there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
good point. I hadnt thought of that. I dont know about other unopened "authenticators" but at least according to Steve it sure sounds like he relies at least partly on some sort of "sense" or "feeling" when authenticating packs.
I, for one, do not get a very confident "feeling" if the person I am relying on (and paying) to "authenticate" my unopened product is relying in part to some sort of spidey sense to make his determination.
here is an excerpt from an interview steve gave discussing unopened product:
'Steve says that sometimes when he looks at a pack, there is a general sense that something is wrong. “Pay attention to anything that sends up a red flare.” But, he says, you should not be afraid to walk away when you get a bad feeling about a pack.'
the more the onion gets peeled back on this whole process, the less confident i am feeling...
there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
good point. I hadnt thought of that. I dont know about other unopened "authenticators" but at least according to Steve it sure sounds like he relies at least partly on some sort of "sense" or "feeling" when authenticating packs.
I, for one, do not get a very confident "feeling" if the person I am relying on (and paying) to "authenticate" my unopened product is relying in part to some sort of spidey sense to make his determination.
here is an excerpt from an interview steve gave discussing unopened product:
'Steve says that sometimes when he looks at a pack, there is a general sense that something is wrong. “Pay attention to anything that sends up a red flare.” But, he says, you should not be afraid to walk away when you get a bad feeling about a pack.'
the more the onion gets peeled back on this whole process, the less confident i am feeling...
maybe you have already said this but I don't want to waste my time scouring threads , do you collect unopened?
if you collect vintage unopened you would know that evaluating a pack is a judgement call. factories did not care or think the stuff was going to be worth the money it is today and therefore there are a million inconsistencies. anyone who collects this stuff seriously has had packs they need to make judgement calls on. the difference between Steve and the rest is that his "sense" or "feeling" is based on way more experience than any of us!
there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
80sOPC, I suppose you're entitled to your dumbass opinion. I'm extremely confident in my abilities, and I think my reputation speaks for itself. Your tell is the jealousy you have for someone like me. You wish you knew what I know, seen what I've seen, or could do what I do for a living.
Kevin, thanks for your kind words, but humility is not my strong suit, no matter how hard I try to work at it. I get trolled for speaking my mind and I get trolled for trying to be humble; can't win either way.
I just don't see it being worthwhile to do it for a living. The amount of shit people give Steve is overwhelming, and that was before this latest incident. Some of you are horrible people given the things I've witnessed at BBCE. I could authenticate 9,999 out of 10,000 items correctly - an impossible rate to achieve- and all anyone would want to talk about is the one item i got wrong, and what an idiot i must be for screwing up something so simple. Why would I want that?
I'm still waiting for any offers of BBCE wrapped product at wholesale/unwrapped prices!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Man some of you would have been right at home during Salem Witch Trials
Reed, I don't blame you. I'm a designer. When I get something wrong It's on display for the whole world to see and pick apart and trust me they do. It gets old after awhile. You grow thicker skin but you never quite get used to it. It sounds like you are doing what you want to do without the headache of being "naked" in the wind. There will always be mistakes and for sure there will always be people to pick those mistakes apart Ad nauseam. If you get 999 right and one wrong they will only dray on the one.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@UFFDAH said:
I will up Grote by 5%, throw in a bag of Wisconsin Cheese Curds, plus a 30 pack of beer and a Polaris Ranger ride with the tunes cranked.
What kind of beer?
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@UFFDAH said: @Justacommeman - we could go Pabst, Old Style, Hamm's....or something fancier like Leinenkugels or BLATZ....
In
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@UFFDAH said:
I will up Grote by 5%, throw in a bag of Wisconsin Cheese Curds, plus a 30 pack of beer and a Polaris Ranger ride with the tunes cranked.
@UFFDAH said: @Justacommeman - we could go Pabst, Old Style, Hamm's....or something fancier like Leinenkugels or BLATZ....
I used to drink Blatz back in the mid 80s~$5.40 for a 24 bottle case!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Right, wasn’t being critical of Reed. But if he thinks unopened authentication is very difficult to do, then maybe our trust in unopened authentication on high value items is misplaced.
@tulsaboy said:
Actually, I think it's a sign of great humility.
kevin
@80sOPC said:
If with all your experience you don’t feel you can consistently authenticate unopened, that is a huge tell.
there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
I know asking for nuance on an internet message board is about as useful as a third nut, but for the record I want it to be known that I am a BBCE fan. Steve has helped me expand my collection and I will always hold him in high regard.
That being said, this Pokémon case was a pretty big deal and I do think there are legit questions about how we move forward. Like i mentioned earlier, I am still debating whether it is worth it to wrap a 2018 football case. Before I had not doubt that the wrap would add value but I’m not sure it adds anything now.
