Another 2004 Wisconsin Lower Lear Error Found in Mesa Arizona Yesterday, Jan 25, 2022
arby96
Posts: 229 ✭✭✭
Just wanted to let you all know a friend of mine yesterday found another 2004 Wisconsin Lower Leaf Error! That is two found this month. Not Bad. That excites me. So get out there and start CRH!!! The photo enclosed is of the Quarter he found.
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This was found in Masa Arizona!
I believe that Arizona was the distribution area for these quarters. The chances are greater if you're in the distribution area to look for certain errors.
Nice find. I didn’t think there’d be a market for these, but a quick “sold” items search on eBay proved me wrong.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Thanks for the heads up. I have a roll of these I never opened (yet)
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Nice!
I think its great they are still being found.
I remember the 3 coin slabs with the high/low and normal quarters. I really liked those, but never picked one up.
It’s cool that they’re still in the wild.
I don’t recall how common/rare they were supposed to be.
I read that approximately 50,000 were put into circulation. I don't think they truly know how many to be honest.
Great find…..I remember when these errors started appearing in the market I purchased many rolls and unopened mint boxes of WI quarters. To date, I have not opened a single box or roll. CRH does have its benefits.
I am surprised they are still showing up.... I looked for one for a while, during the initial period of excitement... Never found one (much like my search for a W quarter in the wild). I will check my quarter jar.. maybe today, it was minus three degrees outside when I took the dogs out.... Way too cold..... Indoor activities today for sure. Cheers, RickO
Always wanted to find one of these, but never did. Have since sold most of my SHQ and moved on.
Great find.
I was going to purchase a set of these (both the high and low leaf), but never did.
I wanted them in slabs, but I never pulled the trigger on getting them.
With the rise in coin prices lately, I can only buy coins for my registry sets.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Great discovery! Congrats and thanks for sharing these!
I still consider these among of the most popular and well known modern varieties!
How many of the low and high leaf varieties are known?
Around the Tucson AZ area, if my memory is correct it was a customer of Rick Snow (Eagle Eye Coins) that found the discovery coin.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Hi Everyone !! Your interest in the 2004 D Wisconsin Extra Leaf Quarters is Great !! I thought most collectors had forgotten about these hard to find state quarters. Much has been said about there origin, mintage, Discovery Area and original find.
Ask me questions and I will try to help with solid information. I found my fist Extra Leaf Quarter in 02/05 here in the SA, Tx area. Mark. Ebay (ExtraLeafquarter).
Finding a scarce WI extra leaf quarter now in circulation is truly a nice find in any condition.
I've been looking since 2004, nothing here in NY
BHNC #203
I was buying and selling them for a few years but have none left now. They are a great coin to own and always will be in demand.
Here is some Extra Leaf Quarter Info.: Two balistic bags of 2004 D Wi. Quarters were shipped out of the Denver Mint prior to late November (Thanksgiving) 2004. One went to AZ, one was shipped to the Branch Federal Resverve in San Antonio, Tx. The US Treasury Inspector General investigated the minting of the two "Defect" Denver Quarters. Their report took at least a year to report it's findings. In the report, it was stated that possibily up to 50,000 High Leaf coins were minted but that is simply an estimate. The report stated that a Mint employee turned the Schuller Press off and placed the "Defective" High Leaf Quarter on top of the press and then went to lunch that evening of Thanksgiving Holiday Weekend. He stated that the stamping at the press was runing again minting Defect Quarters. Sounds like an inside job !! I think that the Low Leaf coins were minted prior to the High Leafs and that accounts for more Lows discovered than Highs. There is no way to know with certainly how many Highs were made. A reliable source said that a Federal Court Judge ordered him to go to the Denver Mint and investigate the origin of the varitey coins. I had a great conversation with this gentleman. He explained that many of the 2004 Denver WI. Quarters were destroyed by the Mint. I asked how many and he said that they were accounted for by the Pound.
Keep in mind that several AZ coin dealers and collectors and residents looking for the scarce quarters found many in the Tuscon/Phoenix area. Bank of America received many of the coins. The ratio of the find was Two Lows for Every High. My search in 02/05 had a ratio of One Low to One High with very fer exceptions.
This thread prompted me to do a search on sale prices. I was a little surprised to see how well prices have held up after all these years. They're still in demand......
I am surprised they investigated these at all... the defect looks like it belongs there and as far as the treasury is concerned they are all quarters. Seems like a waste of tax dollars to investigate some 'defective' coins that still fulfil their primary purpose in commerce.
Collector, occasional seller
My guess is that because it was rumored to be done on purpose that the investigation was done. But yes a waste of tax dollars.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
They investigated so they could try to prevent in the future. Sounds logical.
@HIGHLOWLEAVES I have a number of unopened rolls, though not from the right release area. I would appreciate photos that show comparison of normal, high, and low so I know what to be looking for.
