@Steven59 said:
Seems just like yesterday - Oh wait, it was...........
mr1874 said:
"I'm outta here for good after I am allowed by our host here to post last images of the date and mintmark of my penny in the Lucky Penny thread, the coin that you and others, after YOU BEGGING ME for images of, have certified by committee as counterfeit. All the last picture show is for is to possibly get a more definitive thing established, with Mr. Newman's expert assistance, that to OUR satisfaction, indeed, my coin's obverse matches exactly with die #6, a die previously unknown to have been used for 1909-S VDB.
V.D.B. analysis of my coin is not going to happen here even if I am BEGGED TO STAY after managing to get decent images of the V.D.B. Your cookie cutter analysis paralysis method of authentication by commitee for a coin like mine is not for me."
Changed my mind about leaving. I found that I enjoy imaging coins with my new equipment. Hope that's okay with the committee.Don't anyone lose any sleep over my decision to stay, okay?
btw, I met your demands for the V.D.B. image so maybe some recognition of me doing that is in order?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
tx for the images. i'm confident if you had your scope to begin with, we would live in an entirely different universe than we do now. (thanks to the person whom suggested/linked the one they bought, for a good price too no less)
(not an endo-scope, ouch)
I kinda see what you mean after looking up the common def of "endoscope" on the internet. But in my defense, that's what the Jiusion digital microscope is advertised as on Amazon...an endoscope...will wonders never cease? Here is the link to the...
endoscope I bought after asking Picker where he bought his endoscope er I mean "digital microscope." Happily, the nifty stand that I got with my Elikliv microscope works fine with my Jiusion microscope, allowing overhead or "straight on" shots.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
"Jiusion portable magnification is a useful and funny microscope for students, engineers, inventors, and others who need to magnify and explore the micro things."
The micro things can be kind of funny it seems.
2/11/22 UPDATE: Anyone who might own a 1909-S V.D.B. in a TPG holder that looks like mine please PM me. It would need to look my piece in all respects exactly to be of interest to US. My piece established as "counterfeit" here in this thread but it cannot be officially deemed a "counterfeit" until the coin is subjected to thorough examination by PCGS, which would require removal of the coin from it's holder. Method of manufacture of the "V.D.B." has not been determined by anyone, expert or otherwise, at this writing. I said it before, I'll say it again. New obverse, new reverse, why not new "V.D.B."? PCGS has a code they can put on the label for a genuine coin they might holder, 86-Authenticity unverifiable. Far as I'm concerned, unless method of manufacture can be established definitively, the coin is really a code 86, authenticity unverifiable and should be holdered as such.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
>
Well, since this thread is off the rails anyhow...
While we're waiting for a deicated thread (which may never come)...
Die struck 1796 counterfeit cent struck over 1848 cent?
Done when? And why?
And as you said, undertype is not centered, so how does that work??
🤔
Can't wait to learn more!!
>
Well, since this thread is off the rails anyhow...
While we're waiting for a deicated thread (which may never come)...
Die struck 1796 counterfeit cent struck over 1848 cent?
Done when? And why?
And as you said, undertype is not centered, so how does that work??
🤔
Can't wait to learn more!!
ok. i managed to see something i think i missed previously. he did say he will start a new thread. not sure i would have saw it again? if you hadn't made your post, so thanks! @burfle23
This 1806 draped bust large cent with slight environmental damage was the oldest in my Dansco 7070 till an 1801 replaced it.
The year is visible and the coin looks great in hand, just that my archive picture does not really do it proper justice
@mr1874 said:
I can email to you the V.D.B. images I get with my endoscope. Let me know by PM where to send.
you are welcome to email them to this thread.
why not post them? there must be 1000+ years of numismatic experience on these boards. pcgs consults with at least a few members and i'm sure a few have been graders. you giving us half this puzzle almost makes it seem as though you are trying to stir things up. you got your wonderful scope you were wise enough to purchase. show us what ya got!
effective members post images, at least consider what is being shared with them and let the chips fall where they may.
i will not address this coin further w/o rev image(s), especially close-ups of the vdb.
thanks
Here's a better image of the V.D.B. The third dot is there but does not really show up under high magnification. Also, the point of the 'V' dips a little lower than the image below indicates that it does.
I get one sa remark in this thread about trolling this forum by presenting this V.D.B. to the best of my ability and I will delete this post too.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
@Jzyskowski1 said:
As advertised and in hand 😉
A D.Carr/ Grove Mint beauty!
Well, that's a nice I take it token.
But I couldn't put that in my Lincoln collection.
So, I ended up having to settle for this one.
It also filled the order for a childhood bucket list coin.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Wow that’s a nice coin. I’m on a budget that let’s me buy something I could never afford or a combination of several coins takes priority.
