks like. You might be surprised how many collectors don't even know what NGC and PCGS are or what they do.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
Let's assume what you say is accurate. Why would we focus and cater on this forum to a group of collectors who dont even know what PCGS is ? I would say 99% of the members on this forum know about PCGS. The OP had a question about gap coins and buying the best you can afford---why derail it by saying 99% collectors dont have collections over $100? Does every post have to somehow include the majority of collectors you say that dont know about TPG?
Clearly there are different niches within numismatics. There are plenty of collectors on this forum who enjoy discussing expensive coins. I just dont know why whenever there is a discussion about these type of coins, there are few people who seem intent on saying "this doesnt apply to most coin collectors" . So what should we do ---not to discuss it? How about we discuss it knowing that it may not be applicable to some collectors but will be interesting or applicable to others?
Just curious, how many collections of state quarters do you think are out there? Hell, my Mom who never had any interest in my collecting was building a set of state quarters!
About 10x as many as there are "bicentennial quarter collections". LOL
I buy maybe 100 collections per year. 95 of them stand out as garbage. 99% of collections have no coins with more than $100.
Over the years you have made many posts. I'm unaware of whether you are a dealer or a collector or someone in between. It would seem to me that if you are buying 100 collections per year and 99% of them have no more than $100 of value in them, you are buying them as part of your hobby or are in an area which cannot support a coin dealer specializing in rare coins. Even in elegant neighborhoods there are coin dealers with minimal inventory. Most important, you seem to be enjoying what you are doing.
If you have a reputation of selling expensive, rare coins, collectors with expensive, rare coins would consider the possibility of selling to you. They would not consider selling coins to you that you would not normally carry.
I'm a part-time dealer, full-time college chemistry teacher, and a collector/hoarder by nature. [Anyone want 50,000 wooden nickels?]
The collections I buy usually come through other dealers.
You misunderstand my point, or perhaps I made it inelegantly. It's not that I can't buy $500,000 collections or that they don't exist. The issue is the sheer number of collections that are worth $1000 or less in total.
MOST coin collections STILL (35 years later) contain no slabbed coins at all. This forum gives a somewhat inaccurate view of what the entire coin collecting continuum looks like. You might be surprised how many collectors don't even know what NGC and PCGS are or what they do.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
Let's assume what you say is accurate. Why would we focus and cater on this forum to a group of collectors who dont even know what PCGS is ? I would say 99% of the members on this forum know about PCGS. The OP had a question about gap coins and buying the best you can afford---why derail it by saying 99% collectors dont have collections over $100? Does every post have to somehow include the majority of collectors you say that dont know about TPG?
Clearly there are different niches within numismatics. There are plenty of collectors on this forum who enjoy discussing expensive coins. I just dont know why whenever there is a discussion about these type of coins, there are few people who seem intent on saying "this doesnt apply to most coin collectors" . So what should we do ---not to discuss it? How about we discuss it knowing that it may not be applicable to some collectors but will be interesting or applicable to others?
I never said you needed to cater to the "bottom 99%". I didn't even say this thread had to be about the bottom 99%. There was talk about buying what makes you happy. I said 99.9% of us will never stand out but we had fun. This really got derailed when you argued with my statistics, as though I was somehow underestimating the number of great collections with my statement.
Maybe we need some math. Let's say there are 100,000 OUTSTANDING COLLECTIONS. If there are 10 million "coin collectors", that is 1%. If there are 100 million coin collectors, as some publications suggest there are within the US alone, then that is 0.1%.
Final conclusions:
Between 99 and 99.9% of all collections are not remarkable at all.
This thread is about high end collections.
I have no problem with either #1 or #2.
Fyi---you use quotes around "bottom 99%". I never used the word "bottom" and wouldn't. It's this type of mischaracterization that really makes me reluctant to post.
By value, it is the "bottom". It's not meant as a pejorative.
Back to the original question, the "best you can afford" advice may be sound for investors. However, I suspect most of us are not investors, we simply enjoy collecting coins and messing with our collection. For us, we buy the best that we deem prudent. One hopes.
My most prized possession is this Elementary school project from a decade ago where my oldest son (currently in college) made this Michigan state quarter coin model in plaster.
