@Farmer1961 said:
Over the years I have seen numerous coins slabbed as problem free that have been dipped one or more times. The coins usually have an ugly washed out look which IMHO should place them in a cleaned/details holder. Any thoughts on why some coins are slabbed with these problems?
I don't know the exact "Conservation" process but...could some of these coins have actually been professional conserved meaning the service the TPG's offer at an additional charge vs. being carefully dipped by a individual/collector/dealer?
I have seen some straight graded silver coins that look incredible yet make me question whether original or "treated".
Dipping doesn’t destroy the fragile flow lines made from the strike which briefly liquifies the planchette - even a Q Tip will damage the surface but dipping with acetone or other benign solution cannot be detected
@Maywood said: @winesteven said: While not “visibly” touching the coin surface, many of us use Intercept Shield technology to offer protection for our coins. Presumably their chemical molecules are touching and protecting our coin surfaces!
IS Technology is based on a "sacrificial" barrier between the coin and the atmosphere outside of the container. Unless you place a coin directly on the black material it will never come in contact with anything.
What evidence is there that "Intercept Shield" actually provides any degree of protection?
I can show coins stored that way that are BLAST WHITE and other coins that have developed problems.
Just because a coin is toned does not mean it has not been dipped. Coins can and have toned after dipping. Also can flash dip a toned coin and not remove much of the toning. Example it might have some light haze or stuff in the center and nice rim toning. A quick dip can remove much the light haze or stuff and leave much of the rim toning (yes the quick dip will remove some of the rim toning but leave most of it).
@GRANDAM
Something IS will not do is prevent a coin in a holder from turning due to the 'stuff' that is on the coin when it was slabbed. I don't know the actual effectiveness of IS either but I do have some anyway.
@silverbul said:
i think acetone does not damage the PAINT as much as scrubbing with a brush with clorox. jmo.
I think acetone, i.e. nail polish remover, does remove/damage paint. I recently took a few coins out of an acetone dip ouside, and thought they air dried. Because 1 coin sat on another, when I brought indoors and placed on my desk to put back in the album, the 1 drop ate right through the paint on my desk.
mfield said
In a great many cases, it’s guesswork as to whether a coin has been dipped. If you’d like the grading companies to make note of it on the grading label, how sure would you want them to be that the coin had been dipped? 100%? 95%? 90%? Other?
I would like them to use the same degree of certainty that they use when grading coins and I would only want it mentioned or detail when they feel it has been dipped, just like they do with cleanings. No not guess work Mark just real examination like they do now but mention obvious dip or cleaning and yes many times they know when a coin has been dipped with the same certainty they see cleanings and when they can't say that with certainty then they don't .
mfield said
In a great many cases, it’s guesswork as to whether a coin has been dipped. If you’d like the grading companies to make note of it on the grading label, how sure would you want them to be that the coin had been dipped? 100%? 95%? 90%? Other?
I would like them to use the same degree of certainty that they use when grading coins and I would only want it mentioned or detail when they feel it has been dipped, just like they do with cleanings. No not guess work Mark just real examination like they do now but mention obvious dip or cleaning and yes many times they know when a coin has been dipped with the same certainty they see cleanings and when they can't say that with certainty then they don't .
Your proposed standard for designating dipped coins would probably result in a relatively small percentage of coins receiving the designation. And the percentage of uncirculated and Proof examples, in particular, would be especially small.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It's near to next to impossible to prevent a coin from tarnishing. But a coin is judged as to how much damage has occurred before an attempt at cleaning is made. (only if this was true and followed) And it takes a trained eye to access that. Depending on the environment a coin gets subjected to during any length of time.....the level of tarnishing varies from extremely light to severe.....but it's usually based on how much of the original mint luster is remaining in the decision whether another bath is warranted. If the coin is too far gone it's best to just leave it alone.
But I also think coins get unnecessarily cleaned and graded because of the larger pool of collectors can be fooled into thinking........(yeah, I won't finish that one)
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
@GRANDAM said: What evidence is there that "Intercept Shield" actually provides any degree of protection? I can show coins stored that way that are BLAST WHITE and other coins that have developed problems. WHY the different results?
The IS Technology is designed to protect whatever it surrounds but it won't do anything to protect a coin which has contaminants on the surface and is placed inside of the protection.
@PerryHall said:
Why do grading companies slab coins with environmental damage in the form of tarnish?