Dan Carr worked with Grove Mint to produce those. They were produced on high quality, genuine, 55 donor coins . I have quite a good time searching for quality reproductions of some favorites. I love some of Dan’s fantasy work.
Congratulations again that’s wonderful to add such a nice coin.
( shhhhh, it’s ok, I don’t think he was insulting us by calling it a “I take it token “ ) dang my associate is insulted 😂. It’s ok, he’ll calm down once he remembers we collect what we like and you collect what you like and that’s one of the things that makes our hobby great 😉
@Jzyskowski1 said:
Wow that’s a nice coin. I’m on a budget that let’s me buy something I could never afford or a combination of several coins takes priority.
Dan Carr worked with Grove Mint to produce those. They were produced on high quality, genuine, 55 donor coins . I have quite a good time searching for quality reproductions of some favorites. I love some of Dan’s fantasy work.
Congratulations again that’s wonderful to add such a nice coin.
Well, you can see by the image where I bought it, that was the image they had in there listing while it was for sale.
I know about about budgets and spending money on coins I see LOTS of threads on this forum with coins in the $10,000 range I can do it, not possible!
The 55DDO was a HUGE stretch for me.
I think what helps me is I can narrow down my selections because I'm just looking for Lincoln's.
I just got these two yesterday.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
>
Well, since this thread is off the rails anyhow...
While we're waiting for a deicated thread (which may never come)...
Die struck 1796 counterfeit cent struck over 1848 cent?
Done when? And why?
And as you said, undertype is not centered, so how does that work??
🤔
Can't wait to learn more!!
Created approx 2013 by master counterfeiters using genuine and often repaired source coins to create the false dies. This one is apparently struck over an (1843) petite head large cent, probably in a lot of culls. Just theorizing, but the smaller diameter of the 1843 relative to 1796 die could allow for a slight off-center look...
@coinsarefun said:
I have a few.
I wish I kept the first one. I’ve been looking for a replacement and still no luck.
.
.
THE GOD OF THINGS AS THEY OUGHT TO BE
BILLIKEN
COPYRIGHT 1908
You have a nice collection of lucky pieces. Thank you for presenting some of them here.
The Billiken is especially interesting to me. Are these subject to modern day copying? If so, how does one know if one is looking at an offered Billiken that it is original and not a copy?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
>
Well, since this thread is off the rails anyhow...
While we're waiting for a deicated thread (which may never come)...
Die struck 1796 counterfeit cent struck over 1848 cent?
Done when? And why?
And as you said, undertype is not centered, so how does that work??
🤔
Can't wait to learn more!!
Created approx 2013 by master counterfeiters using genuine and often repaired source coins to create the false dies. This one is apparently struck over an (1843) petite head large cent, probably in a lot of culls. Just theorizing, but the smaller diameter of the 1843 relative to 1796 die could allow for a slight off-center look...
Thanks @burfle23 !
If you ever feel like it, a thread on this coin would be fascinating 👍
Another lucky penny to share here. This one from Golden State Mint is from my grandson's collection. He didn't want to give it up but I showed him enough green to make it my own. The buffalo nickel (for size comparison) is one of his. It has no date so I told him I would use some date restorer on it and he would get it back with a date on it.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said:
Another lucky penny to share here. This one from Golden State Mint is from my grandson's collection. He didn't want to give it up but I showed him enough green to make it my own. The buffalo nickel (for size comparison) is one of his. It has no date so I told him I would use some date restorer on it and he would get it back with a date on it.
>
.
.
. "He didn't want to give it up"
So rather than nurture your grandson's interest in coin collecting and letting him keep something he likes you had to have it.
Rather than acid date a nickel for him why don't you buy him one with a date for 75 cents or less?
I really like the message on coinsarefun's 1908 BILLIKEN:
GOOD LUCK
I AM THE GOD OF LUCKINESS
SO ALWAYS KEEP ME NIGH
MISFORTUNES FROWN WILL DISAPPEAR
AT ONE FLASH FROM THE EYE
BE SURE THAT I AM ON THE SPOT
WHEN PROJECTS YOU BEGIN
I AM THE GOD OF LUCKINESS
MY NAME IS BILLIKEN
POCKET PIECE
Will be seeking one original Billiken for myself and one for my grandson. Billiken kind of looks like Buddha. Buddha was not a god. However, he did say some things worthy of contemplation. Here's one of my favorites:
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
The 2009 Lincoln "log cabin" cent is my "lucky penny" because it represents the first design change to the coin in 50 years. This particular specimen was compliments of the artist who designed the reverse.
@FreeThinker said:
The 2009 Lincoln "log cabin" cent is my "lucky penny" because it represents the first design change to the coin in 50 years. This particular specimen was compliments of the artist who designed the reverse.
feel free and your convenience, to flat those staples out!
