So I started this thread January 29, 2022, it is now coming up on 6 months, once left fallow, then re-activated, I guess we need some CAC in our lives eh? After hearing the discussion, my take on it is that yes CAC is a market maker in their limited niche. Alot of good CAC topics are now being discussed. Carry on.
Keep in mind that all CAC coins are not equal and not all of them should have a premium - in my experience after several hundred submissions, they like coins that did not have human intervention (i.e. original) and these can have negative eye appeal in some cases. I bought into the idea that CAC means good for any coin, but learned that these negative eye appeal coins with their originality play to a certain type of collection, and prefer them not to be in mine. But hey, eye appeal is in the eye of the beholder. So which would you choose below?
This one is a 'leetle' too much 'original' for me - could be considered negative eye appeal because it is pretty dark. CAC loves these if no sign of being messed with. My images put this coin it is best light - but it is a rare die marriage. Should it have a premium? Probably not.
Here are 2 from a year later, common die marriages, big difference is these has some nice colors in the toning - to me it is nice eye appeal yet have a largely un-messed with look. Positive eye appeal and carry strong premiums as they just don't come like this in the bust quarter series every day.
So i prefer the look of the last 2 coins when choosing CAC coins, and I steer away from examples like the first one now even when beaned.
@rec78 said:
I have hundreds of slabs in my bank safe-deposit box and none of them are CAC stickered because I bought all of them before CAC existed.
That's probably better than having hundreds of raw coins because you bought them before PCGS existed. It's not really an argument against having coins slabbed, though.
I do have hundreds of raw coins in my safe-deposit box also, and you are right I did get most of them before PCGS existed-most of them in albums. A lot of them will be slabbed by PCGS eventually and I am not arguing against slabbing. I don't know where you got that idea. I am not against CAC sticker either.
@rec78 said:
I don't know if I trust a CAC sticker. Can they be easily faked or moved from one slab to another? Are there price guides for coins with CAC stickers? Either way, the person who started the CAC company is making a lot of money by doing very little with a stock of stickers. All he does is look at coins and decide if they are worthy of a sticker. I have hundreds of slabs in my bank safe-deposit box and none of them are CAC stickered because I bought all of them before CAC existed.
This is so steeped in ignorance and misinformation, it's not worth trying to correct it all.
I have no idea what you are talking about. All I am saying is that whoever started the CAC sticker is a brilliant person and a great entrepreneur. Comment meant to praise- not vilify. Truely, a lot of thinking and work went into it. I wish I would have thought of it. Think about it. He can run his company from anywhere just by moving his stickers and his computer. Easy to run company. People send you slabs you sticker (or not sticker) them and send them back.
You are reading something into this that I did not mean or say.
Personally, I really don't care if a slab has a CAC sticker or not. Is it worthwhile to purchase a really nice slabbed coin without a CAC sticker to send to CAC to resell after it gets the sticker? Does a CAC sticker add that much value to a coin to make it worthwhile? Should I have my coins CAC'ed after slabbing them?
Is it worthwhile to purchase a really nice slabbed coin without a CAC sticker to send to CAC to resell after it gets the sticker? Does a CAC sticker add that much value to a coin to make it worthwhile? Should I have my coins CAC'ed after slabbing them?
Yes, if you can find a really nice slabbed coin without a CAC sticker.
I wish CAC shared which cert #'s were rejected. That way we wouldn't have to waste our time sending in coins that were already sent in and didn't make the cut.
@rec78 said:
I don't know if I trust a CAC sticker. Can they be easily faked or moved from one slab to another? Are there price guides for coins with CAC stickers? Either way, the person who started the CAC company is making a lot of money by doing very little with a stock of stickers. All he does is look at coins and decide if they are worthy of a sticker. I have hundreds of slabs in my bank safe-deposit box and none of them are CAC stickered because I bought all of them before CAC existed.
This is so steeped in ignorance and misinformation, it's not worth trying to correct it all.
I have no idea what you are talking about. All I am saying is that whoever started the CAC sticker is a brilliant person and a great entrepreneur. Comment meant to praise- not vilify. Truely, a lot of thinking and work went into it. I wish I would have thought of it. Think about it. He can run his company from anywhere just by moving his stickers and his computer. Easy to run company. People send you slabs you sticker (or not sticker) them and send them back.
You are reading something into this that I did not mean or say.
Personally, I really don't care if a slab has a CAC sticker or not. Is it worthwhile to purchase a really nice slabbed coin without a CAC sticker to send to CAC to resell after it gets the sticker? Does a CAC sticker add that much value to a coin to make it worthwhile? Should I have my coins CAC'ed after slabbing them?
Other than the brilliance of JA, every other assertion/implicstion of yours was either wrong or sell understood.
You can't fake the sticker any more easily than you can fake a slab. There's a certification look up.
It's not one person looking at the coins, it's a grading team and finalizer.