Perhaps I should send it in for grading.
Comments
We have a whole forum of people giving their opinions and I'm the only one required to give me credentials! Lol. I've collected coins at various levels for 30 years. I love coins.
I think he was trying to assess how well you would know the market.
I'm always amazed at how many 5 figure bidders there are.
Yep. Buy the best you can afford.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Back to the OP about "spread coins". This has been a recommendation by many for years. I think it depends on what your goal is and how much money you have allotted to rare coins. If you have the budget to buy expensive coins and want a collection that stands out, I think the spread advice is bad advice. Coins that have a large spread usually are widely collected, have a lot of coins at the 2nd highest grade and then very few at the next level. If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that. In fact, you will be doing whatever everyone else is doing. Further, from an investment standpoint it seems that the one consistent is there is always demand for the top pop coins (I am limiting this statement to popular series in US classic coins).
If on the other hand, you simply collect for yourself and either dont have the budget or the desire to pay the higher prices, then the spread "system" is fine. My main point is whether or not the spread method makes sense depends on what type of collector you are. It could be a great strategy for one collector and bad advice to another.
This advice is not very actionable, IMO. Sure, if an obviously nicer version of the same issue is available for a small premium, it is usually better to pick up the nicer one. Moreover, for most of us with limited budgets, collecting is about compromises. Sometimes you compromise by selecting a less expensive series or less expensive grade within the series. Sometimes you compromise by purchasing fewer coins (spacing out your purchases). Sometimes you compromise by purchasing the lower quality coin because that is all that is likely to be available to you. Nobody sets out to intentionally overpay for a crappy coin (however you would define it).
@Gazes said: If you want a collection that stands out (and I realize that is not for everyone) buying the 2nd level will not accomplish that.
I don’t agree with this, unless you mean stand out in a registry sense. For example, someone with patience and a good eye could put together a set of classic commens that truly stands out, with all coins a grade or two below the technically finest known.
From the get go, the mantra "Buy the coin, not the plastic" had been instilled in me by a few old timers. Probably one of the major reasons I stayed with fillingup Danscos with whatever could be afforded and bargain hunted. May not be the very best, but they are mine at a price that am comfortable ponying up for it.
No regrets because it had been a fun journey and the satisfaction derived upon completion of albums was immense, eye candy that a stack of slabs somehow has never given me so far.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
.
Practice makes perfect? 😉
In general I agree with you that someone could buy the lower grade and if they were very picky and only bought high end coins for the grade, the collector could have a collection that would stand out for lesser money. However, in the most popular series those very high end coins would probably be stickered. The reason is that they would trade for a higher premium with a sticker and dealers are not in the business of leaving money on the table. So let say you collect Peace Dollars at the highest grade before the spread increases. You would still most likely pay some spread to get those higher end coins before the grade jump. For instance, the 1925-s in 64 has auction results around $500. In MS 64 CAC it is around $1000. In mS 65 non cac $15,000 and in MS 65 CAC around 38,000 and up. In other words, you can collect the high end1925-s in PCGS 64 but to get truly high end 64 you may have to pay double the price as an "average" 64. There is no free lunch.
Intuitively this makes a lot of sense but practically speaking I’m not so sure at least for me. I think it’s going to be very difficult for my collection to stand out and it’s not because I don’t have nice coins. I’m not a registry player, very few people know I collect coins, my coins are sitting in a SDB 99% of the time, and I don’t display them. When my coins are sold one day I highly doubt my name will ever be on the label and perspective buyers will most likely be unaware of the source.
I understand what you are saying. I guess it all comes down to what we mean when we say a collection that "stands out." For some it may mean having an auction named after you. Others it may mean a registry set or an article written about your collection. Some dealers will sell a collection under your name with a write up (i.e Doug Winter). It could even mean that no one knows about your collection but the coins are fought for when they are sold because knowledgeable collectors recognized they are PQ examples.
99.9% of collections don't stand out at all. We still have fun.
Who said you dont?
No one. But this idea of building "collections that stand out" does not apply to 99+% of all collectors.