So rather than nurture your grandson's interest in coin collecting and letting him keep something he likes you had to have it.
Rather than acid date a nickel for him why don't you buy him one with a date for 75 cents or less?
Grandson's real interest is currency. Bigger numbers is better for him in his pursuit of examples of US currency for his collection. I pay handsomely for coins/tokens I like. Grandson got a fiver from me for his 1/2 oz. pure copper Golden State Mint piece. He's happy, I'm happy so really not much more to say about the deal we made.
I'm giving serious consideration to acid etching a big "7" below the Indian on my Golden State Mint piece. C.P. nitric acid is used for best results but it is expensive. Material (something similar to asphalt paint) that the nitric, used full strength, will not eat into is needed to make the "7." The "7" will be in the style seen on the piece in the OP. Nitric is applied to the entire piece to get an even etch. Piece can be copper flash plated to cover any surface roughness seen after the etch is completed.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
>
Well, since this thread is off the rails anyhow...
While we're waiting for a deicated thread (which may never come)...
Die struck 1796 counterfeit cent struck over 1848 cent?
Done when? And why?
And as you said, undertype is not centered, so how does that work??
🤔
Can't wait to learn more!!
Created approx 2013 by master counterfeiters using genuine and often repaired source coins to create the false dies. This one is apparently struck over an (1843) petite head large cent, probably in a lot of culls. Just theorizing, but the smaller diameter of the 1843 relative to 1796 die could allow for a slight off-center look...
Thanks @burfle23 !
If you ever feel like it, a thread on this coin would be fascinating 👍
>
Well, since this thread is off the rails anyhow...
While we're waiting for a deicated thread (which may never come)...
Die struck 1796 counterfeit cent struck over 1848 cent?
Done when? And why?
And as you said, undertype is not centered, so how does that work??
🤔
Can't wait to learn more!!
Created approx 2013 by master counterfeiters using genuine and often repaired source coins to create the false dies. This one is apparently struck over an (1843) petite head large cent, probably in a lot of culls. Just theorizing, but the smaller diameter of the 1843 relative to 1796 die could allow for a slight off-center look...
Thanks @burfle23 !
If you ever feel like it, a thread on this coin would be fascinating 👍
Just posted it as another thread.
.
tyvm for the heads-up. i was shutting things down, getting ready for sleep, a couple hours later than i should, as usual as of late and you drop the bomb on me/us!
Acid etch experiment in the interest of LEARNING more about how coin such as mine's V.D.B. might have been manufactured is not going to happen. Experiment is cost prohibitive. The acid needed is not just expensive, it is super expensive. And the shipping cost is very high as well.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
So,your post put this thread back on the rails again. I see. I learn something new every day. Happy to see that your post meets with committee approval.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said:
Acid etch experiment in the interest of LEARNING more about how coin such as mine's V.D.B. might have been manufactured is not going to happen. Experiment is cost prohibitive. The acid needed is not just expensive, it is super expensive. And the shipping cost is very high as well.
People say this ruins a coin, but if say a Buffalo Nickel has NO trace of a date then its ruined anyway. Using a protect like doesn't un-ruin it either. Its cheap, and if the owner of the dateless (worthless) Nickel gets a peek at a trace of the date may have some satisfaction, nothing LOST!
But its cost isn't going to break the bank.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
@mr1874 said:
Acid etch experiment in the interest of LEARNING more about how coin such as mine's V.D.B. might have been manufactured is not going to happen. Experiment is cost prohibitive. The acid needed is not just expensive, it is super expensive. And the shipping cost is very high as well.
People say this ruins a coin, but if say a Buffalo Nickel has NO trace of a date then its ruined anyway. Using a protect like doesn't un-ruin it either. Its cheap, and if the owner of the dateless (worthless) Nickel gets a peek at a trace of the date may have some satisfaction, nothing LOST!
But its cost isn't going to break the bank.
I know all about Nic-A-Date. Really a good product. I enjoy processing dateless Buffalo Nickels with Nic-A-Date. In fact, I have an album for the once dateless Buffalo nickels to reside in after I restore the date. I have learned how to use Nic-A-Date so that one can barely tell that the date was restored using Nic-A-Date. I once got $10 on ebay auction for a restored from dateless '15-S.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said:
The information on how C.P. nitric acid is used to add features on copper-based coins such as Buffalo Nickels (75% Cu) and small cents (95% Cu) comes from the 1973 publication "Detecting Altered Coins" 5th edition by Bert Harsche. Mr. Harsche was a pioneer in detecting counterfeit and altered coins. None of us should be too surprised to learn that much of what we now know about the various die varieties of 1909-S cents most likely comes from Mr. Harsche's work.