They don't make money on the stickers, they make money on buying and selling the coins. They don't even charge collectors for the coins that don't sticker. You get a free opinion from a team of 4 experts.
Yes, there are CAC price guides. In fact, the common industry guides include values for CAC and non'CAC.
Coin Facts and Coin Prices (NN) don’t do CAC values. I don’t think Bluebook does either. Not recommending they do. CPG (based on CDN) of course does which is a another source for me plus linked w CAC (if I understand their relationship correctly). Fits in w my like to c it all on one page. Then I bookmark certain issues of interest track how they doing.
I found the comment Richard G (NN) said about CAC values in this months Coin Market (Coin Prices), (NN) very interesting. Take a look at it. It has to do with the importance of eye appeal. I like his columns on the market a lot, their bullion US Coins price guide on one page, and consider him an expert well informed unbiased source on the coin market and other issues.
I then did my monthly analysis of CAC on eBay. Came up w 4pct for CAC Pcgs and 2pct CAC NGC. Then did a filter for cac by bin / lowest price first see if anything (deal) just had to have. Nada. Many priced 2-3x CP convinced me need look no further.
@rec78 said:
I don't know if I trust a CAC sticker. Can they be easily faked or moved from one slab to another? Are there price guides for coins with CAC stickers? Either way, the person who started the CAC company is making a lot of money by doing very little with a stock of stickers. All he does is look at coins and decide if they are worthy of a sticker. I have hundreds of slabs in my bank safe-deposit box and none of them are CAC stickered because I bought all of them before CAC existed.
This is so steeped in ignorance and misinformation, it's not worth trying to correct it all.
I have no idea what you are talking about. All I am saying is that whoever started the CAC sticker is a brilliant person and a great entrepreneur. Comment meant to praise- not vilify. Truely, a lot of thinking and work went into it. I wish I would have thought of it. Think about it. He can run his company from anywhere just by moving his stickers and his computer. Easy to run company. People send you slabs you sticker (or not sticker) them and send them back.
You are reading something into this that I did not mean or say.
Personally, I really don't care if a slab has a CAC sticker or not. Is it worthwhile to purchase a really nice slabbed coin without a CAC sticker to send to CAC to resell after it gets the sticker? Does a CAC sticker add that much value to a coin to make it worthwhile? Should I have my coins CAC'ed after slabbing them?
Other than the brilliance of JA, every other assertion/implicstion of yours was either wrong or sell understood.
You can't fake the sticker any more easily than you can fake a slab. There's a certification look up.
It's not one person looking at the coins, it's a grading team and finalizer.
They don't make money on the stickers, they make money on buying and selling the coins. They don't even charge collectors for the coins that don't sticker. You get a free opinion from a team of 4 experts.
Yes, there are CAC price guides. In fact, the common industry guides include values for CAC and non'CAC.
I was asking a question, not making an assumption.
My mistake.
I thought that they sold a service. I did not know that they bought the coins, then stickered them to resell them. Can I send in coins to be stickered or rejected and returned to me? I really don't know how this works. Hey, I am an old guy, getting older any day. I am sorry if I affended anyone with this posting.
@rec78 - The demand for CAC service is extremely high. There are two ways to submit. The first is to become a collector member. This is the best way because CAC doesn’t charge collectors if they reject the coins. You only pay the fee if your coin is accepted and earns the sticker. In order to become a collector member you need to call them and get put on the waiting list. I know in the past they were helping LSCC members get in. The collector membership is free. The other method is to find a dealer who has a dealer membership and have him submit for you. This will cost money and will also mean you have to pay for coins if they sticker or not. Because dealers have to pay regardless of if the coins pass or fail.
@rec78 said:
I don't know if I trust a CAC sticker. Can they be easily faked or moved from one slab to another? Are there price guides for coins with CAC stickers? Either way, the person who started the CAC company is making a lot of money by doing very little with a stock of stickers. All he does is look at coins and decide if they are worthy of a sticker. I have hundreds of slabs in my bank safe-deposit box and none of them are CAC stickered because I bought all of them before CAC existed.
This is so steeped in ignorance and misinformation, it's not worth trying to correct it all.
I have no idea what you are talking about. All I am saying is that whoever started the CAC sticker is a brilliant person and a great entrepreneur. Comment meant to praise- not vilify. Truely, a lot of thinking and work went into it. I wish I would have thought of it. Think about it. He can run his company from anywhere just by moving his stickers and his computer. Easy to run company. People send you slabs you sticker (or not sticker) them and send them back.
You are reading something into this that I did not mean or say.
Personally, I really don't care if a slab has a CAC sticker or not. Is it worthwhile to purchase a really nice slabbed coin without a CAC sticker to send to CAC to resell after it gets the sticker? Does a CAC sticker add that much value to a coin to make it worthwhile? Should I have my coins CAC'ed after slabbing them?