If you like it, buy it.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
I think you underestimate the amount of amazing collections out there. There are many people on this forum who have collections that stand out. Look at the registry and see all the amazing collections out there. I have had some top dealers tell me the majority of their best customers do not post on forums or have registry sets. Seems like every month there are collections that were formed being sold on auction with amazing coins from collectors we previously never heard of. It is hard to say what percentage of collections "stand out" because it is hard to define the collector universe. I don't count the guy who comes up to me in my office and shows me the coins from his dad but then never thinks about coins again. He doesn't read about coins, doesn't search for new coins and basically coins are an afterthought. In my mind he really isn't a coin collector. I have some nice antique furniture from my family but just because I own it does not make me an antique collector. Whatever the percentage, there are alot of collections that stand out. Your comment that "building collections that stand out does not apply to 99+% of all collectors" reminds me of a golfing partner I had. He got some satisfaction by grouping everyone's play together by declaring after every missed shot "we all suck". One time I was playing particularly well and was a couple over par after 15 holes. I finally hit a bad drive and he immediately declared "we all suck." So whatever the percentage there are lots of collectors doing some amazing things and have collections that stand out.
PS---I ended up making par on the hole that began with the bad drive
Of course mine does! To Me!
So how many US collections do you think are out there that "stand out"? There is no dollar threshold but collections that would be difficult to replicate without years of serious effort.
And that is all that matters. If your happy with what you have collected, So be it.
Hoard the keys.
While I agree with you, I think the reason is that most “important” collections end up at auction rather than being bought by dealers. So dealers see more “junk collections.”
I think this is a valid observation. Especially now since it appears auctions have become the place to sell.
This is true. The LESS THAN 1% of collections that are noteworthy end up at auction. That doesn't really change the calculation. 99+% of all collections are not noteworthy in any way. Don't get me wrong, I don't see this as a problem. But I do think that you have to recognize that what motivates that 99+% of all collectors is NOT building a collection of note.
Let me be clear about something since I see a lot of posts that say something like "collect however you want so long as it makes you happy." Of course ! I certainly have never said anything to the contrary. There was an OP about buying at the spread before the price goes up---my comments originated with my thoughts about that collecting strategy. Also be aware that "whatever makes you happy" includes people who enjoy competing on the registry, people who (gasp) want to have the best registry set, collectors who want collections that stand out, collectors who like the challenge of trying to invest in coins, etc. Sometimes it seems like a one way street on here----do whatever makes you happy unless you like expensive coins, you like CAC coins, you want to have a world class collection, etc,.
You keep using percentages---by gross numbers how many collections do you believe exists that "stand out" as we defined above?
Actually, you're the one who is doing the equivalent of declaring "we all suck". When you say that people are trying to build collections of note, you are declaring "we are all great". My point is that "collections of note" ignores the 99% of us that are not doing that and can not do that. I am NOT and have NOT in any way denied the existence of collections of note. There are thousands of collections of note. But there are millions of collectors, 99.9% of whom do not have noteworthy collections at all.
The whole - buy the best you can afford - has been amended on this thread as to whether you should buy the Top Pop coin or the one right beneath it. The best you can afford for most people is the choice between a VF 1922-D cent and an XF 1922-D cent not the choice between an MS66 RED and an MS 65 RB. "Most" people don't even get to decide between an AG 1916-D and a Good 1916-D Mercury dime because they don't ever spend that much money on a single coin.
I don't mean this to be negative. It is just a market reality. And 99% of us are happy with our $10 coins and the dream of some day buying an AG 1916-D Mercury dime or, better yet, finding one in junk silver.
I think there are maybe a few thousand collections out there that would require years of effort to duplicate, assuming a limited budget is part of the issue. If you are talking about collections that would require years of effort even with an unlimited budget, then maybe a couple hundred.
But again, there are millions of collectors. Most of those collectors do it for fun or profit and who know they are never going to be a named auction. And most of those collectors would rather buy 10 cheap coins than wait 3 months to buy one really good coin.
I think you are right. Everyone says "do what makes you happy" and then they tell people that they shouldn't do what they are doing. A few of the junk coin collectors and the minor variety folks come to mind. They are always being told by a couple board members that their treasures are worth face value.
