Right or wrong?
MorganMan94
Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
It's been awhile since I have posted here but an experience in a local coin shop this weekend has had me debating for the past 24 hours whether I was in the right or the wrong.
I visited a local shop I don't usually frequent (3-4x a year) and found two coins I like, both PL Morgan dollars. I I believe the coins were an 1884 O morgan in MS64PL for $115 and an 1887 MS63PL priced at $145. The prices were printed stickers on the coins. I told the dealer I would buy them and he went to grab his Greysheet, flipped through it for a minute while I looked at other coins and then came back and said one of them was mis-priced and he couldn't honor it. I was shocked and fairly upset but I wasn't confrontational enough to address what happened so I didn't say anything and left.
Is this worthy of a 1 star review?
Comments
I consider that type of behavior inappropriate and wrong, if the dealer places a price on a coin that is on display it should be honored. I would avoid doing business with that dealer.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Right or wrong, the dealer can run his shop any way he pleases. You may choose to do business with him or not.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Send the owner this.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I suspect that is why many dealers do not show prices in displays or at shows.
Don't get me wrong, if an honest employee's mistake with a decimal point had been made reducing the price by $100's of dollars from it's value, there would not have been an issue, but this small amount, especially since both coins have sold prices all over the board for the last 6 months to include several that sold below the amounts of the stickers. This true for the CoinFacts sold prices below and for ebay sold pricing not shown. I feel the dealer should at least apologize and make the sale or I would most assuredly not pass his entrance again.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
People make mistakes. Prices are changing fast right now.
Since he probably paid less than a usual markup he could issue a discount or you could have negotiated a split the difference type of deal. It is probably happening more than usual.
you've been to this shop many times over the years so why lose out on a place you enjoy over (one?) instance, especially since coin shops are dropping like flies. can't imagine how some are making it during these tough times. i won't get into semantics like i'm -prone to do, sometimes just keep it simple is the way to go.
one could argue if someone is willing to lose a loyal customer over such a minor amount, so be it but on the flip side, are you willing to chuck up this place as a loss over it? make no mistake, you both will lose.
you both will lose.
I have to respectfully disagree with you here. Losing a B&M over poor business practices is not a loss, and the idea of empowering bad business practices by excepting them or just "taking it" only encourages more of the same.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
it is ok to disagree. that is my opinion and perspective.
it boils down to this for me; if we blacklist every single person/business in this world along our journey over some minor discrepancy (especially ones we have a positive history with), a narrow life will it turn out to be. it usually takes me several burns before i permanently write someone off. nothing wrong with holding people to account but sometimes things just have to be let go. fwiw ☮️
i'm pretty sure i've been a part of both ends of this type of situation over the years at shows/shops and online. - illud est quod est
IMO, by allowing him to check the Greysheet, you were giving consent to a possible price change. This could have gone in any direction. If you were not willing to take the risk, you should have said you wanted to pay the sticker price immediately. However, a price tag is not an offer. It is considered an "invitation to treat". The shop always had the right to change the price. Just like you have the right to make others aware that this shop is willing to negotiate and prices shown are not firm.
My dealer always honors the price indicated on the coins he has price stickers on. He never hesitates, or has to check other references.
Unless the price sticker was egregiously under priced, I think the dealer should have honored the price he had marked.
"I like these two. What's the best you can do on them"?
Problem solved.
As an owner of a B&M shop I would honor the price on the sticker, congratulate the customer for finding a bargain and then check my other prices 😉.
After all, there was obviously a profit in the original price. Why risk an unhappy customer over a few bucks?
If he was willing to do this I would question his other business practices as well. If going back keep an eye on your back.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
As some said, there is no right or wrong to it. A reasonable expectation might well be that the price is as marked. If I wanted them, I'd have gotten out the $260 cash and said "I'll take these". What would have followed is anybody's guess, but it may well not have changed the outcome. Poor way to do business.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
Not really, the dealer would check the Greysheet in either case to calculate margin.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
If the dealer is going to check the greysheet for each purchase why bother putting a sticker with the price on it. He or she should have honored the sticker price. I would find another dealer to buy from.
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Pete
Just ask ahead of time if the marked prices are the current prices, then you know the situation.
Actually he should have told you the prices were outdated when you started looking, if he was more on the ball.
In the past with declining prices, it was also relevant info.
He made it very impersonal, almost like selling bullion coins...
If I were the seller with my coins out on display, I’d be embarrassed to even view the CDN and I wouldn’t quote a higher price than I’d marked. If, on the other hand, the coin had been obviously mis-priced, I’d apologize for (and explain) my error, then ask the customer whether he wanted to know the correct/intended price.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That works, too.
If his offer is acceptable, you can buy the coins. If not, you can pass.
I'm not seeing a problem here.
I've posted something like this before, but I'll do it again. A lot of people go into dealing coins (or other businesses, for that matter) because they want to do things the way they want without having to answer to corporate or worry about what other people think. You might think they should do things differently, but that's your preference, not the dealer's. You're certainly not obligated to agree with him about how to run a business, but he gets to decide how to run his. The question you need to ask yourself is "Does this guy have coins I want to buy often enough to make dealing with his idiosyncrasies worthwhile?"
Poor way to conduct business. I’d be done with any B&M treating customers like this.
Dave
The original post did not state that the coins were "out on display".
He stated "... found two coins".
Could have been in a box of 2x2s that had been priced a long time ago....