Other than the brilliance of JA, every other assertion/implicstion of yours was either wrong or sell understood.
You can't fake the sticker any more easily than you can fake a slab. There's a certification look up.
It's not one person looking at the coins, it's a grading team and finalizer.
They don't make money on the stickers, they make money on buying and selling the coins. They don't even charge collectors for the coins that don't sticker. You get a free opinion from a team of 4 experts.
Yes, there are CAC price guides. In fact, the common industry guides include values for CAC and non'CAC.
1. I was asking a question, not making an assumption.
2. My mistake.
3. I thought that they sold a service. I did not know that they bought the coins, then stickered them to resell them. Can I send in coins to be stickered or rejected and returned to me? I really don't know how this works. Hey, I am an old guy, getting older any day. I am sorry if I affended anyone with this posting.
They don't buy the coins when sent in for stickers, at least not normally. You can send in and you get them back, stickered or not. If you want to sell, you can ask for a quote.
I apologize if I came off as crusty but this has been beaten to death on this forum and it sounded like you were being critical with a faulty understanding of how it works.
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
Hello xxxxxxx
The coin arrived this morning and I am fully satisfied.
This makes xx down and xx to go on my date set, all PCGS xxxx. I still need xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Mints do not matter to me, although I must be cost conscious and I will not buy gold shield or CAC holders (for the sake of uniformity).
@amwldcoin said:
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
Hello xxxxxxx
The coin arrived this morning and I am fully satisfied.
This makes xx down and xx to go on my date set, all PCGS xxxx. I still need xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Mints do not matter to me, although I must be cost conscious and I will not buy gold shield or CAC holders (for the sake of uniformity).
Your customer didn't say that at all. He just doesn't want the green sticker breaking up the uniformity. If he had bought a CAC coin first, he would have bought all CAC - for the sake of uniformity.
@amwldcoin said:
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
I hope he's collecting common coins, it would sure be a shame to come across the perfect piece for his collection but it was in the wrong plastic or had the wrong label.
BTW... nice to hear about a collector who's not brainwashed.
@amwldcoin said:
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
I hope he's collecting common coins, it would sure be a shame to come across the perfect piece for his collection but it was in the wrong plastic or had the wrong label.
BTW... nice to hear about a collector who's not brainwashed.
Yes. It's nice to see a collector who cares more about how the plastic looks than the coin.
@amwldcoin said:
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
I hope he's collecting common coins, it would sure be a shame to come across the perfect piece for his collection but it was in the wrong plastic or had the wrong label.
BTW... nice to hear about a collector who's not brainwashed.
Yes. It's nice to see a collector who cares more about how the plastic looks than the coin.
You really do stoop low don't you. Maybe he's watching this thread and will learn about you!
@amwldcoin said:
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
I hope he's collecting common coins, it would sure be a shame to come across the perfect piece for his collection but it was in the wrong plastic or had the wrong label.
BTW... nice to hear about a collector who's not brainwashed.
Yes. It's nice to see a collector who cares more about how the plastic looks than the coin.
You really do stoop low don't you. Maybe he's watching this thread and will learn about you!
He will learn that I can read.
He'll learn that I don't care how he collects or why. Be it plastic or raw, stickered or not, I don't care.
He'll learn that I wouldn't twist HIS words to make MY point.
Seriously, think about what he wrote and not how you feel about CAC. He doesn't want either gold shield or CAC because he wants the plastic to match. He's not the only one and I don't care if he wants to do it that way. But I don't know how you can interpret that to mean he's trusting his judgment on the COIN. The clear implication of his statement is that he would turn down an equal coin for the same or even less money if it is in the wrong plastic or has a nasty sticker on it. That's not a repudiation of CAC, it's a fashion statement about stickers and gold shields.
@amwldcoin - There is a collector for everything. There is a very big spectrum when it comes to quality. If someone is happy with a CAC reject then that’s great. More power to them…. Same is true for those that refuse to buy a CAC reject. More power to them. Whatever makes the collector happy is what they should pursue.
@Crusty said: @amwldcoin - There is a collector for everything. There is a very big spectrum when it comes to quality. If someone is happy with a CAC reject then that’s great. More power to them…. Same is true for those that refuse to buy a CAC reject. More power to them. Whatever makes the collector happy is what they should pursue.
Perhaps @oreville will comment. I'm selling off a large hoard of Barber Halves I spent over a decade building. I would wager the majority of my coins have never been to CAC. Oreville helped a customer build a set and a very very high majority of the coins they purchased from me did CAC according to a comment he made here.
On a note you may and a few others may not like, I'm on the same path now with Seated Dollars! I already have over 2 rolls in PCGS plastic!
@amwldcoin said:
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
I hope he's collecting common coins, it would sure be a shame to come across the perfect piece for his collection but it was in the wrong plastic or had the wrong label.
