Help grading this 1909 vdb Lincoln head penny
BUFFNIXX
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Take a stab at grading this 1909 vdb lincoln scent.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
0
Comments
100% business strike. Possibly lightly cleaned/retoned.
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Looks like AU58 to me. I think the color looks off too.
I agree with the AU58 grade.... looks as if it may have been in an album for quite a while... difference in color between obverse and reverse. Cheers, RickO
AU58 but dipped and retoned.
I could see it as a 62. The luster (esp obverse) looks too flat to go any higher. I agree with others who said that the color looks off.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I'd say at lest AU
Also to note!
Its a nice example of what could be termed Type 1 reverse. I just recently went on a search for one of these to add next to the (what could be termed) type 2 reverse I already had.
It has a nice detailed strike for the designers initials too, that's always a plus!
On the color,
Let me ask you this, how close to color is the images vs in your hand?
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
polished mpl and retoned?
the metal edges around ONE CENT are very indicative of polishing but i would have expected to see more of that around other devices.
the rims are VERY deep. even some of the MPL on CF don't appear that sharp and deep surprisingly.
I can see why you're saying that but the rim thins out a little between 4-7:00. It also doesn't have the marker next to UNUM and the beard detail is weak. Other than that, I'm in the AU58+ crowd if the color is NT.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
UNC details net AU50 cleaned
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I’m going to say PR-64 looks like a deep dish pizza. Lol
Hoard the keys.
Definitely not a proof, AU58 and possibly messed with.
WS
Inside rims are sharp. The outside edge needs to be checked. It must also have a wire edge, instead of the usual chamferred (rounded) edge on circulated coins.
Pete
OK, since Brian Wagner no longer lurks here let's throw out a Trueview for comparison. (BTW - I see none of there three required Die Markers on your cent) Plus look at the overall width of the rims.Yours have at least two areas where they are rounded.
I’m guessing that the coin’s look is deceiving, but going by the images provided, I’d guess AU detail, questionable color (or cleaned).
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@WaterSport
(BTW - I see none of there three required Die Markers on your cent)
Okay, you have my attention!
What are the three Die Markers required on a 1909P-VDB Lincoln cent?
Of, course when you mention "Die Markers" my thoughts go to a Genuine Coin, vs Counterfeit or Altered coin.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
BS
Cleaned
AU details
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
for an MPL
Yes this coin is deceiving. It does not look like a proof but it does not look like a business strike either.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
It certainly looks like a business strike to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Cleaned, AU details.
We are talking Matte Proof Lincolns here, Not a Business strike or run of the mill uncirculated cent. Since only 420 were made the same obverse die was used to make all 420 Matte Proofs with the VDB and the same Obverse die was used for the the 2500+ Non VDB Matte proofs. And those die markers are:
Die Scratch from back towards letter R in Liberty.
Several down slope die scratches just off the Nose.
Crescent shape die Gouge to the right of M in Unum.
WS
So was it graded? If so what is it?
Hoard the keys.
The coin has the dot centered between the D and the B just like the 1909-S V.D.B. Cents do.
Pete
Yep!
Also, look at the "N" in UNITED?
Same as a Genuine 09SVDB!
This is why I stated it could be (should be) referred to as Type 1
I recently added this one to my Type 2 in my collection
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I think you got a point there, Mark.
Pete
It is not "graded".
(p.s. it is not my coin.)
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
'ONE CENT' appears to have the metal pileup around the edges of the letters that indicate the coin has been whizzed.
AU details, whizzed.
I will say the rims are better/thicker than your average business strike.
Here is the one I bought as a type 1 to add to my collection. I had a little trouble finding one that had a good detail strike for the designer's initials.
There is several things on the reverse of these that mirror's a genuine SVDB!
The period following the "V" is higher off the rim,
The period following the "D" is more centered,
The cross bar in the "B" has a more correct slant,
And then there is that shallow valley "N" in UNITED.
Its very clear that there is at lest TWO different verities of reverse 09P-VDB's.
I thought all along that there was a Philly style VDB and a San Francisco style, guess what? that wasn't true.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
have you found these pups to be progressive or did the dies come into service with them right out of the gate and get weaker as the run progresses? also, if there is a progression, even if minor, do you find you can identify which were struck first, having the consistently stronger pups with no degradation?
answer as much or little as you like, i'm curious but not committed.
Lance - The reference books are all consistent with these die markers. In fact if you think about it, with only 420 minted, there should not be much die deterioration to show partial or missing markers. With that said, when you look at the Trueviews of the 1909 VDB MPL, regardless of lighting, color, and metal mixture - the three markers are very clear. But once you look at the OBV dies for the 1909 Plain MPL. you can see the lines getting weaker.
WS
More MPL diagnostic pics to go along with Bob’s.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I am enjoying the autopsy. Interesting observations. Peace Roy
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I think some type of AU details. The TPGs really don’t like to call these proof unless the diagnostics match.
Coin Photographer.