The case wrap issue is unrelated to box wraps. The process for each is different, you can’t draw conclusions from one scenario and apply it to the other. The supposed flaws in the case process wouldn’t occur in a box wrap.
Humility is definitely not your strong suit and I can assure you I’m not jealous. I run a staff of 50 and a 200mm business, doing just fine.
Also, you misunderstood my comment. Which is on me, wasn’t as clear as I could be. I was simply saying with all your experience, if you feel you are not trained well enough to get paid for authentication, yet your Madden score is 1 point or 1% less then the next best guy, maybe there is a lot of margin for error overall? Hardly controversial.
Lots of other things in your response that are over the top but don’t want to derail the thread. And again, I don’t think my position - that this is an eye opening event that should be discussed- makes me a horrible person. But you do you Reed, watched you blow up on forums for years.
there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
80sOPC, I suppose you're entitled to your dumbass opinion. I'm extremely confident in my abilities, and I think my reputation speaks for itself. Your tell is the jealousy you have for someone like me. You wish you knew what I know, seen what I've seen, or could do what I do for a living.
Kevin, thanks for your kind words, but humility is not my strong suit, no matter how hard I try to work at it. I get trolled for speaking my mind and I get trolled for trying to be humble; can't win either way.
I just don't see it being worthwhile to do it for a living. The amount of shit people give Steve is overwhelming, and that was before this latest incident. Some of you are horrible people given the things I've witnessed at BBCE. I could authenticate 9,999 out of 10,000 items correctly - an impossible rate to achieve- and all anyone would want to talk about is the one item i got wrong, and what an idiot i must be for screwing up something so simple. Why would I want that?
This is a strawman. Or maybe you can point me to the multiple posts claiming BBCE product is now only worth wholesale prices? Who are you even addressing?
@grote15 said:
I'm still waiting for any offers of BBCE wrapped product at wholesale/unwrapped prices!
@ndleo - I don't really think you need to wrap that 2018. Really haven't seen any that I can think of that modern that are wrapped. Unless you are concerned about the case seals coming loose or something like that.
I have a 98 Football case and a 97 Basketball case coming up for auction and I kept as is and not wrapped.
@UFFDAH said: @ndleo - I don't really think you need to wrap that 2018. Really haven't seen any that I can think of that modern that are wrapped. Unless you are concerned about the case seals coming loose or something like that.
I have a 98 Football case and a 97 Basketball case coming up for auction and I kept as is and not wrapped.
Thanks UFFDAH. The case is from Blowout Cards directly so I’m not worried about the provenance. I was only considering it to make the bidders feel more confident in the case.
there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
good point. I hadnt thought of that. I dont know about other unopened "authenticators" but at least according to Steve it sure sounds like he relies at least partly on some sort of "sense" or "feeling" when authenticating packs.
I, for one, do not get a very confident "feeling" if the person I am relying on (and paying) to "authenticate" my unopened product is relying in part to some sort of spidey sense to make his determination.
here is an excerpt from an interview steve gave discussing unopened product:
'Steve says that sometimes when he looks at a pack, there is a general sense that something is wrong. “Pay attention to anything that sends up a red flare.” But, he says, you should not be afraid to walk away when you get a bad feeling about a pack.'
the more the onion gets peeled back on this whole process, the less confident i am feeling...
maybe you have already said this but I don't want to waste my time scouring threads , do you collect unopened?
if you collect vintage unopened you would know that evaluating a pack is a judgement call. factories did not care or think the stuff was going to be worth the money it is today and therefore there are a million inconsistencies. anyone who collects this stuff seriously has had packs they need to make judgement calls on. the difference between Steve and the rest is that his "sense" or "feeling" is based on way more experience than any of us!
I certainly would expect, if I were paying 5k or more for a box/case/pack to be "authenticated" there would be a system based on empirical evidence used to evaluate. Not someones "feelings" or "sense" regardless of how many 10s of thousands of items that person has seen. if there is no system, there can be no consistency. without consistency, we are left with "feelings" we can see how far steves "feelings" got him on the pokemon case. for an item of that value and rarity, he clearly needs a better system in place. Had he done a modicum of research into the provenance of the case, perhaps his "spidey sense" would have started tingling.
there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
good point. I hadnt thought of that. I dont know about other unopened "authenticators" but at least according to Steve it sure sounds like he relies at least partly on some sort of "sense" or "feeling" when authenticating packs.