I'm joking of course but my question makes as much sense as the OP's question. In the final analysis, if a coin is over-dipped to the point that the surfaces are dull and lifeless or if a coin is tarnished black to the point that it's terminal, the grading services will give it a details grade. The grading services pretty much conform to what's market acceptable.
Do the grading services pretty much conform to what’s market acceptable, or do hobbyists pretty much conform to what the grading services deem to be market acceptable? Actually, I think I’ll start a new thread, asking that question.
If a SLQ is grade adjusted to MS 64 from a possible MS 66 by PCGS because of very slight high point friction on the knee and is not market acceptable to CAC with the knee friction whose market acceptance matters more or is more important to the collectors CAC or PCGS?
Do the grading services pretty much conform to what’s market acceptable, or do hobbyists pretty much conform to what the grading services deem to be market acceptable? Actually, I think I’ll start a new thread, asking that question.
I agree 100% with this. Coins that have been Detail graded for cleaning or toning issues are often broken out and re-submitted. If they straight grade, their value can double or triple. Same coin. Now it's market acceptable.
Comments
White privilege
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I don't know the exact "Conservation" process but...could some of these coins have actually been professional conserved meaning the service the TPG's offer at an additional charge vs. being carefully dipped by a individual/collector/dealer?
I have seen some straight graded silver coins that look incredible yet make me question whether original or "treated".
Pocket Change Inspector
Dipping doesn’t destroy the fragile flow lines made from the strike which briefly liquifies the planchette - even a Q Tip will damage the surface but dipping with acetone or other benign solution cannot be detected
What evidence is there that "Intercept Shield" actually provides any degree of protection?
I can show coins stored that way that are BLAST WHITE and other coins that have developed problems.
WHY the different results?
That wouldn't be happening if the toned coin guys were paying top dollar for coins with less than attractive toning.
Just because a coin is toned does not mean it has not been dipped. Coins can and have toned after dipping. Also can flash dip a toned coin and not remove much of the toning. Example it might have some light haze or stuff in the center and nice rim toning. A quick dip can remove much the light haze or stuff and leave much of the rim toning (yes the quick dip will remove some of the rim toning but leave most of it).
@GRANDAM
Something IS will not do is prevent a coin in a holder from turning due to the 'stuff' that is on the coin when it was slabbed. I don't know the actual effectiveness of IS either but I do have some anyway.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
I think acetone, i.e. nail polish remover, does remove/damage paint. I recently took a few coins out of an acetone dip ouside, and thought they air dried. Because 1 coin sat on another, when I brought indoors and placed on my desk to put back in the album, the 1 drop ate right through the paint on my desk.
I would like them to use the same degree of certainty that they use when grading coins and I would only want it mentioned or detail when they feel it has been dipped, just like they do with cleanings. No not guess work Mark just real examination like they do now but mention obvious dip or cleaning and yes many times they know when a coin has been dipped with the same certainty they see cleanings and when they can't say that with certainty then they don't .
Your proposed standard for designating dipped coins would probably result in a relatively small percentage of coins receiving the designation. And the percentage of uncirculated and Proof examples, in particular, would be especially small.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You people have me mind Fu@k%d. just saying. Dipping in ACetOne Does NOT HArm The Coin In Any WAy. ( Silver )??????????? school me.
It's near to next to impossible to prevent a coin from tarnishing. But a coin is judged as to how much damage has occurred before an attempt at cleaning is made. (only if this was true and followed) And it takes a trained eye to access that. Depending on the environment a coin gets subjected to during any length of time.....the level of tarnishing varies from extremely light to severe.....but it's usually based on how much of the original mint luster is remaining in the decision whether another bath is warranted. If the coin is too far gone it's best to just leave it alone.
But I also think coins get unnecessarily cleaned and graded because of the larger pool of collectors can be fooled into thinking........(yeah, I won't finish that one)
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I don’t mind them slabbing dipped coins … but it does still bug me that they heavily conserve shipwreck coins and then straight grade them.
The IS Technology is designed to protect whatever it surrounds but it won't do anything to protect a coin which has contaminants on the surface and is placed inside of the protection.
If a SLQ is grade adjusted to MS 64 from a possible MS 66 by PCGS because of very slight high point friction on the knee and is not market acceptable to CAC with the knee friction whose market acceptance matters more or is more important to the collectors CAC or PCGS?
I agree 100% with this. Coins that have been Detail graded for cleaning or toning issues are often broken out and re-submitted. If they straight grade, their value can double or triple. Same coin. Now it's market acceptable.