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Provenance, always important!

kazkaz Posts: 9,064 ✭✭✭✭✭

from a HiBids auction, spotted by an alert CT member:

Comments

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does this label mean that an ANACS stabbed coin was submitted to PCI, cracked out, down graded and holdered. What does "DET" mean? Peace Roy

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  • kazkaz Posts: 9,064 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As far as I can tell, it was a "crossover" from Anacs to PCI. When another CT member simply posted "provenance." it cracked me up.

  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2022 4:21PM

    DET = Details

    It WAS ANACS VF20 Details (most likely for corrosion, IMO), now straight-graded with what PCI probably thought was a market-acceptable downgrade.

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Straight grading details coins is just wrong.

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  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    Straight grading details coins is just wrong.

    It's not that straight forward for old copper. There's a lot of straight graded coins from all the services that have done degree of porosity.

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf well they should have details graded those

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  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    Straight grading details coins is just wrong.

    It's PCI's grade. That's why they put PCI ahead of F12 on their label for the 1799 cent.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mr1874 yes PCI took an ANACS coin that was details graded and crossed it into a straight grade holder.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,137 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd be more concerned that it's genuine.
    That slab and alleged ex-ANACS provenance is not comforting.

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  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerguy21D said:
    I'd be more concerned that it's genuine.
    That slab and alleged ex-ANACS provenance is not comforting.

    Excellent point! That PCI slab label doesn't look like any that I've seen before. Also, it's strange that someone would cross a rare coin to a PCI slab.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would definitely want to see that one in hand prior to any commitment of cash. Just the picture (and yes, not a great one for evaluation) looks 'off' to me. While not an old copper expert, I do look at a lot of them. Cheers, RickO

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,474 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2022 6:57AM

    The whole thing is weird, fwiw, hmmm

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,137 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    I would definitely want to see that one in hand prior to any commitment of cash. Just the picture (and yes, not a great one for evaluation) looks 'off' to me. While not an old copper expert, I do look at a lot of them. Cheers, RickO

    I’d need to see it in a PCGS slab, as I don’t even trust myself, or many others. And if the reverse is in similar condition, this is at least a $5k coin even in a genny holder.

    I once owned an altered 1799 that fooled three EAC dealers. Fortunately Tom Reynolds caught it, and even more fortunately I was refunded for it, a year after buying it.
    Sheldon reported seeing masterpiece fakes in the 1940’s. My piece came from a private collection assembled in the late ’50’s. I can imagine the forgers have only gotten better since then.

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  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2022 9:49AM

    @gumby1234 said:
    @mr1874 yes PCI took an ANACS coin that was details graded and crossed it into a straight grade holder.

    The only point I was trying to make is that it's THEIR (PCI's) holder. The reality, of course, is that the TPG's all have different standards for grading. I bought an 1871 dated IHC in a NGC holder that they assigned the grade F12, NGC F12. Well, the reality is the coin is just a nice VG, maybe VG10 at PCGS. What's the difference in value in these from VG to F no matter who's doing the grade assigning? About $80. When contemplating a purchase, one should always ask themself this question: Is this coin worth the money being asked for it? For me the price number is the only number that really matters at the end of the day. In other words, call the piece whatever number you want for the grade. How much do you want for it?

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is one that I would crack out and send it into NGC or PCGS.
    I would do this so that I am sure that it is an authentic coin.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2022 10:33AM

    @WAYNEAS said:
    This is one that I would crack out and send it into NGC or PCGS.
    I would do this so that I am sure that it is an authentic coin.
    Wayne

    If you didn’t crack it out, you could get ANACS and PCI provenance listed on the insert ;)

  • alefzeroalefzero Posts: 869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is that the real PCI or a knock-off? I don't recall the oldest slabs maybe. That is a low serial number. But what strikes me as odd is that I know ANACS didn't assign details grades until more recently. They were doing exclusively net grades in the beginning, probably spanning the years PCI was running. There was a little while when ANACS posted a net and details on the tag.

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