I, for one, do not get a very confident "feeling" if the person I am relying on (and paying) to "authenticate" my unopened product is relying in part to some sort of spidey sense to make his determination.
here is an excerpt from an interview steve gave discussing unopened product:
'Steve says that sometimes when he looks at a pack, there is a general sense that something is wrong. “Pay attention to anything that sends up a red flare.” But, he says, you should not be afraid to walk away when you get a bad feeling about a pack.'
the more the onion gets peeled back on this whole process, the less confident i am feeling...
maybe you have already said this but I don't want to waste my time scouring threads , do you collect unopened?
if you collect vintage unopened you would know that evaluating a pack is a judgement call. factories did not care or think the stuff was going to be worth the money it is today and therefore there are a million inconsistencies. anyone who collects this stuff seriously has had packs they need to make judgement calls on. the difference between Steve and the rest is that his "sense" or "feeling" is based on way more experience than any of us!
I certainly would expect, if I were paying 5k or more for a box/case/pack to be "authenticated" there would be a system based on empirical evidence used to evaluate. Not someones "feelings" or "sense" regardless of how many 10s of thousands of items that person has seen. if there is no system, there can be no consistency. without consistency, we are left with "feelings" we can see how far steves "feelings" got him on the pokemon case. for an item of that value and rarity, he clearly needs a better system in place. Had he done a modicum of research into the provenance of the case, perhaps his "spidey sense" would have started tingling.
You didn’t answer my question……..
And for some reason you think everything is spider sense, grow up and be reasonable. And if you don’t collect the stuff then stop commenting since you have ZERO value to add which clearly seems to be the case
@UFFDAH said:
I will up Grote by 5%, throw in a bag of Wisconsin Cheese Curds, plus a 30 pack of beer and a Polaris Ranger ride with the tunes cranked.
I think the curds bump it by at least 15%. Living in the great state (as you must) the fresh soft squeaky ones are to die for. Off for some Nasonville curds now….
there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
good point. I hadnt thought of that. I dont know about other unopened "authenticators" but at least according to Steve it sure sounds like he relies at least partly on some sort of "sense" or "feeling" when authenticating packs.
I, for one, do not get a very confident "feeling" if the person I am relying on (and paying) to "authenticate" my unopened product is relying in part to some sort of spidey sense to make his determination.
here is an excerpt from an interview steve gave discussing unopened product:
'Steve says that sometimes when he looks at a pack, there is a general sense that something is wrong. “Pay attention to anything that sends up a red flare.” But, he says, you should not be afraid to walk away when you get a bad feeling about a pack.'
the more the onion gets peeled back on this whole process, the less confident i am feeling...
maybe you have already said this but I don't want to waste my time scouring threads , do you collect unopened?
if you collect vintage unopened you would know that evaluating a pack is a judgement call. factories did not care or think the stuff was going to be worth the money it is today and therefore there are a million inconsistencies. anyone who collects this stuff seriously has had packs they need to make judgement calls on. the difference between Steve and the rest is that his "sense" or "feeling" is based on way more experience than any of us!
I certainly would expect, if I were paying 5k or more for a box/case/pack to be "authenticated" there would be a system based on empirical evidence used to evaluate. Not someones "feelings" or "sense" regardless of how many 10s of thousands of items that person has seen. if there is no system, there can be no consistency. without consistency, we are left with "feelings" we can see how far steves "feelings" got him on the pokemon case. for an item of that value and rarity, he clearly needs a better system in place. Had he done a modicum of research into the provenance of the case, perhaps his "spidey sense" would have started tingling.
You didn’t answer my question……..
And for some reason you think everything is spider sense, grow up and be reasonable. And if you don’t collect the stuff then stop commenting since you have ZERO value to add which clearly seems to be the case
there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
good point. I hadnt thought of that. I dont know about other unopened "authenticators" but at least according to Steve it sure sounds like he relies at least partly on some sort of "sense" or "feeling" when authenticating packs.
I, for one, do not get a very confident "feeling" if the person I am relying on (and paying) to "authenticate" my unopened product is relying in part to some sort of spidey sense to make his determination.
here is an excerpt from an interview steve gave discussing unopened product:
'Steve says that sometimes when he looks at a pack, there is a general sense that something is wrong. “Pay attention to anything that sends up a red flare.” But, he says, you should not be afraid to walk away when you get a bad feeling about a pack.'
the more the onion gets peeled back on this whole process, the less confident i am feeling...
maybe you have already said this but I don't want to waste my time scouring threads , do you collect unopened?
if you collect vintage unopened you would know that evaluating a pack is a judgement call. factories did not care or think the stuff was going to be worth the money it is today and therefore there are a million inconsistencies. anyone who collects this stuff seriously has had packs they need to make judgement calls on. the difference between Steve and the rest is that his "sense" or "feeling" is based on way more experience than any of us!