BTW... nice to hear about a collector who's not brainwashed.
Yes. It's nice to see a collector who cares more about how the plastic looks than the coin.
You really do stoop low don't you. Maybe he's watching this thread and will learn about you!
He will learn that I can read.
He'll learn that I don't care how he collects or why. Be it plastic or raw, stickered or not, I don't care.
He'll learn that I wouldn't twist HIS words to make MY point.
Seriously, think about what he wrote and not how you feel about CAC. He doesn't want either gold shield or CAC because he wants the plastic to match. He's not the only one and I don't care if he wants to do it that way. But I don't know how you can interpret that to mean he's trusting his judgment on the COIN. The clear implication of his statement is that he would turn down an equal coin for the same or even less money if it is in the wrong plastic or has a nasty sticker on it. That's not a repudiation of CAC, it's a fashion statement about stickers and gold shields.
So! He's not enslaved to the mantra a coin must have a bean. That's my point which you seem to want to twist around and unleash your keyboard warrior agenda at! Read my reply to @Crusty
I shipped off some notes for grading today - CSA, Obsoletes. I could get excited about CAC if making my own / submitting getting some stickered. Then if they brought good money on the bourse …invest some more. I may give them a call…
@amwldcoin said:
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
I hope he's collecting common coins, it would sure be a shame to come across the perfect piece for his collection but it was in the wrong plastic or had the wrong label.
BTW... nice to hear about a collector who's not brainwashed.
Yes. It's nice to see a collector who cares more about how the plastic looks than the coin.
You really do stoop low don't you. Maybe he's watching this thread and will learn about you!
He will learn that I can read.
He'll learn that I don't care how he collects or why. Be it plastic or raw, stickered or not, I don't care.
He'll learn that I wouldn't twist HIS words to make MY point.
Seriously, think about what he wrote and not how you feel about CAC. He doesn't want either gold shield or CAC because he wants the plastic to match. He's not the only one and I don't care if he wants to do it that way. But I don't know how you can interpret that to mean he's trusting his judgment on the COIN. The clear implication of his statement is that he would turn down an equal coin for the same or even less money if it is in the wrong plastic or has a nasty sticker on it. That's not a repudiation of CAC, it's a fashion statement about stickers and gold shields.
So! He's not enslaved to the mantra a coin must have a bean. That's my point which you seem to want to twist around and unleash your keyboard warrior agenda at! Read my reply to @Crusty
That is a ridiculous reading of what he said.
And if you don't want responses, you should stay away from your own keyboard. You introduced your fashionista customer into the CAC discussion when he said nothing about the merits of CAC. He's also not a slave to gold shields. Are you really advocating for collecting uniform plastic?
@MasonG said:
How is insisting that a coin not have a CAC sticker any less enslaved than insisting that it does?
The difference is that you can remove the CAC sticker if you don't want it for uniformity of slab appearance.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@amwldcoin - I would guess that you are probably one of the best in the game when it comes to barber coinage. Most of your coins probably would CAC, or at least I’d hope they would. It would not surprise me if 8 out of 10 of your barbers would CAC upon submission. But the Seated Dollar series is a completely different animal. It would not surprise me if 9 out of 10 failed to CAC. It doesn’t bother me that you buy coins without CAC. You being happy with what you have is the key. But why does it bother you that some people don’t want CAC rejects? Ultimately what you buy for your collection (non cac) and what I buy for my collection (CAC only) is a personal decision and we have our own reasons for making that choice. BTW… I’m happy to watch you build your set. I actually get enjoyment from it. Of course there are coins I would not be happy with that you own. just like you would feel the same way looking at my collection. But who cares. We are both happy with what we have.
@MasonG said:
How is insisting that a coin not have a CAC sticker any less enslaved than insisting that it does?
The difference is that you can remove the CAC sticker if you don't want it for uniformity of slab appearance.
The collector noted above is said to have claimed that he will not buy coins with CAC stickers, so removing one is not relevant to the question.
I was speaking in general but thank you for sharing that with us.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Apologies for not recognizing that your earlier comment quoting me was, in fact, not intended as a reply to me. And for sharing your actual intention with us.
@MasonG said:
How is insisting that a coin not have a CAC sticker any less enslaved than insisting that it does?
The difference is that you can remove the CAC sticker if you don't want it for uniformity of slab appearance.
The collector noted above is said to have claimed that he will not buy coins with CAC stickers, so removing one is not relevant to the question.
Where did you read this into the conversation???
Hello xxxxxxx
The coin arrived this morning and I am fully satisfied.
This makes xx down and xx to go on my date set, all PCGS xxxx. I still need xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Mints do not matter to me, although I must be cost conscious and I will not buy gold shield or CAC holders (for the sake of uniformity).
@amwldcoin said:
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
Hello xxxxxxx
The coin arrived this morning and I am fully satisfied.