I too went into a coin shop, asked for a couple Peace Dollars and a Morgan. He brought out a box, I looked through, found a couple I wanted (they were priced), he looked at them and said," Oh, just to let you know, these are old prices and they have gone up a bit, I've been meaning to update these tags." He also honored the marked prices, which I thought was more than fair. I know these prices fluctuate all over the place but the way he handled it left his customer feeling "not cheated"and raising a price just before you purchase is an awful experience.
I think it’s OK for sellers to quote more than their marked prices for coins if they let potential buyers know in advance that the prices aren’t necessarily as marked. But it’s still much better to avoid that, when feasible.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Well you almost got away with it, Prices go up and down all the time. If I know the price may be higher just because it’s been on the slab for a bit and if he gives me a price that’s in line I’ll still but it.
Now if he lowered it will we still be having this post?
Hoard the keys.
Someone posted the auction results for the previous 6 months above, I would hardly say I was stealing them from him. They were priced fairly and I liked the coins.
These were in his display case.
I didn’t say you were stealing them, but if the prices change then he can change it as well it’s his coin. Now if you put it aside and paid a down payment on it that is not right. I get how it doesn’t feel right but if I go to a store and something is placed in the wrong area and I go to check out and the price is deferent I’ll just say I’ll pass or ya I still want it. I’m not saying you where trying to do anything wrong. Now if it was that price you where willing to buy it and he looked up the price came down it would be okay or should he keep it that price?
Hoard the keys.
I also see this but but I always ask how much is this. Even though I saw a price that was low just in case.
Come on I will side with my board brothers most of the time but this one not every dealer is going to do it it’s just to hard for them to do it all the time. This is why I get so many cherry picks if they can’t change a tag what makes you think they will look out for a verity or something else.
Hoard the keys.
So you go to the store and pick out a pair of shoes with a price on them, you go to the register and the clerk says sorry those have gone up and will be ten dollars more. Sure the store has a right to charge what they want but I doubt you are going to be a happy customer or give that store glowing reviews.
There are actually laws (at least in some states) that protect the consumer from these types of unfair and frankly unethical selling practices. Most of the time if you as a merchant have an item with a price on it you are obligated to sell at that price if a buyer presents the proper monies.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Items such as shoes, clothing and groceries aren’t the same as coins and other collectibles.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not true. If you are selling it in a store, it's merchandise whether it's a coin or a pair of shoes. If it has a marked price and the seller doesn't honor his marked price, the customer isn't going to be happy and may not come back in the future.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If I like the shoes I’ll buy them or I’ll tell him I’ll pass. Shoes don’t move in price like coins or the ones I buy a roll of Lincoln cents say .50 but we go i a coin shop and ask how much they are because they go up and down in price. With coins I have learned the prices are not in stone till you paid and have it in your hand. I’ve had idiots customer come in and f up a deal for me by saying oh ya they are sell fast on line then the shop owner feels he has a big dollar coin only for him to sell me that coin next week for less.
Hoard the keys.
If I liked them Morgan’s and they looked like I can get a upgrade and they where nice I’d buy them. We don’t even know if he bumped it $10. And the coins are worth $300 we don’t know all this. Maybe he didn’t like the coin as much as he thought or maybe he should go back and say if I buy both can I get a discount that will offset the price increase.
Hoard the keys.
It's quite likely the owner of such a store would consider this a feature, not a bug.
Sure, the customer’s not going to be happy in either case, but that doesn’t mean collectibles are treated the same as the other type of items I mentioned. My guess is that whatever laws have been enacted to protect consumers from the types of selling practices @coinbuf is thinking of, wouldn’t typically apply to coins in a box or a case with prices marked on them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If you liked the coin that much to come on here and post a thread about it maybe you should’ve just went ahead and paid the extra $15 for crying out loud.
It all approaches bait and switch. Its not but feels that way.
As for price differences. Ok , in Walmart or something with high volume prices get jumbled. That would have to be a mighty high volume b&m shop to recreate the conditions necessary for prices to get mixed up do to volume of customers. I think that if it’s on display with a price they should be aware of it.
What about eBay, number of times stuff sells for what could have been a better price but doesn’t. The coins involved and the price, it’s on the shop owner to do the right thing, otherwise don’t be surprised if customers feel the “bait and switch “.
Just my 2- percent 😉
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
It is all just merchandise Mark, think back to when department stores carried coins, if they have a coin in a case marked $1 are they not obligated to sell it for $1. Just because a coin store is a small business does not exempt it from the same laws.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
So- I guess this is just too hard to do, then?
We will have to agree to disagree that the coins in this scenario would be subject to the same laws as items in a department or grocery store. Even If professionally graded and the same grade, coins aren't identical or fixed in price like items such as shoes and groceries.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If it isn't fixed in price then don't put a sticker with a fixed price on it.
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This!
Smitten with DBLCs.
Your off the subject Mark we are not discussing a situation where there are two different prices for two separate but similar items. An item was for sale at a set price when the customer attempted to buy that single item the price was changed from the posted price. As another member said this is no different than a bait and switch and exactly why consumer protection laws were created.
I'm no lawyer but I'm very certain that the laws do not allow that type of selling activity for one set of goods and not for another. While its unlikely that any coin store has been prosecuted for this I'd guess that has more to do with proving what happened in a court room, and the expenses to do so, he said he said situation.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Bait and switch is when I get you in a store on a item and sell you another item at a higher price not the same item at a higher price. Car dealers do it all the time you call and ask they say ya I have it you go in and all of a sudden it sold just before you got here. Then you walk out or you buy a different one is what they want you to do. Now that is bait and switch. They baited you in and switch you in to a different item.
Hoard the keys.