My experiment to attempt to make a crisp, well-defined "7" on my .999 Cu Golden State Mint piece should tell me a lot about how my "V.D.B." piece might have been manufactured by a counterfeiter. So, I'll buy the expensive acid along with some acid resistant paint and see what I get. Acid resistant gloves and googles are also needed.
DISCLAIMER: Don't anyone with no experience handling concentrated acids try conducting the acid etch experiment I am about to do. Fuming nitric acid is an extremely hazardous substance.
Thank goodness you were able to stumble on to the fact that chemical companies won't just put HNO3 in a FedEx box and drop it off on your doorstep. This stuff is dangerous, not something for amateurs to play with, especially if they are getting their chemistry info from an obscure, half century old pamphlet on counterfeits.
Consider yourself lucky you didn't hurt yourself, damage your pipes and counters, and/or cause an environmental emergency. There is a reason why chemists work with this stuff under specially designed fume hoods, with OSHA approved PPE.
BTW, if you understand how acids react with surfaces of metals you'll understand why you won't get a sharp edge on your copper piece. But I guess that wasn't covered in in your reference pamphlet.
@mr1874 said:
Acid etch experiment in the interest of LEARNING more about how coin such as mine's V.D.B. might have been manufactured is not going to happen. Experiment is cost prohibitive. The acid needed is not just expensive, it is super expensive. And the shipping cost is very high as well.
People say this ruins a coin, but if say a Buffalo Nickel has NO trace of a date then its ruined anyway. Using a protect like doesn't un-ruin it either. Its cheap, and if the owner of the dateless (worthless) Nickel gets a peek at a trace of the date may have some satisfaction, nothing LOST!
But its cost isn't going to break the bank.
I know all about Nic-A-Date. Really a good product. I enjoy processing dateless Buffalo Nickels with Nic-A-Date. In fact, I have an album for the once dateless Buffalo nickels to reside in after I restore the date. I have learned how to use Nic-A-Date so that one can barely tell that the date was restored using Nic-A-Date. I once got $10 on ebay auction for a restored from dateless '15-S.
Nic-a-date ruins coins. Yes I can see very clearly a buffalo nickel that has been destroyed by this crap. It’s now garbage in my eyes and many, many others.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
@MsMorrisine said:
Even dateless buffs sell for a premium
I wouldn’t say they are worth only a nickel
When my favorite shop has them, I pay them $.07 for each one out of the herd that I pick for treatment Looking for the 1916 DDO and also 1918/17-D. I have found a few key dates, '13-D, '14-D, '15-S.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said:
The information on how C.P. nitric acid is used to add features on copper-based coins such as Buffalo Nickels (75% Cu) and small cents (95% Cu) comes from the 1973 publication "Detecting Altered Coins" 5th edition by Bert Harsche. Mr. Harsche was a pioneer in detecting counterfeit and altered coins. None of us should be too surprised to learn that much of what we now know about the various die varieties of 1909-S cents most likely comes from Mr. Harsche's work.
My experiment to attempt to make a crisp, well-defined "7" on my .999 Cu Golden State Mint piece should tell me a lot about how my "V.D.B." piece might have been manufactured by a counterfeiter. So, I'll buy the expensive acid along with some acid resistant paint and see what I get. Acid resistant gloves and googles are also needed.
DISCLAIMER: Don't anyone with no experience handling concentrated acids try conducting the acid etch experiment I am about to do. Fuming nitric acid is an extremely hazardous substance.
Thank goodness you were able to stumble on to the fact that chemical companies won't just put HNO3 in a FedEx box and drop it off on your doorstep. This stuff is dangerous, not something for amateurs to play with, especially if they are getting their chemistry info from an obscure, half century old pamphlet on counterfeits.
Consider yourself lucky you didn't hurt yourself, damage your pipes and counters, and/or cause an environmental emergency. There is a reason why chemists work with this stuff under specially designed fume hoods, with OSHA approved PPE.
BTW, if you understand how acids react with surfaces of metals you'll understand why you won't get a sharp edge on your copper piece. But I guess that wasn't covered in in your reference pamphlet.
I know how to handle nitric acid and am well aware how dangerous the concentrated (70% or more) is. I put the disclaimer in to warn the junior chemists among us about it. Question: Why does my V.D.B. have such crisp and well-defined edges if V.D.B. added by acid etch? Only thing I can think of is the etch on my piece was done rapidly using highly concentrated nitric acid. 90% is available but you don't even want to know how much it costs these days.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said:
I know how to handle nitric acid and am well aware how dangerous the concentrated (70% or more) is. I put the disclaimer in to warn the junior chemists among us about it. Question: Why does my V.D.B. have such crisp and well-defined edges if V.D.B. added by acid etch? Only thing I can think of is the etch on my piece was done rapidly using highly concentrated nitric acid. 90% is available but you don't even want to know how much it costs these days.