This makes xx down and xx to go on my date set, all PCGS xxxx. I still need xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Mints do not matter to me, although I must be cost conscious and I will not buy gold shield or CAC holders (for the sake of uniformity).
@Crusty said: @amwldcoin - I would guess that you are probably one of the best in the game when it comes to barber coinage. Most of your coins probably would CAC, or at least I’d hope they would. It would not surprise me if 8 out of 10 of your barbers would CAC upon submission. But the Seated Dollar series is a completely different animal. It would not surprise me if 9 out of 10 failed to CAC. It doesn’t bother me that you buy coins without CAC. You being happy with what you have is the key. But why does it bother you that some people don’t want CAC rejects? Ultimately what you buy for your collection (non cac) and what I buy for my collection (CAC only) is a personal decision and we have our own reasons for making that choice. BTW… I’m happy to watch you build your set. I actually get enjoyment from it. Of course there are coins I would not be happy with that you own. just like you would feel the same way looking at my collection. But who cares. We are both happy with what we have.
I guess the main reason is I don't buy into the CAC mantra. I've seen coins fail that make me say WTF and I've seen coins that pass that make me say WTF! Nuff said!
Don’t you see the same thing with the top grading services? Why don’t you have the same feeling about them?
@amwldcoin said:
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
I hope he's collecting common coins, it would sure be a shame to come across the perfect piece for his collection but it was in the wrong plastic or had the wrong label.
BTW... nice to hear about a collector who's not brainwashed.
Yes. It's nice to see a collector who cares more about how the plastic looks than the coin.
You really do stoop low don't you. Maybe he's watching this thread and will learn about you!
He will learn that I can read.
He'll learn that I don't care how he collects or why. Be it plastic or raw, stickered or not, I don't care.
He'll learn that I wouldn't twist HIS words to make MY point.
Seriously, think about what he wrote and not how you feel about CAC. He doesn't want either gold shield or CAC because he wants the plastic to match. He's not the only one and I don't care if he wants to do it that way. But I don't know how you can interpret that to mean he's trusting his judgment on the COIN. The clear implication of his statement is that he would turn down an equal coin for the same or even less money if it is in the wrong plastic or has a nasty sticker on it. That's not a repudiation of CAC, it's a fashion statement about stickers and gold shields.
So! He's not enslaved to the mantra a coin must have a bean. That's my point which you seem to want to twist around and unleash your keyboard warrior agenda at! Read my reply to @Crusty
That is a ridiculous reading of what he said.
And if you don't want responses, you should stay away from your own keyboard. You introduced your fashionista customer into the CAC discussion when he said nothing about the merits of CAC. He's also not a slave to gold shields. Are you really advocating for collecting uniform plastic?
Dud! I'm sorry, but we are from a different planet. Are you onna the teachers Fing up our kids?????
@amwldcoin said:
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
Hello xxxxxxx
The coin arrived this morning and I am fully satisfied.
This makes xx down and xx to go on my date set, all PCGS xxxx. I still need xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Mints do not matter to me, although I must be cost conscious and I will not buy gold shield or CAC holders (for the sake of uniformity).
This is where I read it.
It is so clear, only blind hatred of CAC could possibly result in amwld's misreading of it. There is nothing in that message that says anything about the merits of CAC. He clearly just wants the plastic to look identical.
@Crusty said: @amwldcoin - I would guess that you are probably one of the best in the game when it comes to barber coinage. Most of your coins probably would CAC, or at least I’d hope they would. It would not surprise me if 8 out of 10 of your barbers would CAC upon submission. But the Seated Dollar series is a completely different animal. It would not surprise me if 9 out of 10 failed to CAC. It doesn’t bother me that you buy coins without CAC. You being happy with what you have is the key. But why does it bother you that some people don’t want CAC rejects? Ultimately what you buy for your collection (non cac) and what I buy for my collection (CAC only) is a personal decision and we have our own reasons for making that choice. BTW… I’m happy to watch you build your set. I actually get enjoyment from it. Of course there are coins I would not be happy with that you own. just like you would feel the same way looking at my collection. But who cares. We are both happy with what we have.
I guess the main reason is I don't buy into the CAC mantra. I've seen coins fail that make me say WTF and I've seen coins that pass that make me say WTF! Nuff said!
Don’t you see the same thing with the top grading services? Why don’t you have the same feeling about them?
@amwldcoin said:
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
Hello xxxxxxx
The coin arrived this morning and I am fully satisfied.
This makes xx down and xx to go on my date set, all PCGS xxxx. I still need xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Mints do not matter to me, although I must be cost conscious and I will not buy gold shield or CAC holders (for the sake of uniformity).
This is where I read it.
It is so clear, only blind hatred of CAC could possibly result in amwld's misreading of it. There is nothing in that message that says anything about the merits of CAC. He clearly just wants the plastic to look identical.
That's the way it looks to me. Kind of like this...