And I will also agree with you that the discussion about top pop or the one below or "buy the best you can afford" have their place as strategies. I'm just trying to restore a little balance by pointing out that those are also strategies that are either limited in their application (top pop) or have little interest among the general population (best you can afford). Most collectors like to frequently add coins to their collections which limits the application of "best you can afford". Most collectors don't have the pocketbook to buy top pop or even the one below.
What I find amusing is that I have always tried to give my opinion about what I have learned about collecting, what I enjoy, and advice on what I see in the future of collecting. I do not tell people there way of collecting is wrong. On the other hand, I have been told countless times that my way of collecting is wrong. For instance I have had negative comments galore for my support of CAC (to the point where posting about CAC on this forum I consider a waste of time). I never told anyone that they shouldn't buy NON CAC coins but certainly thought my experiences with CAC were worth sharing. I have seen people post about high profile collections jand state that they could care less about an expensive coin bought by a collector. I see a lot of coins on here that I have no interest in and would never think about a post that says "i could care less about your coin." We wonder why many knowledgeable collectors have stopped posting on the forum?
I would like to think that over the years that collectors who read my posts would be better off than if they didn't. At a minimum they may think outside cliches that may work for some people but not others.
I enjoy your posts and the ensuing conversation they inevitably trigger- keep’em coming!
Buying the best coin you can afford can end up being an issue if you do this consistently if it significantly limits how many coins you can get. I'm working on a type set now, and would rather buy the best seated quarter I can afford than the best Kennedy half dollar and not be able to allocate the extra money from the half dollar to something else. As for the "notable" collections out there, they almost always have some coins in there that have some not-so-great specimens that end up being sold off at a premium because of "pedigree".
Over the years you have made many posts. I'm unaware of whether you are a dealer or a collector or someone in between. It would seem to me that if you are buying 100 collections per year and 99% of them have no more than $100 of value in them, you are buying them as part of your hobby or are in an area which cannot support a coin dealer specializing in rare coins. Even in elegant neighborhoods there are coin dealers with minimal inventory. Most important, you seem to be enjoying what you are doing.
If you have a reputation of selling expensive, rare coins, collectors with expensive, rare coins would consider the possibility of selling to you. They would not consider selling coins to you that you would not normally carry.
I'm a part-time dealer, full-time college chemistry teacher, and a collector/hoarder by nature. [Anyone want 50,000 wooden nickels?]
The collections I buy usually come through other dealers.
You misunderstand my point, or perhaps I made it inelegantly. It's not that I can't buy $500,000 collections or that they don't exist. The issue is the sheer number of collections that are worth $1000 or less in total.
MOST coin collections STILL (35 years later) contain no slabbed coins at all. This forum gives a somewhat inaccurate view of what the entire coin collecting continuum looks like. You might be surprised how many collectors don't even know what NGC and PCGS are or what they do.
My only real point - which is neither a criticism or a counterargument - is that the VAST majority of coin collections are of minimal worth assembled at minimal cost for the sole purpose of amusing the collector. For those people, buying the gap coins or even "the best you can afford" has no relevance as it doesn't align with their motivations. It's just an observation on the broader market.
Let's assume what you say is accurate. Why would we focus and cater on this forum to a group of collectors who dont even know what PCGS is ? I would say 99% of the members on this forum know about PCGS. The OP had a question about gap coins and buying the best you can afford---why derail it by saying 99% collectors dont have collections over $100? Does every post have to somehow include the majority of collectors you say that dont know about TPG?
Clearly there are different niches within numismatics. There are plenty of collectors on this forum who enjoy discussing expensive coins. I just dont know why whenever there is a discussion about these type of coins, there are few people who seem intent on saying "this doesnt apply to most coin collectors" . So what should we do ---not to discuss it? How about we discuss it knowing that it may not be applicable to some collectors but will be interesting or applicable to others?
Just curious, how many collections of state quarters do you think are out there? Hell, my Mom who never had any interest in my collecting was building a set of state quarters!
I always buy the spread coin or "best value grade" even if I can afford the better one. I can also "afford" a lot of other nice coins with the remaining $24,500.
@jmlanzaf said:
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree with what you just said.