I certainly would expect, if I were paying 5k or more for a box/case/pack to be "authenticated" there would be a system based on empirical evidence used to evaluate. Not someones "feelings" or "sense" regardless of how many 10s of thousands of items that person has seen. if there is no system, there can be no consistency. without consistency, we are left with "feelings" we can see how far steves "feelings" got him on the pokemon case. for an item of that value and rarity, he clearly needs a better system in place. Had he done a modicum of research into the provenance of the case, perhaps his "spidey sense" would have started tingling.
You didn’t answer my question……..
And for some reason you think everything is spider sense, grow up and be reasonable. And if you don’t collect the stuff then stop commenting since you have ZERO value to add which clearly seems to be the case
I never said everything is spidey sense. you did.
that, my friend, is a straw man argument.
well my friend , I don't really care what type of argument it is since I am not arguing. I am simple asking you if you collect unopened or not which you refuse to an answer ....... which if you don't then stop commenting on things you have no basis or knowledge or interest in. ......... and if you do like steve's feelings system then sell me all your stuff at wholesale
there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
good point. I hadnt thought of that. I dont know about other unopened "authenticators" but at least according to Steve it sure sounds like he relies at least partly on some sort of "sense" or "feeling" when authenticating packs.
I, for one, do not get a very confident "feeling" if the person I am relying on (and paying) to "authenticate" my unopened product is relying in part to some sort of spidey sense to make his determination.
here is an excerpt from an interview steve gave discussing unopened product:
'Steve says that sometimes when he looks at a pack, there is a general sense that something is wrong. “Pay attention to anything that sends up a red flare.” But, he says, you should not be afraid to walk away when you get a bad feeling about a pack.'
the more the onion gets peeled back on this whole process, the less confident i am feeling...
maybe you have already said this but I don't want to waste my time scouring threads , do you collect unopened?
if you collect vintage unopened you would know that evaluating a pack is a judgement call. factories did not care or think the stuff was going to be worth the money it is today and therefore there are a million inconsistencies. anyone who collects this stuff seriously has had packs they need to make judgement calls on. the difference between Steve and the rest is that his "sense" or "feeling" is based on way more experience than any of us!
I certainly would expect, if I were paying 5k or more for a box/case/pack to be "authenticated" there would be a system based on empirical evidence used to evaluate. Not someones "feelings" or "sense" regardless of how many 10s of thousands of items that person has seen. if there is no system, there can be no consistency. without consistency, we are left with "feelings" we can see how far steves "feelings" got him on the pokemon case. for an item of that value and rarity, he clearly needs a better system in place. Had he done a modicum of research into the provenance of the case, perhaps his "spidey sense" would have started tingling.
You didn’t answer my question……..
And for some reason you think everything is spider sense, grow up and be reasonable. And if you don’t collect the stuff then stop commenting since you have ZERO value to add which clearly seems to be the case
do you think that looking at the tape which sealed a box, the shipping label on the box and a very strong "feeling" that the case is good is strict enough scrutiny when someone has paid you 5k to "authenticate" a then 2.7MM case?
for me, that is not even close.
does it for just a second make you second guess the process if guys sitting on a couch looking at images on a computer screen knew for certain that the case was bad, when someone who actually had the case in hand did not?
@rcmb3220 said:
Still no flood of BBCE product showing up in BST or on eBay
Of course not.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
good point. I hadnt thought of that. I dont know about other unopened "authenticators" but at least according to Steve it sure sounds like he relies at least partly on some sort of "sense" or "feeling" when authenticating packs.
I, for one, do not get a very confident "feeling" if the person I am relying on (and paying) to "authenticate" my unopened product is relying in part to some sort of spidey sense to make his determination.
here is an excerpt from an interview steve gave discussing unopened product:
'Steve says that sometimes when he looks at a pack, there is a general sense that something is wrong. “Pay attention to anything that sends up a red flare.” But, he says, you should not be afraid to walk away when you get a bad feeling about a pack.'
the more the onion gets peeled back on this whole process, the less confident i am feeling...
maybe you have already said this but I don't want to waste my time scouring threads , do you collect unopened?
if you collect vintage unopened you would know that evaluating a pack is a judgement call. factories did not care or think the stuff was going to be worth the money it is today and therefore there are a million inconsistencies. anyone who collects this stuff seriously has had packs they need to make judgement calls on. the difference between Steve and the rest is that his "sense" or "feeling" is based on way more experience than any of us!
I certainly would expect, if I were paying 5k or more for a box/case/pack to be "authenticated" there would be a system based on empirical evidence used to evaluate. Not someones "feelings" or "sense" regardless of how many 10s of thousands of items that person has seen. if there is no system, there can be no consistency. without consistency, we are left with "feelings" we can see how far steves "feelings" got him on the pokemon case. for an item of that value and rarity, he clearly needs a better system in place. Had he done a modicum of research into the provenance of the case, perhaps his "spidey sense" would have started tingling.
You didn’t answer my question……..