.
this coin has been beaten to death and beyond BUT i am a fan of the learning/education process. since i don't recall actually saying it, so i'll say it now. just because the obv matches up some diagnostics, including the S and chip and position of the #6 09-s mm position and that it is in a pcgs holder doesn't make it authentic with an added vdb. occam is most likely correct here.
one effective way to take this to the next level is to d/l many MAX images of 09-s and 09-s vdb images to look over the obv for matching polishing marks/die scratches etc which probably won't be there OR go to some of the lincoln cent sites and there are several at least and are pretty much all next-level with their research to look for other pups to comp on yours.
by doing this, you can help to relieve the need/desire to figure out how vdb was added as there is a 99% chance it has been there since the day of its' striking. i'll leave 1% out there since i don't have it in hand, nor do i want to.
@mr1874 said:
Acid etch experiment in the interest of LEARNING more about how coin such as mine's V.D.B. might have been manufactured is not going to happen. Experiment is cost prohibitive. The acid needed is not just expensive, it is super expensive. And the shipping cost is very high as well.
People say this ruins a coin, but if say a Buffalo Nickel has NO trace of a date then its ruined anyway. Using a protect like doesn't un-ruin it either. Its cheap, and if the owner of the dateless (worthless) Nickel gets a peek at a trace of the date may have some satisfaction, nothing LOST!
But its cost isn't going to break the bank.
I know all about Nic-A-Date. Really a good product. I enjoy processing dateless Buffalo Nickels with Nic-A-Date. In fact, I have an album for the once dateless Buffalo nickels to reside in after I restore the date. I have learned how to use Nic-A-Date so that one can barely tell that the date was restored using Nic-A-Date. I once got $10 on ebay auction for a restored from dateless '15-S.
Nic-a-date ruins coins. Yes I can see very clearly a buffalo nickel that has been destroyed by this crap. It’s now garbage in my eyes and many, many others.
Destroyed because you can see the date after a successful Nic-A-Date restore? I mean, the nickel after being Nic-A-Dated is still worth at least a nickel, no?
this coin (1909-S V.D.B.) has been beaten to death and beyond BUT i am a fan of the learning/education process. since i don't recall actually saying it, so i'll say it now. just because the obv matches up some diagnostics, including the S and chip and position of the #6 09-s mm position and that it is in a pcgs holder doesn't make it authentic with an added vdb. occam is most likely correct here.
Occam's Razor. I'm familiar with it. What I seek is the answer to HOW was the V.D.B. added if that's what happened. I think the answer might be that the V.D.B. was added by the counterfeiter doing a rapid acid etch of the V.D.B. that was painstakingly constructed using acid-resistant paint on a genuine 1909-S cent from obverse die #6 and reverse with deep valley 'N' in UNITED. The entire piece was immersed in concentrated nitric acid (90% or greater strength) for just a very short time, just long enough to accomplish the etch, an etch that is marked by crisp, well-defined letters and dots. Simulated die strike accomplished by using a chemical, in other words. That's the simplest explanation I can think of.
one effective way to take this to the next level is to d/l many MAX images of 09-s and 09-s vdb images to look over the obv for matching polishing marks/die scratches etc which probably won't be there OR go to some of the lincoln cent sites and there are several at least and are pretty much all next-level with their research to look for other pups to comp on yours.
Doing what you are suggesting brother and I do is in the works but I still want to do the acid etch experiment on my .9999 Cu Golden State Mint piece by making a "7" on it using C.P. (Harsche's term) nitric acid to see what I get.
by doing this, you can help to relieve the need/desire to figure out how vdb was added as there is a 99% chance it has been there since the day of its' striking. i'll leave 1% out there since i don't have it in hand, nor do i want to.
Fair enough. Thank you, Mr. Newman, for your attention in this matter of helping to solve the mystery of the whispering SVDB.
Congratulations you just turned a nickel that was worth .50-$1. And made it only worth a nickel. Not so bad when you look at it that way but what if everyone decided to do it? Just like the idiots that artificial tone coins. All destroyed.
You not keeping up with the market. When were dateless Buffalo nickels worth $.50-$1? I suggest you throw away your price guide if it says dateless Buffalo nickels are worth $.50-$1. I pay $.07 each for dateless Buffalo nickels. SEVEN CENTS.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Sorry, just saw this today. As far as I know there are no copies or kopycat’s. Give them time they will.
But there are so many different Billiken items out there not just relegated to tokens.
In my opinion the red one graded MS65RB I believe. And never saw one that nice. There are a ton out there
there has to be a few. Just hard to find.
THE GOD OF THINGS AS THEY OUGHT TO BE
BILLIKEN
COPYRIGHT 1908
You have a nice collection of lucky pieces. Thank you for presenting some of them here.
The Billiken is especially interesting to me. Are these subject to modern day copying? If so, how does one know if one is looking at an offered Billiken that it is original and not a copy?