Collector who doesn't want CAC stickers on his slabs = not enslaved and brainwashed
Collector who wants CAC stickers on his slabs = enslaved and brainwashed
@Crusty said: @amwldcoin - I would guess that you are probably one of the best in the game when it comes to barber coinage. Most of your coins probably would CAC, or at least I’d hope they would. It would not surprise me if 8 out of 10 of your barbers would CAC upon submission. But the Seated Dollar series is a completely different animal. It would not surprise me if 9 out of 10 failed to CAC. It doesn’t bother me that you buy coins without CAC. You being happy with what you have is the key. But why does it bother you that some people don’t want CAC rejects? Ultimately what you buy for your collection (non cac) and what I buy for my collection (CAC only) is a personal decision and we have our own reasons for making that choice. BTW… I’m happy to watch you build your set. I actually get enjoyment from it. Of course there are coins I would not be happy with that you own. just like you would feel the same way looking at my collection. But who cares. We are both happy with what we have.
I guess the main reason is I don't buy into the CAC mantra. I've seen coins fail that make me say WTF and I've seen coins that pass that make me say WTF! Nuff said!
I think most of us and many dealers that I've talked to have had the same WTF moments that you are referring to. Also, I agree with the 'nuff said.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Dud! I'm sorry, but we are from a different planet. Are you onna the teachers Fing up our kids?????
What the hell does that mean?
He’s saying you’re a dud, which isn’t nearly as endearing as dude. He’s also implying that you’re an alien….or maybe it’s all the rest of us are the aliens, and you’re the earthling, not sure. I won’t even touch the last statement as it’s more suited to a Qanon forum than a coin forum.
One thing about the CAC situation is it’s an emotionally loaded issue whether somebody pro or con which will continue for sometime. I think some of them would argue until RCI hades freezes over.
Since not a CAC investor (sold out of them) at this time I am just an observer. I have a view towards making my own (submittal) then further evaluation of sales demand, profitability potential.
The CAC myth doesn't necessarily conflate with the myth of the CAC thread myth; but then the CAC thread myth may, or may not, share a configuration with the CAC myth. Please refer all future questions to the Department of Redundancy Department. Hope that clears it up for once and for all.
...as we know, there are CAC known knowns; there are CAC things we know we know. We also know there are CAC known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some CAC things we do not know.
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
@MasonG said:
One known thing is that CAC has broken a number of people. Whether they are able to pull themselves together again is still up in the air.
Would this be known as CAC Derangement Syndrome?
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I have never sent in a coin for grading, let alone to get the green bean. I am currently collecting graded mint state red Lincoln Cents, working on 1932 through 1958. Nearly all are MS 66 RD, and none have a CAC sticker. Fore me it means little, and for other it may mean a good deal. Too often for me, the extra premium is not that valuable.
Comments
Goodness!!! Quite the discussion!
"Know what you like and like what you buy".
So I started this thread January 29, 2022, it is now coming up on 6 months, once left fallow, then re-activated, I guess we need some CAC in our lives eh? After hearing the discussion, my take on it is that yes CAC is a market maker in their limited niche. Alot of good CAC topics are now being discussed. Carry on.
Keep in mind that all CAC coins are not equal and not all of them should have a premium - in my experience after several hundred submissions, they like coins that did not have human intervention (i.e. original) and these can have negative eye appeal in some cases. I bought into the idea that CAC means good for any coin, but learned that these negative eye appeal coins with their originality play to a certain type of collection, and prefer them not to be in mine. But hey, eye appeal is in the eye of the beholder. So which would you choose below?
This one is a 'leetle' too much 'original' for me - could be considered negative eye appeal because it is pretty dark. CAC loves these if no sign of being messed with. My images put this coin it is best light - but it is a rare die marriage. Should it have a premium? Probably not.
Here are 2 from a year later, common die marriages, big difference is these has some nice colors in the toning - to me it is nice eye appeal yet have a largely un-messed with look. Positive eye appeal and carry strong premiums as they just don't come like this in the bust quarter series every day.
So i prefer the look of the last 2 coins when choosing CAC coins, and I steer away from examples like the first one now even when beaned.
Best, SH
I do have hundreds of raw coins in my safe-deposit box also, and you are right I did get most of them before PCGS existed-most of them in albums. A lot of them will be slabbed by PCGS eventually and I am not arguing against slabbing. I don't know where you got that idea. I am not against CAC sticker either.
I have no idea what you are talking about. All I am saying is that whoever started the CAC sticker is a brilliant person and a great entrepreneur. Comment meant to praise- not vilify. Truely, a lot of thinking and work went into it. I wish I would have thought of it. Think about it. He can run his company from anywhere just by moving his stickers and his computer. Easy to run company. People send you slabs you sticker (or not sticker) them and send them back.
You are reading something into this that I did not mean or say.