Concerning photos of the two variety quarters, Rick Snow (Eagle Eye Coin, Tucson) has two programs on Utube that show in detail each scarce extra leaf quarter. Bob Ford of Tucson is the person that discovered the odd coins and took them to Rob's local coin shop in 12/04. Bob sold a set early on using Ebay.. I think for $1.86 cents. The two coins were shown at the 2005 FUN Show in 01/05. I was told that David Bowers may have named then at the show.. Extra High/Extra Low Leaf Quarters. I do not know that to be a fact. 2005 - 2006 was the early time period for finding and unloading these coins. These coins are in the mintage range (certified) as the 3 leg buffalo and 1955/55 cent.
CoinFacts
Courtesy of CU & PCGS:
All ya gotta do is research. Or in this case : ask.
The US Mint has to at least make a pretense of not allowing employees to make their own designs and release them.
If these looked like accidental gouges then an investigation would not have been necessary. They appear to be quite intentional and in case anyone had any doubt about one of them then... ...well... ...there are two.
I suspect enough people are looking for these in circulation that any you find will be in AU53 or better condition. Most quarters don't get too far from their release point before getting down to this grade.
They aren't really "well traveled" until they are worn.
It's great to see you around.
I suppose there's still a lot of selling into strength?
That's the problem with scarce moderns. It's not just the lack of demand but some of the better types like these or varieties like the '82-NMM dime exist in hoards.
Imagine the interest in 1958-D extra wheat ear (high and low) cents!!! 50,000 would be sucked up by the market at higher prices in less than a week. With a backstory like the Wisconsin quarter they'd be far more popular than a three legged nickel.
Thanks for the pics @TwoSides2aCoin
Let the searches begin.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
I think you are about 17 years too late to search for these coins. You might find some W's though.
Thanks cladking for your imput. I have always respected your insight as to the modern US coins. These two designs were the product of a Denver Mint die shop employee. Not a Schuller Press mistake. More evidence.. there is a 2004 D Roosevelt Dime listed in the CPG that shows an Extra Ear that is an extra design in a curved shape just like the High Leaf WI variety. Those rare dimes were released in the San Diego, CA area originally. Try to find one of those rarities !! I think the account of the extra leaf quarters were reported so early on like in 01/05 Coin World and a full page ad in CW in 02/05 and then with Ebay activity, everyone and their brother were looking for them. People were traveling from out of state to AZ to locate and them then sell them. San Antonio and Austin were more sedate in the search. Many of the Texas coins were sold to AZ coin dealers. When if ever the State Quarters gain serious collectability again, these two coins may become very valuable. As far as existing hoards, most of the dealers and individuals that have had several in the past have cashed out over the 17 years. The population of the certified coins has not increased very much since 2006. Some of the numbers are resubmissions. With diligence, some of the non extra leaf quarters that were found mixed with the leaf quarters have various reverse die markers that I have shared with a few dealers.
‘The ratio of the find was Two Lows for Every High.’
In looking at the pop top graded coins at PCGS since the release of these coins about (18) years ago, the 2:1 ratio tracks those coins. PCGS has graded just 4 lows in MS67 as compared to a scant 2 highs in MS67. My personal experience with trying to cross NGC-MS68 graded coin(s) (as a number exist in that company grade) is that they don’t achieve MS67 on the attempted cross. I believe the last auction appearance of a pop 4/0 low PCGS coin fetched $6,000 at Heritage at Fun 2020. I didn’t “chase” that auction coin as I own the original pop 1 graded low at PCGS. I own both of the pop 2/0 highs after “stealing” the second one at public auction in 2019 (proving great registry coins do fall through the cracks at public auction all the time). At some point in 2022 or 2023, I might begin selling off my pop top and high grade dupe quarters as I “ain’t getting any younger”.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
What Wondercoin said that a few of the NGC MS 68 extra leaf coins did not cross over to PCGS MS 67 doesn't suprise me. i have contended that NGC grading of the two coins early on was somewhat generous. As the prices rose in late 2005 and 2006, I think that NGC started getting stingy with their grades. I say that because I submitted some in the Spring of 2006. "Ouch". By then, there was a strong market showing big price gains and demand. I have my own estimate of the surviving count of the Low and High Quarters. 15-20,000 Lows and 10-15,000 Highs. This is just my two cents.
I found 2 the past year here in NC, one graded 65. the other 62. I figure both were probably somehow spent from people who inherited collections that didnt realize what they were. We have lost a lot of coin collectors in this area the past two years.
Every WI quarter I find I look for the defect - no luck so far.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
I wonder if a coin album company will ever include both WI High/Low coins in their albums ? Maybe not in my lifetime. I talked to an executive of one such company back in 08/07 at the Milwaukee ANA Convention, just prior to the live presentation explaining these rare coins. That individual said that they thought that there were not enough error coins to justify their place in there State Quarter products. I disagreed then and even now.
If you're selling I might have to try to save some of my coins for afterward. I think a few sales would be a real shot in the arm for the modern markets since supply is one of the problems.