Comments
Thank you; always try to add!
I will start a new thread in this forum...
Changed my mind about leaving. I found that I enjoy imaging coins with my new equipment. Hope that's okay with the committee.Don't anyone lose any sleep over my decision to stay, okay?
btw, I met your demands for the V.D.B. image so maybe some recognition of me doing that is in order?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
True. But everyone should have a lucky penny to have and to hold. Got a lucky penny, you're never broke.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
tx for the images. i'm confident if you had your scope to begin with, we would live in an entirely different universe than we do now. (thanks to the person whom suggested/linked the one they bought, for a good price too no less)
(not an endo-scope, ouch)
I kinda see what you mean after looking up the common def of "endoscope" on the internet. But in my defense, that's what the Jiusion digital microscope is advertised as on Amazon...an endoscope...will wonders never cease? Here is the link to the...
endoscope I bought after asking Picker where he bought his endoscope er I mean "digital microscope." Happily, the nifty stand that I got with my Elikliv microscope works fine with my Jiusion microscope, allowing overhead or "straight on" shots.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
This selling point found in the description:
"Jiusion portable magnification is a useful and funny microscope for students, engineers, inventors, and others who need to magnify and explore the micro things."
The micro things can be kind of funny it seems.
2/11/22 UPDATE: Anyone who might own a 1909-S V.D.B. in a TPG holder that looks like mine please PM me. It would need to look my piece in all respects exactly to be of interest to US. My piece established as "counterfeit" here in this thread but it cannot be officially deemed a "counterfeit" until the coin is subjected to thorough examination by PCGS, which would require removal of the coin from it's holder. Method of manufacture of the "V.D.B." has not been determined by anyone, expert or otherwise, at this writing. I said it before, I'll say it again. New obverse, new reverse, why not new "V.D.B."? PCGS has a code they can put on the label for a genuine coin they might holder, 86-Authenticity unverifiable. Far as I'm concerned, unless method of manufacture can be established definitively, the coin is really a code 86, authenticity unverifiable and should be holdered as such.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
These are my "signature" lucky pennies . . . .
Just my "two cents" worth . . .
Z
.
.
Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
.
you intimated my thought precisely!
this is NOT getting enough billing.
i've been guilty of this many times over the years; putting very-thread-worthy topics in the midst of random or even chaotic.
>
Well, since this thread is off the rails anyhow...
While we're waiting for a deicated thread (which may never come)...
Die struck 1796 counterfeit cent struck over 1848 cent?
Done when? And why?
And as you said, undertype is not centered, so how does that work??
🤔
Can't wait to learn more!!
ok. i managed to see something i think i missed previously. he did say he will start a new thread. not sure i would have saw it again? if you hadn't made your post, so thanks! @burfle23
This 1806 draped bust large cent with slight environmental damage was the oldest in my Dansco 7070 till an 1801 replaced it.
The year is visible and the coin looks great in hand, just that my archive picture does not really do it proper justice
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
ouch
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
"IN GD WE TRUST" 1941
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Well, that's a nice I take it token.
But I couldn't put that in my Lincoln collection.
So, I ended up having to settle for this one.
It also filled the order for a childhood bucket list coin.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Wow that’s a nice coin. I’m on a budget that let’s me buy something I could never afford or a combination of several coins takes priority.
Dan Carr worked with Grove Mint to produce those. They were produced on high quality, genuine, 55 donor coins . I have quite a good time searching for quality reproductions of some favorites. I love some of Dan’s fantasy work.
Congratulations again that’s wonderful to add such a nice coin.
( shhhhh, it’s ok, I don’t think he was insulting us by calling it a “I take it token “ ) dang my associate is insulted 😂. It’s ok, he’ll calm down once he remembers we collect what we like and you collect what you like and that’s one of the things that makes our hobby great 😉
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Well, you can see by the image where I bought it, that was the image they had in there listing while it was for sale.
I see LOTS of threads on this forum with coins in the $10,000 range I can do it, not possible!
I know about about budgets and spending money on coins
The 55DDO was a HUGE stretch for me.
I think what helps me is I can narrow down my selections because I'm just looking for Lincoln's.
I just got these two yesterday.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Those are nice examples. Hard to find clean examples because of the zinc combination. I’ve got some that were unslabbed and they blistered.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I have a few.
I wish I kept the first one. I’ve been looking for a replacement and still no luck.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Created approx 2013 by master counterfeiters using genuine and often repaired source coins to create the false dies. This one is apparently struck over an (1843) petite head large cent, probably in a lot of culls. Just theorizing, but the smaller diameter of the 1843 relative to 1796 die could allow for a slight off-center look...