And for some reason you think everything is spider sense, grow up and be reasonable. And if you don’t collect the stuff then stop commenting since you have ZERO value to add which clearly seems to be the case
do you think that looking at the tape which sealed a box, the shipping label on the box and a very strong "feeling" that the case is good is strict enough scrutiny when someone has paid you 5k to "authenticate" a then 2.7MM case?
for me, that is not even close.
does it for just a second make you second guess the process if guys sitting on a couch looking at images on a computer screen knew for certain that the case was bad, when someone who actually had the case in hand did not?
again, you still don't answer the question but I guess that is what chat board rats do.
steve made a bad judgement call to authenticate the case. does that make box , pack case he has authenticated come into question. not for me . sell me your bbce boxes and cases at wholesale since you have no faith in the product, wait you don't have any so stop wasting my time
there are other people in the unopened market that are at the same level of expertise as Steve. I would think Reed is just as qualified.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but without some serious training, im not qualified. I obviously don't know everyone who collects or deals in unopened, but if Steve has a Madden score of 99, BBCE employee Rick and I might have the next highest scores at 97 or 98, if for any reason that we've seen more unopened than just about anyone else, and we've both been doing this for a couple decades.
That 1 or 2 point gap is the reason why I will never authenticate unopened for money. My ego can't handle getting something wrong or making a mistake. I'm extremely happy doing what I do best, buying collections. I guess I can't say never, but I don't think the money would be worth it, and I'm not ready to be the hobby's punching bag.
good point. I hadnt thought of that. I dont know about other unopened "authenticators" but at least according to Steve it sure sounds like he relies at least partly on some sort of "sense" or "feeling" when authenticating packs.
I, for one, do not get a very confident "feeling" if the person I am relying on (and paying) to "authenticate" my unopened product is relying in part to some sort of spidey sense to make his determination.
here is an excerpt from an interview steve gave discussing unopened product:
'Steve says that sometimes when he looks at a pack, there is a general sense that something is wrong. “Pay attention to anything that sends up a red flare.” But, he says, you should not be afraid to walk away when you get a bad feeling about a pack.'
the more the onion gets peeled back on this whole process, the less confident i am feeling...
maybe you have already said this but I don't want to waste my time scouring threads , do you collect unopened?
if you collect vintage unopened you would know that evaluating a pack is a judgement call. factories did not care or think the stuff was going to be worth the money it is today and therefore there are a million inconsistencies. anyone who collects this stuff seriously has had packs they need to make judgement calls on. the difference between Steve and the rest is that his "sense" or "feeling" is based on way more experience than any of us!
I certainly would expect, if I were paying 5k or more for a box/case/pack to be "authenticated" there would be a system based on empirical evidence used to evaluate. Not someones "feelings" or "sense" regardless of how many 10s of thousands of items that person has seen. if there is no system, there can be no consistency. without consistency, we are left with "feelings" we can see how far steves "feelings" got him on the pokemon case. for an item of that value and rarity, he clearly needs a better system in place. Had he done a modicum of research into the provenance of the case, perhaps his "spidey sense" would have started tingling.
You didn’t answer my question……..
And for some reason you think everything is spider sense, grow up and be reasonable. And if you don’t collect the stuff then stop commenting since you have ZERO value to add which clearly seems to be the case
do you think that looking at the tape which sealed a box, the shipping label on the box and a very strong "feeling" that the case is good is strict enough scrutiny when someone has paid you 5k to "authenticate" a then 2.7MM case?
for me, that is not even close.
does it for just a second make you second guess the process if guys sitting on a couch looking at images on a computer screen knew for certain that the case was bad, when someone who actually had the case in hand did not?
again, you still don't answer the question but I guess that is what chat board rats do.
steve made a bad judgement call to authenticate the case. does that make box , pack case he has authenticated come into question. not for me . sell me your bbce boxes and cases at wholesale since you have no faith in the product, wait you don't have any so stop wasting my time
I did answer your question. then I invalidated your premise.
pro tip... it is a bad look when you resort to calling names. it is what people usually start doing when they see they are losing a discussion.
Still no flood of BBCE product showing up in BST or on eBay
Of course not. Any residual effect of this debacle will take months to hit the market. But there will definitely be a long term decline in the value of their "guaranteed" unopened material.
Still no flood of BBCE product showing up in BST or on eBay
Of course not. Any residual effect of this debacle will take months to hit the market. But there will definitely be a long term decline in the value of their "guaranteed" unopened material.
looking forward to all of the bargains at the declining prices. jerseyfive speculated that unopened was doomed because gai went down the crapper and was grading resealed packs. he sold his incredible collection. a few years later the math shows he left a minimum of a few million on the table
Steve is the best as what he does - Reed is right with him - but the work they do is not precise science and for vintage, it never will be. Same with grading, and other authentication.
