Provenance, always important!
kaz
Posts: 9,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
from a HiBids auction, spotted by an alert CT member:
7
kaz
Posts: 9,219 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Does this label mean that an ANACS stabbed coin was submitted to PCI, cracked out, down graded and holdered. What does "DET" mean? Peace Roy
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DET probably is Details grade.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
As far as I can tell, it was a "crossover" from Anacs to PCI. When another CT member simply posted "provenance." it cracked me up.
DET = Details
It WAS ANACS VF20 Details (most likely for corrosion, IMO), now straight-graded with what PCI probably thought was a market-acceptable downgrade.
Straight grading details coins is just wrong.
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It's not that straight forward for old copper. There's a lot of straight graded coins from all the services that have done degree of porosity.
@jmlanzaf well they should have details graded those
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It's PCI's grade. That's why they put PCI ahead of F12 on their label for the 1799 cent.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 yes PCI took an ANACS coin that was details graded and crossed it into a straight grade holder.
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I'd be more concerned that it's genuine.
That slab and alleged ex-ANACS provenance is not comforting.
Excellent point! That PCI slab label doesn't look like any that I've seen before. Also, it's strange that someone would cross a rare coin to a PCI slab.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I would definitely want to see that one in hand prior to any commitment of cash. Just the picture (and yes, not a great one for evaluation) looks 'off' to me. While not an old copper expert, I do look at a lot of them. Cheers, RickO
The whole thing is weird, fwiw, hmmm
I’d need to see it in a PCGS slab, as I don’t even trust myself, or many others. And if the reverse is in similar condition, this is at least a $5k coin even in a genny holder.
I once owned an altered 1799 that fooled three EAC dealers. Fortunately Tom Reynolds caught it, and even more fortunately I was refunded for it, a year after buying it.
Sheldon reported seeing masterpiece fakes in the 1940’s. My piece came from a private collection assembled in the late ’50’s. I can imagine the forgers have only gotten better since then.
The only point I was trying to make is that it's THEIR (PCI's) holder. The reality, of course, is that the TPG's all have different standards for grading. I bought an 1871 dated IHC in a NGC holder that they assigned the grade F12, NGC F12. Well, the reality is the coin is just a nice VG, maybe VG10 at PCGS. What's the difference in value in these from VG to F no matter who's doing the grade assigning? About $80. When contemplating a purchase, one should always ask themself this question: Is this coin worth the money being asked for it? For me the price number is the only number that really matters at the end of the day. In other words, call the piece whatever number you want for the grade. How much do you want for it?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
This is one that I would crack out and send it into NGC or PCGS.
I would do this so that I am sure that it is an authentic coin.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
If you didn’t crack it out, you could get ANACS and PCI provenance listed on the insert
Is that the real PCI or a knock-off? I don't recall the oldest slabs maybe. That is a low serial number. But what strikes me as odd is that I know ANACS didn't assign details grades until more recently. They were doing exclusively net grades in the beginning, probably spanning the years PCI was running. There was a little while when ANACS posted a net and details on the tag.