Personally, I really don't care if a slab has a CAC sticker or not. Is it worthwhile to purchase a really nice slabbed coin without a CAC sticker to send to CAC to resell after it gets the sticker? Does a CAC sticker add that much value to a coin to make it worthwhile? Should I have my coins CAC'ed after slabbing them?
Is it worthwhile to purchase a really nice slabbed coin without a CAC sticker to send to CAC to resell after it gets the sticker? Does a CAC sticker add that much value to a coin to make it worthwhile? Should I have my coins CAC'ed after slabbing them?
Yes, if you can find a really nice slabbed coin without a CAC sticker.
I wish CAC shared which cert #'s were rejected. That way we wouldn't have to waste our time sending in coins that were already sent in and didn't make the cut.
Other than the brilliance of JA, every other assertion/implicstion of yours was either wrong or sell understood.
Yes, there are CAC price guides. In fact, the common industry guides include values for CAC and non'CAC.
There are CAC price guides besides CAC / CPG?
Coin Facts and Coin Prices (NN) don’t do CAC values. I don’t think Bluebook does either. Not recommending they do. CPG (based on CDN) of course does which is a another source for me plus linked w CAC (if I understand their relationship correctly). Fits in w my like to c it all on one page. Then I bookmark certain issues of interest track how they doing.
I found the comment Richard G (NN) said about CAC values in this months Coin Market (Coin Prices), (NN) very interesting. Take a look at it. It has to do with the importance of eye appeal. I like his columns on the market a lot, their bullion US Coins price guide on one page, and consider him an expert well informed unbiased source on the coin market and other issues.
I then did my monthly analysis of CAC on eBay. Came up w 4pct for CAC Pcgs and 2pct CAC NGC. Then did a filter for cac by bin / lowest price first see if anything (deal) just had to have. Nada. Many priced 2-3x CP convinced me need look no further.
Myths, over time, may become legends.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All of Us
ANA LM, LSCC, EAC, FUN
@rec78 - The demand for CAC service is extremely high. There are two ways to submit. The first is to become a collector member. This is the best way because CAC doesn’t charge collectors if they reject the coins. You only pay the fee if your coin is accepted and earns the sticker. In order to become a collector member you need to call them and get put on the waiting list. I know in the past they were helping LSCC members get in. The collector membership is free. The other method is to find a dealer who has a dealer membership and have him submit for you. This will cost money and will also mean you have to pay for coins if they sticker or not. Because dealers have to pay regardless of if the coins pass or fail.
They don't buy the coins when sent in for stickers, at least not normally. You can send in and you get them back, stickered or not. If you want to sell, you can ask for a quote.
I apologize if I came off as crusty but this has been beaten to death on this forum and it sounded like you were being critical with a faulty understanding of how it works.
I just got this message from a sensible collector who trusts his judgement and isn't brainwashed. I love it!
Hello xxxxxxx
The coin arrived this morning and I am fully satisfied.
This makes xx down and xx to go on my date set, all PCGS xxxx. I still need xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Mints do not matter to me, although I must be cost conscious and I will not buy gold shield or CAC holders (for the sake of uniformity).
Your customer didn't say that at all. He just doesn't want the green sticker breaking up the uniformity. If he had bought a CAC coin first, he would have bought all CAC - for the sake of uniformity.
Reading is fundamental.
I hope he's collecting common coins, it would sure be a shame to come across the perfect piece for his collection but it was in the wrong plastic or had the wrong label.
BTW... nice to hear about a collector who's not brainwashed.
Yes. It's nice to see a collector who cares more about how the plastic looks than the coin.
You really do stoop low don't you. Maybe he's watching this thread and will learn about you!
He will learn that I can read.
He'll learn that I don't care how he collects or why. Be it plastic or raw, stickered or not, I don't care.
He'll learn that I wouldn't twist HIS words to make MY point.
Seriously, think about what he wrote and not how you feel about CAC. He doesn't want either gold shield or CAC because he wants the plastic to match. He's not the only one and I don't care if he wants to do it that way. But I don't know how you can interpret that to mean he's trusting his judgment on the COIN. The clear implication of his statement is that he would turn down an equal coin for the same or even less money if it is in the wrong plastic or has a nasty sticker on it. That's not a repudiation of CAC, it's a fashion statement about stickers and gold shields.
@amwldcoin - There is a collector for everything. There is a very big spectrum when it comes to quality. If someone is happy with a CAC reject then that’s great. More power to them…. Same is true for those that refuse to buy a CAC reject. More power to them. Whatever makes the collector happy is what they should pursue.
Perhaps @oreville will comment. I'm selling off a large hoard of Barber Halves I spent over a decade building. I would wager the majority of my coins have never been to CAC. Oreville helped a customer build a set and a very very high majority of the coins they purchased from me did CAC according to a comment he made here.