I am sure as a man of integrity and business acumen, he will do ALL he can to avoid this ever occurring again on his watch.
Imagine the hobby chaos and fraud if there never was a BBCE.
Some of you need to relax and give Steve a chance.
Still no flood of BBCE product showing up in BST or on eBay
Of course not. Any residual effect of this debacle will take months to hit the market. But there will definitely be a long term decline in the value of their "guaranteed" unopened material.
That’s going to be so great. I can’t wait for 1983 TBB boxes to be $275 again.
Steve is the best as what he does - Reed is right with him - but the work they do is not precise science and for vintage, it never will be. Same with grading, and other authentication.
I am sure as a man of integrity and business acumen, he will do ALL he can to avoid this ever occurring again on his watch.
Imagine the hobby chaos and fraud if there never was a BBCE.
Some of you need to relax and give Steve a chance.
could not have been said better. If any of the haters had ever been burned buying bad packs/boxes etc they may have a different tone. is steve perfect no, damn close , yes. all these guys ripping steve would probably lose their shirts buying on their own getting stuck with bad product but hey, what are chat boards for ............
@NGS428 - warm the curds up just a titch in the microwave to a little "melty state" and sprinkle on some onion salt and/or garlic salt. Eat immediately. It's the BOMB!!!
We have two camps posting here. Steve's buddies defending him to the death and the people who don't know him personally and are giving their unbiased opinion of this major screw up.
@UFFDAH said: @NGS428 - warm the curds up just a titch in the microwave to a little "melty state" and sprinkle on some onion salt and/or garlic salt. Eat immediately. It's the BOMB!!!
I do heat them up, but only if they are next day (you know what I mean).
Onion/garlic salt, nice pro tip, will have to try. Curds are typically without garnish when they are consumed. Thanks!
@MisterTim1962 said:
We have two camps posting here. Steve's buddies defending him to the death and the people who don't know him personally and are giving their unbiased opinion of this major screw up.
I don't know if I would call camp 1 Steve's buddies. Do many of us know Steve , sure.
I would call Camp 1
1)the collectors who have been collecting unopened for a very long time and know what it is like when there is no authentication and know what a valuable service Steve provides.
2) also acknowledges what a major screw up this is .
3) also tends to not agree with authenticating a case without looking at the contents which due to the major screw up will no longer happen going forward.
4) also willing to put their money where their mouth is and buy up any unopened that the other camps want to dump
I've never eaten a curd mainly because of the name. Just sounds wrong. Do they go by any other name so I can give them a try?
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@MisterTim1962 said:
We have two camps posting here. Steve's buddies defending him to the death and the people who don't know him personally and are giving their unbiased opinion of this major screw up.
Nah.
I don't know Steve. Only know of him by reputation and I've bought a fair amount from him indirectly and directly.
1) a lot of the guys who have done business with him in this thread I've also done business with. They are all guys I can set a watch to. Stand up guys. I expect them to defend Steve.
2) there are people giving there unbiased opinions on both sides of the ledger.
3) there are haters giving their biased opinions
4) there are many "Richards" doing their best to further stir the pot with Steve in it.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Still no flood of BBCE product showing up in BST or on eBay
Of course not. Any residual effect of this debacle will take months to hit the market. But there will definitely be a long term decline in the value of their "guaranteed" unopened material.
looking forward to all of the bargains at the declining prices. jerseyfive speculated that unopened was doomed because gai went down the crapper and was grading resealed packs. he sold his incredible collection. a few years later the math shows he left a minimum of a few million on the table
I remember that well...won a few lots of his in that epic Mile High Auction.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Comments
good point. I hadnt thought of that. I dont know about other unopened "authenticators" but at least according to Steve it sure sounds like he relies at least partly on some sort of "sense" or "feeling" when authenticating packs.
I, for one, do not get a very confident "feeling" if the person I am relying on (and paying) to "authenticate" my unopened product is relying in part to some sort of spidey sense to make his determination.
here is an excerpt from an interview steve gave discussing unopened product:
'Steve says that sometimes when he looks at a pack, there is a general sense that something is wrong. “Pay attention to anything that sends up a red flare.” But, he says, you should not be afraid to walk away when you get a bad feeling about a pack.'
the more the onion gets peeled back on this whole process, the less confident i am feeling...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
maybe you have already said this but I don't want to waste my time scouring threads , do you collect unopened?
if you collect vintage unopened you would know that evaluating a pack is a judgement call. factories did not care or think the stuff was going to be worth the money it is today and therefore there are a million inconsistencies. anyone who collects this stuff seriously has had packs they need to make judgement calls on. the difference between Steve and the rest is that his "sense" or "feeling" is based on way more experience than any of us!