THE GOD OF THINGS AS THEY OUGHT TO BE
BILLIKEN
COPYRIGHT 1908
You have a nice collection of lucky pieces. Thank you for presenting some of them here.
The Billiken is especially interesting to me. Are these subject to modern day copying? If so, how does one know if one is looking at an offered Billiken that it is original and not a copy?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Thanks @burfle23 !
If you ever feel like it, a thread on this coin would be fascinating 👍
Another lucky penny to share here. This one from Golden State Mint is from my grandson's collection. He didn't want to give it up but I showed him enough green to make it my own. The buffalo nickel (for size comparison) is one of his. It has no date so I told him I would use some date restorer on it and he would get it back with a date on it.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Found Coin Roll Hunting This Year.
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"He didn't want to give it up"
So rather than nurture your grandson's interest in coin collecting and letting him keep something he likes you had to have it.
Rather than acid date a nickel for him why don't you buy him one with a date for 75 cents or less?
Why didn't you just buy one for yourself?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294202286513
No grandpa of the year award for you!
I really like the message on coinsarefun's 1908 BILLIKEN:
GOOD LUCK
I AM THE GOD OF LUCKINESS
SO ALWAYS KEEP ME NIGH
MISFORTUNES FROWN WILL DISAPPEAR
AT ONE FLASH FROM THE EYE
BE SURE THAT I AM ON THE SPOT
WHEN PROJECTS YOU BEGIN
I AM THE GOD OF LUCKINESS
MY NAME IS BILLIKEN
POCKET PIECE
Will be seeking one original Billiken for myself and one for my grandson. Billiken kind of looks like Buddha. Buddha was not a god. However, he did say some things worthy of contemplation. Here's one of my favorites:
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
The 2009 Lincoln "log cabin" cent is my "lucky penny" because it represents the first design change to the coin in 50 years. This particular specimen was compliments of the artist who designed the reverse.
feel free and your convenience, to flat those staples out!
nice piece bwt!!
So rather than nurture your grandson's interest in coin collecting and letting him keep something he likes you had to have it.
Rather than acid date a nickel for him why don't you buy him one with a date for 75 cents or less?
Grandson's real interest is currency. Bigger numbers is better for him in his pursuit of examples of US currency for his collection. I pay handsomely for coins/tokens I like. Grandson got a fiver from me for his 1/2 oz. pure copper Golden State Mint piece. He's happy, I'm happy so really not much more to say about the deal we made.
I'm giving serious consideration to acid etching a big "7" below the Indian on my Golden State Mint piece. C.P. nitric acid is used for best results but it is expensive. Material (something similar to asphalt paint) that the nitric, used full strength, will not eat into is needed to make the "7." The "7" will be in the style seen on the piece in the OP. Nitric is applied to the entire piece to get an even etch. Piece can be copper flash plated to cover any surface roughness seen after the etch is completed.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Just posted it as another thread.
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tyvm for the heads-up. i was shutting things down, getting ready for sleep, a couple hours later than i should, as usual as of late and you drop the bomb on me/us!
Acid etch experiment in the interest of LEARNING more about how coin such as mine's V.D.B. might have been manufactured is not going to happen. Experiment is cost prohibitive. The acid needed is not just expensive, it is super expensive. And the shipping cost is very high as well.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Just no way to make this stop; I actually thought this a valid post and made a contribution. And then it goes off the rails AGAIN by the OP.
I found my copy of "Harshe" in the fiction section
...
So,your post put this thread back on the rails again. I see. I learn something new every day. Happy to see that your post meets with committee approval.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
It's Lincoln's Birthday today! Some more lucky Lincoln pennies welcome to be posted here. Let's see 'em if you got 'em.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Sorry, don't have a Lincoln handy at the moment. How about a Queen Elizabeth!
“Folks are usually about as happy as they make their minds up to be.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
People say this ruins a coin, but if say a Buffalo Nickel has NO trace of a date then its ruined anyway. Using a protect like doesn't un-ruin it either. Its cheap, and if the owner of the dateless (worthless) Nickel gets a peek at a trace of the date may have some satisfaction, nothing LOST!
But its cost isn't going to break the bank.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I know all about Nic-A-Date. Really a good product. I enjoy processing dateless Buffalo Nickels with Nic-A-Date. In fact, I have an album for the once dateless Buffalo nickels to reside in after I restore the date. I have learned how to use Nic-A-Date so that one can barely tell that the date was restored using Nic-A-Date. I once got $10 on ebay auction for a restored from dateless '15-S.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Thank goodness you were able to stumble on to the fact that chemical companies won't just put HNO3 in a FedEx box and drop it off on your doorstep. This stuff is dangerous, not something for amateurs to play with, especially if they are getting their chemistry info from an obscure, half century old pamphlet on counterfeits.