I'm relatively new to the board so my preconceived idea was this is a board for serious PCGS coin collectors. I've seen some participants who want to learn more about coin collecting. After a while I would think causal collectors would find this board boring and then lose interest and move on to other topics of interest to them.
I never said you needed to cater to the "bottom 99%". I didn't even say this thread had to be about the bottom 99%. There was talk about buying what makes you happy. I said 99.9% of us will never stand out but we had fun. This really got derailed when you argued with my statistics, as though I was somehow underestimating the number of great collections with my statement.
Maybe we need some math. Let's say there are 100,000 OUTSTANDING COLLECTIONS. If there are 10 million "coin collectors", that is 1%. If there are 100 million coin collectors, as some publications suggest there are within the US alone, then that is 0.1%.
Final conclusions:
I really didn't mean to derail the thread. My original statement was pretty simple: 99.9% of collections are unremarkable but we have fun anyway. I'm sorry that it became a defense of my estimated statistics. It really wasn't my intent.
What is considered a "high end" collection? I love what I've been able to collect over the years, but have less than zero chance at ever competing in most PCGS registry sets.
Fyi---you use quotes around "bottom 99%". I never used the word "bottom" and wouldn't. It's this type of mischaracterization that really makes me reluctant to post.
I ignore pop reports, because unless you are dealing with the few coins that are genuinely scarce, new coins are made.
I have learned that I get the best value buying a coin which is solid for the grade just below a huge price bump for the next grade up. I have also learned to ignore liner coins. You have to pay a premium for them, and I don't get the upgrades when I try to get them.
The other issue is, as someone else mentioned, is that just because a coin is the next grade up doesn't necessarily mean that it's worth the extra amount asked for it.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Don't think of it as a competition. It's just a fun way to track your collection. So what, if for example, you are number 100 in a field of 360 participants in the 50 type coin Commemorative set. That's like not running in a marathon because you know you can't win it.
About 10x as many as there are "bicentennial quarter collections". LOL
By value, it is the "bottom". It's not meant as a pejorative.
Believe me, there's no way for most people to consider it a competition when they don't have the means to win lol. It's used more-so as a way of organizing the collection and seeing what there is left to complete in a format that looks better than an Excel spreadsheet. My comment was more intended for the "high end" collection aspect; I'd argue even having a PCGS registry set that is even 1/2 complete would make it high end compared to what many collections seem to consist of like a few wheat pennies and maybe a handful of late 1800s-1900s cull silver, and if they're lucky, a single piece of gold. At this point, the number of ungraded collections with true gems would seem to be miniscule.
Most collectors might think of what I have as in the top 5%, but I am nowhere near to Bass, Pougue, Eliasberg or any other of the big names. Nor could I ever get close them.
My collection has me very happy despite the fact that most it has not been approved by CAC, My British and Roman holdings are no better than somewhat better than average. All of that is okay. What's important is that it has made my time on earth better. You can't really ask for anything better than that.
Amen, brother.
It really depends on what drives you to coins. There is a numismatic/commercial interest. There is also an aesthetic aspect. And there is a historical/ cultural aspect to coins. Different people balance them differently.
For me, the strictly aesthetician is often the most important aspect. In those instances, an XF or AU with "meat" on it can be very satisfying. For ancient Roman and medieval European, there is little point in chasing the MS coins.
Similarly, some of my Asian collection was for cultural interest. There also, a "bargain" circ coin is very satisfying.
I can buy more that way, which makes me happy. I also have less money tied up, which helps me sleep at night.
Most of my collection is raw and circ. There's a gem or two, here or there. But I enjoy it for what it is. I get satisfaction out of finding the bargain more than the top pop.
That's not a quotation, they are "scare quotes"
Back to the original question, the "best you can afford" advice may be sound for investors. However, I suspect most of us are not investors, we simply enjoy collecting coins and messing with our collection. For us, we buy the best that we deem prudent. One hopes.
Ok, on with the pas de deux.
LOL.
Reminds me of the old Mastercard ad - There's Some Things Money Can't Buy, For everything else there's Mastercard.
My most prized possession is this Elementary school project from a decade ago where my oldest son (currently in college) made this Michigan state quarter coin model in plaster.
Perhaps I should send it in for grading.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091