I usually interpret such statements to mean the publishers are buyers rather than sellers. They had slots for far tougher coins that these in older albums. I can see not including places in folders but they should be in albums.
Whether they put them in the album or not some percentage of people will collect them anyway.
I believe these are intentional and therefore "types" rather than "varieties". It would be analogous to Henning having worked at the mint and striking coins or how most of the 1804 dollars originated but struck of different type dies. This is unprecedented and we might all still be too close to see it.
If you're selling I might have to try to save some of my coins for afterward. I think a few sales would be a real shot in the arm for the modern markets since supply is one of the problems.
Not sure if the sale of a few of my dupes will move the needle in the modern market, but I certainly hope it might. Wondercoin
It is my understanding that the two extra leaf WI. D quarters were only found originally in bank wrapped rolls from two balistic mint bags and distributed in AZ & TX . None were found in the two Mint bags ($25/$100 face) sold to collectors. None were found in US Mint sets. Maybe this accounts for the TPG companies not grading any higher quality extra leaf quarters.
Great must have error of either omission or commission to have in a collection.
I like the hight leaf better than the low leaf myself.
I am not in the coin collecting business as I am just too old to be doing this stuff anymore but had some of these when they came out..
Your guess is probably better than mine but I'm sure what the modern market needs most is supply.
Much of the issue is that it's not profitable to slab the types of coins that are most in demand. Collectors want nice Gem or chGem material in common dates and scarcer dates for sets but all they can find are a handful of very high grade coins at prices they don't want to pay and low grade coins.
The coins you're contemplating selling are higher grade than this but it will tend to make more coins available.
There are a lot of moderns and modern collectors but their collections are small and growing very slowly. It's hard to find suitable coins in any grade and there's no urgency. More supply will go straight to collections.
Putting together a set of Gems used to be easy when nobody was doing it. Mint sets were cheap, plentiful, and very few were tarnished yet. Now they're not so easy to find, cost more, and are more likely to be tarnished or picked over. Gems still exist in the sets but you can go broke trying to buy enough '69 mint sets to find a Gem Philly quarter. The demand is there but the supply is not. With catalogs listing prices that make all these coins seem very common collectors are just waiting for them.
I believe when a sense of "urgency" materializes one of the first things to disappear for generations will be scarce dates like type "b" quarters, NMM dime, and the WI high and low leaf types. Of course there will be a lot more urgency to find the tough Gems because there will be a lot more collectors who desire them.
_"Much of the issue is that it's not profitable to slab the types of coins that are most in demand." _
Then, of course, there's also the same sort of trouble for those collecting from circulation; finding nice coins. No, very few are going to find the WI types but the chances of finding a nice attractive 1971 in any condition are getting increasingly remote. There are very few of these and they will tend to be cull or very low grade when found.
In 2000 you could still put together a VF+ set of quarters and an XF set of dimes all with nice attractive coins. Now a F set is getting tough. For those who think that's no problem because with the astronomical mintages there will always be VG and G sets this will never happen. It won't happen because most clads are lost, destroyed, or damaged long before they get even into F condition. The FED is apparently removing coin when they get down to VG - (or so) because they are too thin.
The odds are stacked against you if you are trying to find a nice attractive coin in VG. There's no real chance of finding a G or AG ever.
Moderns are very different than classics. They wear differently and have been used and abused differently. As many as 70% of the early dates are already gone and the ones left mostly weren't very pretty even when they were brand new. Most 1916-D dimes started pretty and were still good looking coins when they were recycled in a 1938 Packard. Most moderns were ugly when they were new and a few became pretty when the manufacturing flaws were worn off of them.
Mostly what's left now is not.
I always said the problem with moderns was lack of demand. Now days the demand is still a little tepid but the problem is supply.
@TwoSides2aCoin Thank you for the help.
It is great that a collector recognized and pulled an extra leaf quarter from circulation a few days ago in the Mesa, AZ area. After 2005 -2006, very few coins were found in circulation here in Central/South Texas area. With all of the media coverage that these coins received in February, 2005; everyone and their cousins were searching for "The Gold". I talked to one speculator type who paid someone or ones to travel to Tucson right after the fanfair and spent several days looking for the coins in circulation. He/they even went to laundrymats and car washes to secure some coins for the out-of-state financier. Then the "loot" was offered on Ebay. Those early days were something crazy. I felt sorry for people living outside of the release areas who searched for the elusive rarities and never found one in change.
There are plenty of them out there but most are in the hands of a relatively few people. If one of those people were to decide to sell them to a tv person there would be a big serge in people wanting them as they have been out of sight and forgotten about by most collectors.
There must be a bunch of them in existence. The error is on the die itself, not just a random coin here or there. Right?
Somewhere in the vicinity of 50K which is for both combined. More low than high leafs. They caught them early on so most of them were destroyed before being released.
I heard they melted down the offending quarters, and used them to make plumbing fixtures.
Mostly coin-cobb pipes...