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A 1938 Jefferson "is it a proof" thread/question

JeffersonFrogJeffersonFrog Posts: 869 ✭✭✭✭✭

I feel like I should be able to tell, but I remain unsure. I've looked at CoinFacts, previous threads and eBay; and am leaning towards the coin being a proof that stopped being treated as such some time ago. It was purchased as part of a 1938 - P, D, S business strike set. It has that proof haze in the fields, the fields are very clean, and the strike/rims seem consistent with a proof, but it does have some contact marks/nicks. Your thoughts are most appreciated.

If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.

Tommy

Comments

  • MarkKelleyMarkKelley Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The edge should be mirrored on a proof.

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MarkKelley said:
    The edge should be mirrored on a proof.

    good point. the third side of a coin is usually a good place to check for a variety of reasons, especially proofs.

    ive never heard/seen any type of reason why the edges don't seem to hold fingerprints or corrosion as much if at all.

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  • CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 8,639 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2022 11:33AM

    Wouldn't the steps be better defined on a proof? Maybe its a Proof Like business strike.

    Edit: After looking at Coin Facts I see steps are not more defined.

  • fiftysevenerfiftysevener Posts: 907 ✭✭✭✭

    Reverse of '38 has wavy steps. Rims look like proof coin.

  • MJDMJD Posts: 87 ✭✭✭

    It’s hard to judge a proof without seeing it in person, but I’m inclined to say it’s a business strike based on the rims. Here’s a picture of my 1938 proof for comparison.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,931 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree that it has a proof look to it. If you had posted this as "GTG of this business strike" you'd be getting numbers worth more than a proof.

  • JeffersonFrogJeffersonFrog Posts: 869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I should have thought to look at the edge. It looks to me to be a business strike. Many thanks.

    If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.

    Tommy

  • fiftysevenerfiftysevener Posts: 907 ✭✭✭✭

    Mine has a cameo look but not quite enough to get the designation

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on the rims...particularly the reverse, I would say it is a business strike.... A very nice one, but business strike nonetheless. Cheers, RickO

  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice Jefferson.



    Hoard the keys.
  • CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 8,639 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @leothelyon Nice looking Jeffs!
    What is EDS?
    Exceptional die strike?

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Brand new YN here. I have been collecting the 1936-42 proofs for about 3 years now, and the obverse rims do make it look like a proof, and I do see a bit of a wire rim on the right obverse rim. However, the reverse does not have those same rims and has some rather thick lettering for a proof, which I have never seen on a Jefferson proof from this era, so I think it's a rather high grade business strike. 1938 is also the year for really wide obverse rims, and the die pairs that would have stuck this coin seem to have made coins with those wide rims. Any other die pairs generally have re-engraving which would allow us to match it to a proof definitively. Either way, a beautiful coin.

    Coin Photographer.

  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 7,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinscratch said:
    @leothelyon Nice looking Jeffs!
    What is EDS?
    Exceptional die strike?

    Early Die State.

    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 8,639 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @relicsncoins said:

    @Coinscratch said:
    @leothelyon Nice looking Jeffs!
    What is EDS?
    Exceptional die strike?

    Early Die State.

    Thanks :) yea it dawned on me as I was just logging in - EDS is good 😊

  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 7,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinscratch said:

    @relicsncoins said:

    @Coinscratch said:
    @leothelyon Nice looking Jeffs!
    What is EDS?
    Exceptional die strike?

    Early Die State.

    Thanks :) yea it dawned on me as I was just logging in - EDS is good 😊

    Yes, it's the ED you have to watch out for.

    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 8,639 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:
    Brand new YN here. I have been collecting the 1936-42 proofs for about 3 years now, and the obverse rims do make it look like a proof, and I do see a bit of a wire rim on the right obverse rim. However, the reverse does not have those same rims and has some rather thick lettering for a proof, which I have never seen on a Jefferson proof from this era, so I think it's a rather high grade business strike. 1938 is also the year for really wide obverse rims, and the die pairs that would have stuck this coin seem to have made coins with those wide rims. Any other die pairs generally have re-engraving which would allow us to match it to a proof definitively. Either way, a beautiful coin.

    Welcome and strong first post! The PL mirrors either have haze or the haze makes them look like mirrors, not sure but I always like that look on Lincoln’s too.

  • MartinMartin Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It has that hazy look of a proof of the era but the strike seems to soft. I don’t think it’s a proof. I also wouldn’t bet on it

    Martin

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Certainly has a proofy look to it

    Collector, occasional seller

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Doesn’t have squared rims.

    thefinn
  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great nickel! I bet that haze might come off with some careful conservation. If you have MS70 or acetone, Id give that one a try! I think it will look even better!

  • OldEastsideOldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:
    Upon first glance, I'd venture to state it is a proof.

    I agree, and I collect theses early Jeff Proofs

    Steve

    Promote the Hobby
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,944 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's a 1938 Proof nickel I purchased at the recent FUN show.


    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,457 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The hazy look reminds me of a 1958 6 step coin I thought was a BS. Took the coin with me to a huge coin show in Chicago to have ANACS look at it. I about fell out of my chair when Michael F. said PF58. Over 25 years ago, I was younger then and learning. Sorry, don't have a pic of it......heck, I don't even know if I still have it.

    Leo> @erwindoc said:

    Great nickel! I bet that haze might come off with some careful conservation. If you have MS70 or acetone, Id give that one a try! I think it will look even better!

    The delicate, extremely fine striations that were produced/formed during the polishing of the coin blank and possibly the dies will be ruined/destroyed by any cleaning chemical. The crystalization/crust/corrosion that grew/formed on the coin due to improper storage will remain on the coin no matter what chemical or method you use to remove it. Cleaning chemicals remove only the colors from the corrosion. It does not restore the coin to its original surfaces. The surfaces will look etched after a cleaning. Short of returning the coin to the coin press, there is nothing out there to restore deep proof fields on a coin after corrosion has formed. A quick weak solution dip can remove oil and dirt but not corrosion.
    Search out businesses/websites that specialize selling proof coins. There, you will be able to see which coins have been cleaned by the haze seen on the coins in the photos.

    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2022 3:10AM

    @leothelyon Nice nickels. Your first 41 P proof like picture is actually a 41 S

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's gotta have sharp inner and outer edges too..............

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,457 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    @leothelyon Nice nickels. Your first 41 P proof like picture is actually a 41 S

    Fixed it, thanks! Good eye! ;)

    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • JeffersonFrogJeffersonFrog Posts: 869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The rims are not shiny, but they are square/sharp. I don't own any old Jeff proofs, so I don't know if the edges are expected to be shiny like the modern proofs. I'm still thinking BS. By the way, many thanks for the input.

    If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.

    Tommy

  • CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 8,639 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, there is but one way to solve the mystery and either way it comes back it will be worth more than the grading fees even if 66.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For your comparison, here is the edge of a 1941 Proof that I have handy.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The edge of the 1938 proof I have on my desk are firstly reflective and match the reflectivity of the mirrors on the obverse and reverse. They are not going to be as reflective as the rims of a modern proof, but show some pretty clear reflectivity. The edge should generally be thicker than a normal business strike, so if you have a Jeff from around the late 30s to mid 40s handy that is clearly a business strike, a comparison of the thickness of the edge should help.

    Coin Photographer.

  • CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 8,639 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:
    The edge of the 1938 proof I have on my desk are firstly reflective and match the reflectivity of the mirrors on the obverse and reverse. They are not going to be as reflective as the rims of a modern proof, but show some pretty clear reflectivity. The edge should generally be thicker than a normal business strike, so if you have a Jeff from around the late 30s to mid 40s handy that is clearly a business strike, a comparison of the thickness of the edge should help.

    Yeah I’m not sure you can judge a book by the cover here unless there are no other options, edges can be sharp or not, reflective or not and still you cannot definitively say one way or the other.
    Example, I’m a brand new YN but I’ve been collecting old Jeffersons for three years. Who is to say if your edges are sharp or not :) I still say send it in, it wouldn’t be the first time they’ve made a mistake…or not.
    Regardless, once the verdict is in well, there you go.

  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,457 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe comparing the OP's coin to the PL 1938-P I posted might help?

    Leo lol

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @leothelyon said:
    Maybe comparing the OP's coin to the PL 1938-P I posted might help?

    Leo lol

    (open in new tab)

    Collector, occasional seller

  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:
    Brand new YN here. I have been collecting the 1936-42 proofs for about 3 years now, and the obverse rims do make it look like a proof, and I do see a bit of a wire rim on the right obverse rim. However, the reverse does not have those same rims and has some rather thick lettering for a proof, which I have never seen on a Jefferson proof from this era, so I think it's a rather high grade business strike. 1938 is also the year for really wide obverse rims, and the die pairs that would have stuck this coin seem to have made coins with those wide rims. Any other die pairs generally have re-engraving which would allow us to match it to a proof definitively. Either way, a beautiful coin.

    Nicely done.👍🏼 Way better then I would of said. Well it was better then I said. Good job you put it all together nicely.



    Hoard the keys.

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