On a note you may and a few others may not like, I'm on the same path now with Seated Dollars! I already have over 2 rolls in PCGS plastic!
So! He's not enslaved to the mantra a coin must have a bean. That's my point which you seem to want to twist around and unleash your keyboard warrior agenda at! Read my reply to @Crusty
How is insisting that a coin not have a CAC sticker any less enslaved than insisting that it does?
I shipped off some notes for grading today - CSA, Obsoletes. I could get excited about CAC if making my own / submitting getting some stickered. Then if they brought good money on the bourse …invest some more. I may give them a call…
That is a ridiculous reading of what he said.
And if you don't want responses, you should stay away from your own keyboard. You introduced your fashionista customer into the CAC discussion when he said nothing about the merits of CAC. He's also not a slave to gold shields. Are you really advocating for collecting uniform plastic?
The difference is that you can remove the CAC sticker if you don't want it for uniformity of slab appearance.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The collector noted above is said to have claimed that he will not buy coins with CAC stickers, so removing one is not relevant to the question.
@amwldcoin - I would guess that you are probably one of the best in the game when it comes to barber coinage. Most of your coins probably would CAC, or at least I’d hope they would. It would not surprise me if 8 out of 10 of your barbers would CAC upon submission. But the Seated Dollar series is a completely different animal. It would not surprise me if 9 out of 10 failed to CAC. It doesn’t bother me that you buy coins without CAC. You being happy with what you have is the key. But why does it bother you that some people don’t want CAC rejects? Ultimately what you buy for your collection (non cac) and what I buy for my collection (CAC only) is a personal decision and we have our own reasons for making that choice. BTW… I’m happy to watch you build your set. I actually get enjoyment from it. Of course there are coins I would not be happy with that you own. just like you would feel the same way looking at my collection. But who cares. We are both happy with what we have.
I was speaking in general but thank you for sharing that with us.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Apologies for not recognizing that your earlier comment quoting me was, in fact, not intended as a reply to me. And for sharing your actual intention with us.
Where did you read this into the conversation???
Bullsh*t! on what he said!
Hello xxxxxxx
The coin arrived this morning and I am fully satisfied.
This makes xx down and xx to go on my date set, all PCGS xxxx. I still need xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Mints do not matter to me, although I must be cost conscious and I will not buy gold shield or CAC holders (for the sake of uniformity).
(From your earlier post, July 29, 2022 10:02AM)
This is where I read it.
There's just no wrapping your mind around how some will openly disparage the way someone else finds enjoyment in this hobby.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins, justindan, doubleeagle07
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
Don’t you see the same thing with the top grading services? Why don’t you have the same feeling about them?
What the hell does that mean?
It is so clear, only blind hatred of CAC could possibly result in amwld's misreading of it. There is nothing in that message that says anything about the merits of CAC. He clearly just wants the plastic to look identical.
Exactly.
That's the way it looks to me. Kind of like this...
Collector who doesn't want CAC stickers on his slabs = not enslaved and brainwashed
Collector who wants CAC stickers on his slabs = enslaved and brainwashed
I think most of us and many dealers that I've talked to have had the same WTF moments that you are referring to. Also, I agree with the 'nuff said.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
He’s saying you’re a dud, which isn’t nearly as endearing as dude. He’s also implying that you’re an alien….or maybe it’s all the rest of us are the aliens, and you’re the earthling, not sure. I won’t even touch the last statement as it’s more suited to a Qanon forum than a coin forum.
One thing about the CAC situation is it’s an emotionally loaded issue whether somebody pro or con which will continue for sometime. I think some of them would argue until RCI hades freezes over.
Since not a CAC investor (sold out of them) at this time I am just an observer. I have a view towards making my own (submittal) then further evaluation of sales demand, profitability potential.
There is the CAC myth not to be confused with the myth of the CAC myth thread... When will it end??
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
The CAC myth doesn't necessarily conflate with the myth of the CAC thread myth; but then the CAC thread myth may, or may not, share a configuration with the CAC myth. Please refer all future questions to the Department of Redundancy Department. Hope that clears it up for once and for all.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins, justindan, doubleeagle07
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me. . . . . . .
...as we know, there are CAC known knowns; there are CAC things we know we know. We also know there are CAC known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some CAC things we do not know.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
One known thing is that CAC has broken a number of people. Whether they are able to pull themselves together again is still up in the air.
Would this be known as CAC Derangement Syndrome?
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I have never sent in a coin for grading, let alone to get the green bean. I am currently collecting graded mint state red Lincoln Cents, working on 1932 through 1958. Nearly all are MS 66 RD, and none have a CAC sticker. Fore me it means little, and for other it may mean a good deal. Too often for me, the extra premium is not that valuable.
I don't agree with how JA grades saints & he doesn't agree with how I grade them.
Pretty simple.
My Saint Set
I don’t know how to grade Saints but in a vacuum I’d side with JA.