80sOPC, I suppose you're entitled to your dumbass opinion. I'm extremely confident in my abilities, and I think my reputation speaks for itself. Your tell is the jealousy you have for someone like me. You wish you knew what I know, seen what I've seen, or could do what I do for a living.
Kevin, thanks for your kind words, but humility is not my strong suit, no matter how hard I try to work at it. I get trolled for speaking my mind and I get trolled for trying to be humble; can't win either way.
I just don't see it being worthwhile to do it for a living. The amount of shit people give Steve is overwhelming, and that was before this latest incident. Some of you are horrible people given the things I've witnessed at BBCE. I could authenticate 9,999 out of 10,000 items correctly - an impossible rate to achieve- and all anyone would want to talk about is the one item i got wrong, and what an idiot i must be for screwing up something so simple. Why would I want that?
I'm still waiting for any offers of BBCE wrapped product at wholesale/unwrapped prices!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I will up Grote by 5%, throw in a bag of Wisconsin Cheese Curds, plus a 30 pack of beer and a Polaris Ranger ride with the tunes cranked.
Man some of you would have been right at home during Salem Witch Trials
Reed, I don't blame you. I'm a designer. When I get something wrong It's on display for the whole world to see and pick apart and trust me they do. It gets old after awhile. You grow thicker skin but you never quite get used to it. It sounds like you are doing what you want to do without the headache of being "naked" in the wind. There will always be mistakes and for sure there will always be people to pick those mistakes apart Ad nauseam. If you get 999 right and one wrong they will only dray on the one.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
What kind of beer?
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman - we could go Pabst, Old Style, Hamm's....or something fancier like Leinenkugels or BLATZ....
In
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
SDKFLJLS> @Justacommeman said:
Likely Spotted Cow
I used to drink Blatz back in the mid 80s~$5.40 for a 24 bottle case!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Right, wasn’t being critical of Reed. But if he thinks unopened authentication is very difficult to do, then maybe our trust in unopened authentication on high value items is misplaced.
I haven't checked since I know nothing about, but I would have to think BBCE wrapped Pokemon boxes can't be flying off the shelves.
Reed,
If you wouldn’t mind, change a couple of those above words to “poptart,” I’m sure most all would agree, love having your perspective around here.
Thank you.
I know asking for nuance on an internet message board is about as useful as a third nut, but for the record I want it to be known that I am a BBCE fan. Steve has helped me expand my collection and I will always hold him in high regard.
That being said, this Pokémon case was a pretty big deal and I do think there are legit questions about how we move forward. Like i mentioned earlier, I am still debating whether it is worth it to wrap a 2018 football case. Before I had not doubt that the wrap would add value but I’m not sure it adds anything now.
The case wrap issue is unrelated to box wraps. The process for each is different, you can’t draw conclusions from one scenario and apply it to the other. The supposed flaws in the case process wouldn’t occur in a box wrap.
Humility is definitely not your strong suit and I can assure you I’m not jealous. I run a staff of 50 and a 200mm business, doing just fine.
Also, you misunderstood my comment. Which is on me, wasn’t as clear as I could be. I was simply saying with all your experience, if you feel you are not trained well enough to get paid for authentication, yet your Madden score is 1 point or 1% less then the next best guy, maybe there is a lot of margin for error overall? Hardly controversial.
Lots of other things in your response that are over the top but don’t want to derail the thread. And again, I don’t think my position - that this is an eye opening event that should be discussed- makes me a horrible person. But you do you Reed, watched you blow up on forums for years.
This is a strawman. Or maybe you can point me to the multiple posts claiming BBCE product is now only worth wholesale prices? Who are you even addressing?
@ndleo - I don't really think you need to wrap that 2018. Really haven't seen any that I can think of that modern that are wrapped. Unless you are concerned about the case seals coming loose or something like that.
I have a 98 Football case and a 97 Basketball case coming up for auction and I kept as is and not wrapped.
Thanks UFFDAH. The case is from Blowout Cards directly so I’m not worried about the provenance. I was only considering it to make the bidders feel more confident in the case.
I certainly would expect, if I were paying 5k or more for a box/case/pack to be "authenticated" there would be a system based on empirical evidence used to evaluate. Not someones "feelings" or "sense" regardless of how many 10s of thousands of items that person has seen. if there is no system, there can be no consistency. without consistency, we are left with "feelings" we can see how far steves "feelings" got him on the pokemon case. for an item of that value and rarity, he clearly needs a better system in place. Had he done a modicum of research into the provenance of the case, perhaps his "spidey sense" would have started tingling.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
You didn’t answer my question……..
And for some reason you think everything is spider sense, grow up and be reasonable. And if you don’t collect the stuff then stop commenting since you have ZERO value to add which clearly seems to be the case
Still no flood of BBCE product showing up in BST or on eBay
I think the curds bump it by at least 15%. Living in the great state (as you must) the fresh soft squeaky ones are to die for. Off for some Nasonville curds now….
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
I never said everything is spidey sense. you did.
that, my friend, is a straw man argument.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
well my friend , I don't really care what type of argument it is since I am not arguing. I am simple asking you if you collect unopened or not which you refuse to an answer ....... which if you don't then stop commenting on things you have no basis or knowledge or interest in. ......... and if you do like steve's feelings system then sell me all your stuff at wholesale
do you think that looking at the tape which sealed a box, the shipping label on the box and a very strong "feeling" that the case is good is strict enough scrutiny when someone has paid you 5k to "authenticate" a then 2.7MM case?
for me, that is not even close.
does it for just a second make you second guess the process if guys sitting on a couch looking at images on a computer screen knew for certain that the case was bad, when someone who actually had the case in hand did not?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Of course not.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
it is immaterial if I collect unopened or do not. (I do)
I bet you (and everyone else) intelligently comment on things you don't personally participate in very frequently.
Bill James is an authority on baseball, its history and statistics. He never played MLB. does that invalidate his opinions?
of course not.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
again, you still don't answer the question but I guess that is what chat board rats do.
steve made a bad judgement call to authenticate the case. does that make box , pack case he has authenticated come into question. not for me . sell me your bbce boxes and cases at wholesale since you have no faith in the product, wait you don't have any so stop wasting my time
I did answer your question. then I invalidated your premise.
pro tip... it is a bad look when you resort to calling names. it is what people usually start doing when they see they are losing a discussion.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Of course not. Any residual effect of this debacle will take months to hit the market. But there will definitely be a long term decline in the value of their "guaranteed" unopened material.
looking forward to all of the bargains at the declining prices. jerseyfive speculated that unopened was doomed because gai went down the crapper and was grading resealed packs. he sold his incredible collection. a few years later the math shows he left a minimum of a few million on the table
Can a few if you please grow up.
Steve is the best as what he does - Reed is right with him - but the work they do is not precise science and for vintage, it never will be. Same with grading, and other authentication.
I am sure as a man of integrity and business acumen, he will do ALL he can to avoid this ever occurring again on his watch.
Imagine the hobby chaos and fraud if there never was a BBCE.
Some of you need to relax and give Steve a chance.
That’s going to be so great. I can’t wait for 1983 TBB boxes to be $275 again.
could not have been said better. If any of the haters had ever been burned buying bad packs/boxes etc they may have a different tone. is steve perfect no, damn close , yes. all these guys ripping steve would probably lose their shirts buying on their own getting stuck with bad product but hey, what are chat boards for ............
@NGS428 - warm the curds up just a titch in the microwave to a little "melty state" and sprinkle on some onion salt and/or garlic salt. Eat immediately. It's the BOMB!!!
Here's one (sealed case) that says "The Only One Left in Existence." Any takers? https://www.ebay.com/itm/393800923913
Gretzky,Ripken, and Sandberg collection. Still trying to complete 1975 Topps baseball set from when I was a kid.
We have two camps posting here. Steve's buddies defending him to the death and the people who don't know him personally and are giving their unbiased opinion of this major screw up.
I do heat them up, but only if they are next day (you know what I mean).
Onion/garlic salt, nice pro tip, will have to try. Curds are typically without garnish when they are consumed. Thanks!
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
I don't know if I would call camp 1 Steve's buddies. Do many of us know Steve , sure.
I would call Camp 1
1)the collectors who have been collecting unopened for a very long time and know what it is like when there is no authentication and know what a valuable service Steve provides.
2) also acknowledges what a major screw up this is .
3) also tends to not agree with authenticating a case without looking at the contents which due to the major screw up will no longer happen going forward.
4) also willing to put their money where their mouth is and buy up any unopened that the other camps want to dump
cheers
I've never eaten a curd mainly because of the name. Just sounds wrong. Do they go by any other name so I can give them a try?
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Forget it
Squeaky Cheese.. Just give it a try.
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
@Justacommeman - AKA: "Delicious chunks of fresh squeaky cheese that make you want to eat the whole bag and not share".
Nah.
I don't know Steve. Only know of him by reputation and I've bought a fair amount from him indirectly and directly.
1) a lot of the guys who have done business with him in this thread I've also done business with. They are all guys I can set a watch to. Stand up guys. I expect them to defend Steve.
2) there are people giving there unbiased opinions on both sides of the ledger.
3) there are haters giving their biased opinions
4) there are many "Richards" doing their best to further stir the pot with Steve in it.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I remember that well...won a few lots of his in that epic Mile High Auction.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Poutine minus the fries and gravy