Consider yourself lucky you didn't hurt yourself, damage your pipes and counters, and/or cause an environmental emergency. There is a reason why chemists work with this stuff under specially designed fume hoods, with OSHA approved PPE.
BTW, if you understand how acids react with surfaces of metals you'll understand why you won't get a sharp edge on your copper piece. But I guess that wasn't covered in in your reference pamphlet.
The Queen is most certainly welcome here.
Windsor Canadian I don't know about. I was a Wild Turkey guy back in the day.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Even dateless buffs sell for a premium
I wouldn’t say they are worth only a nickel
Nic-a-date ruins coins. Yes I can see very clearly a buffalo nickel that has been destroyed by this crap. It’s now garbage in my eyes and many, many others.
When my favorite shop has them, I pay them $.07 for each one out of the herd that I pick for treatment Looking for the 1916 DDO and also 1918/17-D. I have found a few key dates, '13-D, '14-D, '15-S.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I know how to handle nitric acid and am well aware how dangerous the concentrated (70% or more) is. I put the disclaimer in to warn the junior chemists among us about it. Question: Why does my V.D.B. have such crisp and well-defined edges if V.D.B. added by acid etch? Only thing I can think of is the etch on my piece was done rapidly using highly concentrated nitric acid. 90% is available but you don't even want to know how much it costs these days.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Because it isn't etched.
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this coin has been beaten to death and beyond BUT i am a fan of the learning/education process. since i don't recall actually saying it, so i'll say it now. just because the obv matches up some diagnostics, including the S and chip and position of the #6 09-s mm position and that it is in a pcgs holder doesn't make it authentic with an added vdb. occam is most likely correct here.
one effective way to take this to the next level is to d/l many MAX images of 09-s and 09-s vdb images to look over the obv for matching polishing marks/die scratches etc which probably won't be there OR go to some of the lincoln cent sites and there are several at least and are pretty much all next-level with their research to look for other pups to comp on yours.
by doing this, you can help to relieve the need/desire to figure out how vdb was added as there is a 99% chance it has been there since the day of its' striking. i'll leave 1% out there since i don't have it in hand, nor do i want to.
no attitude, sarcasm, picking etc. just facts.
Destroyed because you can see the date after a successful Nic-A-Date restore? I mean, the nickel after being Nic-A-Dated is still worth at least a nickel, no?
this coin (1909-S V.D.B.) has been beaten to death and beyond BUT i am a fan of the learning/education process. since i don't recall actually saying it, so i'll say it now. just because the obv matches up some diagnostics, including the S and chip and position of the #6 09-s mm position and that it is in a pcgs holder doesn't make it authentic with an added vdb. occam is most likely correct here.
Occam's Razor. I'm familiar with it. What I seek is the answer to HOW was the V.D.B. added if that's what happened. I think the answer might be that the V.D.B. was added by the counterfeiter doing a rapid acid etch of the V.D.B. that was painstakingly constructed using acid-resistant paint on a genuine 1909-S cent from obverse die #6 and reverse with deep valley 'N' in UNITED. The entire piece was immersed in concentrated nitric acid (90% or greater strength) for just a very short time, just long enough to accomplish the etch, an etch that is marked by crisp, well-defined letters and dots. Simulated die strike accomplished by using a chemical, in other words. That's the simplest explanation I can think of.
one effective way to take this to the next level is to d/l many MAX images of 09-s and 09-s vdb images to look over the obv for matching polishing marks/die scratches etc which probably won't be there OR go to some of the lincoln cent sites and there are several at least and are pretty much all next-level with their research to look for other pups to comp on yours.
Doing what you are suggesting brother and I do is in the works but I still want to do the acid etch experiment on my .9999 Cu Golden State Mint piece by making a "7" on it using C.P. (Harsche's term) nitric acid to see what I get.
by doing this, you can help to relieve the need/desire to figure out how vdb was added as there is a 99% chance it has been there since the day of its' striking. i'll leave 1% out there since i don't have it in hand, nor do i want to.
Fair enough. Thank you, Mr. Newman, for your attention in this matter of helping to solve the mystery of the whispering SVDB.
Congratulations you just turned a nickel that was worth .50-$1. And made it only worth a nickel. Not so bad when you look at it that way but what if everyone decided to do it? Just like the idiots that artificial tone coins. All destroyed.
You not keeping up with the market. When were dateless Buffalo nickels worth $.50-$1? I suggest you throw away your price guide if it says dateless Buffalo nickels are worth $.50-$1. I pay $.07 each for dateless Buffalo nickels. SEVEN CENTS.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Sorry, just saw this today. As far as I know there are no copies or kopycat’s. Give them time they will.
But there are so many different Billiken items out there not just relegated to tokens.
In my opinion the red one graded MS65RB I believe. And never saw one that nice. There are a ton out there
there has to be a few. Just hard to find.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC