1964 Kennedy Half SMS

jmlanzaf

Not an SMS. But, spend your money and send it in. Anything other than that is now simply trolling.

FredWeinberg

Not
Not
Not
Not
Not

……and not even close

lcutler

Let's see, the so called 1964 sms coins were special strikes from new dies, in your coins I see die cracks and chips from late die states on at least two of the coins, poor strikes on at least two, what's wrong with this picture?

Peaceman1

These coins were sent in for review. At this point, I believe the Lincoln is SMS, maybe the quarter, The half possibly from same dies with added polishing, Similar to the 1921 Vam 1H story. I recently checked a few other kennedy half dollars and at this point understand certain hidden markers are on these coins.
The special surfaces consist of tiny scribble with lots of tiny numbers all over the entire surfaces giving a pattern is a major part. Each is marked as well. Viewing each graded example images, in certain locations these marks differ so that each is unique in that respect. I will be posting images of this coin today.
Has anyone ever seen a 1964 D Satin Kennedy? I was looking at one I have that has the same exact pattern but it is a Denver. I will post images of this as well.
Thank You All..
Bob

JBK

@Peaceman1 said:
The special surfaces consist of tiny scribble with lots of tiny numbers all over the entire surfaces giving a pattern is a major part. Each is marked as well. Viewing each graded example images, in certain locations these marks differ so that each is unique in that respect.

MFeld

@Peaceman1 said:
These coins were sent in for review. At this point, I believe the Lincoln is SMS, maybe the quarter, The half possibly from same dies with added polishing, Similar to the 1921 Vam 1H story. I recently checked a few other kennedy half dollars and at this point understand certain hidden markers are on these coins.
The special surfaces consist of tiny scribble with lots of tiny numbers all over the entire surfaces giving a pattern is a major part. Each is marked as well. Viewing each graded example images, in certain locations these marks differ so that each is unique in that respect. I will be posting images of this coin today.
Has anyone ever seen a 1964 D Satin Kennedy? I was looking at one I have that has the same exact pattern but it is a Denver. I will post images of this as well.
Thank You All..
Bob

The graded examples don’t exhibit “tiny scribble with lots of tiny numbers all over the entire surfaces...”.

291fifth

Experts in the field have told you that you do not have SMS coins. You have ignored their advice and sent the coins in for grading and authentication. Prepare for an expensive disappointment/lesson.

MarkKelley

This horse is dead. STOP BEATING IT!

IkesT

Once again, you can't argue with a delusion.

Jzyskowski1

Guys, I really appreciate Emeraldtv and enjoy his posts. (Really!)
I ask , with the discovery of the tiny numbers ( I suspected all along a numerical conspiracy) who would you think should weigh in?
I have to begin the laborious task of checking my Kennedy’s !! for those little numbers. Just like em to hide em under “little bubbles “.
I’m glad that’s cleared up 🤨

Peaceman1

Enlarged, I see numbers, lots of what looks like 2's on either side and scribble like cursive writing in many locations. Enlarge Obverse, look at the B, Right side upper portion at the B traveling to the Right?
There are numbers I see. To some people this may look different but if you look there are many 2's on these coins....

Jzyskowski1

😳🙀

MFeld

@Peaceman1 said:
Enlarged, I see numbers, lots of what looks like 2's on either side and scribble like cursive writing in many locations. Enlarge Obverse, look at the B, Right side upper portion at the B traveling to the Right?
There are numbers I see. To some people this may look different but if you look there are many 2's on these coins....

You’re either seeing things that aren’t there or you’re not being serious.

lcutler

Oh boy, no one could possibly believe this, if you actually do then coins are not the hobby for you.

ifthevamzarockin

Peaceman1

I am quite serious and not seeing things.... Enlarge this image and look inside the loops of the B. You should see a 2 and some other scribbled letters.....
This is a close up of SMS finish that is on these coins....

ifthevamzarockin

"I am quite serious and not seeing things...."

golden

Oh boy!

Peaceman1

There are various areas on these such as between the 6 and 4 there is a faint slash like a diaginal scratch with numbers above and below like 2 above the slash and 21 below it... barely visible but there. Under the neck of coin I posted appears marked 27/55 visible under 10x loop. The U of trust is broken exactly where others have crack at bottom left.

MsMorrisine

Post the close ups of the numbers

In the first picture show just the close up
In the next picture use the same picture as the first but use red to draw over the numbers

MFeld

@MsMorrisine said:
Post the close ups of the numbers

In the first picture show just the close up
In the next picture use the same picture as the first but use red to draw over the numbers

There are no numbers to post.

ifthevamzarockin

You forgot to take the little 2x sticker off the lens of your new reading glasses.

Peaceman1

You have to enlarge the image and look closely... Really... Like coin I posted under graded, there is scribble writting on reverse between the D of United and S of states... That kind of thing is on all of these in various areas seen under loop, most are simply what looks like cursive writing but scribble polishing. That is what they did on all of these in this set and is known for it???? On the Lincoln is the same, Scribble polishing... ... Some you can see looking at and a few are more difficult..

MsMorrisine

If you want me to see these numbers you are going to have to post pics of them as I suggested since I have already enlarged the photos and see no numbers

I am awaiting your pics

Peaceman1

Moving on, the finish looks exactly like image i just posted. The pattern should be on both sides of coin with smooth letters, not grainy but pearl looking. The little mark under the 4 is from a tiny 2 on the die just under that crosslet. If it does not show the line or dot it looks like a 2 very, very, very tiny, the size of the mark.

Peaceman1

Inside of red circles, on left is numbers with a diagonal scratch numbers light scratch numbers under. Next to bottom of B top of hair numbers.....

MsMorrisine

Moving on

Show a close up of the very tiny 2 in the first pic and in the second pic show the 2 highlighted with red

MarkKelley

@MarkKelley said:
This horse is dead. STOP BEATING IT!

Still dead.

MsMorrisine

Nothing there to see.

ifthevamzarockin

What you are seeing is an optical delusion.

Peaceman1

There is scribble and numbers on all of these... Sometimes you have to stare or look closely but there..
They usually have a 2 and and 8 inside the loop of the B.

Peaceman1

Hopefully the scribble looks like numbers and writing to you as it does me... It is there.

MsMorrisine

Nothing there to see.

Usually? Not all sms have it? Well, no sms have it.

Nothing there to see on an sms either

Peaceman1

Perfect, More for me to find... lol

MasonG

It's all good. Until you start seeing dead people, that is.

ifthevamzarockin

If what you are seeing starts whispering to you @mr1874 might be able to help.

Jzyskowski1

This reminds me of “Horton hears a Who” only much more odd er er 😉

jesbroken

I see nothing and I feel what you see is Pareidolia. This is made more prevalent when you are trying to visualize something.
Jim

Steven59

MasonG

@Peaceman1 said:
You have to enlarge the image and look closely...

When you enlarge images, you are depending on an image manipulation program to introduce information where none currently exists. Example- the existing image is 500 pixels x 500 pixels and you want to double the size to 1000 x 1000. 500 x 500 = 250,000. 1000 x 1000 = 1,000,000. That's a difference of 750,000 pixels. Who knows what such a program is programmed to imagine should be in those 750,000 pixels that don't exist in the original image?

lcutler

You say the coins were sent in for review, does this mean they went to PCGS? Be sure to come back with the results, this is such a gray area, hopefully there is something for all of us to learn.

Peaceman1

Match.

MsMorrisine

Pogue’s specimen is fantastic

His stuff always had good eye appeal

robec

@Peaceman1 said:
Match.

Except yours has flow lines going north and south and the authentic SMS has polish lines going more east and west. Since all were struck with the same die they should have the same markings, especially considering how few were minted.

MFeld

@robec said:

@Peaceman1 said:
Match.

Except yours has flow lines going north and south and the authentic SMS has polish lines going more east and west. Since all were struck with the same die they should have the same markings, especially considering how few were minted.

Depending upon the audience, facts can be irrelevant.😉

jmlanzaf

@Peaceman1 said:
Enlarged, I see numbers, lots of what looks like 2's on either side and scribble like cursive writing in many locations. Enlarge Obverse, look at the B, Right side upper portion at the B traveling to the Right?
There are numbers I see. To some people this may look different but if you look there are many 2's on these coins....

That's my phone number. I scratched it on the coin hoping for a good time...

lcutler

@Peaceman1 said:
These coins were sent in for review. At this point, I believe the Lincoln is SMS, maybe the quarter, The half possibly from same dies with added polishing, Similar to the 1921 Vam 1H story. I recently checked a few other kennedy half dollars and at this point understand certain hidden markers are on these coins.
The special surfaces consist of tiny scribble with lots of tiny numbers all over the entire surfaces giving a pattern is a major part. Each is marked as well. Viewing each graded example images, in certain locations these marks differ so that each is unique in that respect. I will be posting images of this coin today.
Has anyone ever seen a 1964 D Satin Kennedy? I was looking at one I have that has the same exact pattern but it is a Denver. I will post images of this as well.
Thank You All..
Bob

OK, I'll try again, you said these coins were sent in for review, does this mean you sent them to PCGS?

MasonG

The arc of the bust where it slopes down to the field is isolated here. Does anyone think these coins match?

jmlanzaf

@MasonG said:
The arc of the bust where it slopes down to the field is isolated here. Does anyone think these coins

All I see are sixes on both coins.

Peaceman1

I had this coin on side because it looks so different than any others. The lettering is very smooth like polished sterling, not rough, die crack under the U and all other letters the same, the surfaces have the odd special finish pattern, it looks very satiny in hand yet the flow is what reserved me as well untill I noticed markings under the neck looking at across the coin at eye level that may just be more scribble but maybe not. There is one graded specimin that has like sterling looking "In God We Trust" Shiny.. This looks like that one. The fields are slightly coarse like sand papered.
I have noticed variations in appearance between graded ones. A few display that toned up fingerprint look, some do not, some look gray pearly, some look sparkly like a welding rod flat gray..
I was looking through my sets, I have a 1964-D with the special finish all over it, square rim, very similar almost exact as the Philly. The quarter, nickel, dime also look like same or very, very similar to Philly SMS set. The penny has serious mark on the head, but does have somewhat SMS type reverse rim and they have a satiny look. Not to get off track here. Just was wondering if that was the norm. I was scratching my head, Like whats the deal here?? They just avoided Denver or just never really scrutinized?? I will post them seperately..
In any case, I have done my own homework on the finish and possible what it consisted of. I have enlarged images and looked at them with large type loop to look at finish and the scribble which looks to me like letters in cursive and numbers.
I believe that the planchets were specially treated prior to strike, I think to that a used die was used not fresh. A fresh die would not have the die cracks with so little strikes. Looking closely, There are many.
I just like sharing thoughts on these. My thoughts are, anything is possible thus maybe some of these coins of all denominations were possibly test struck on other planchets, mixed in leftovers rather than melting and so on. Just outside the box thinking. I mean, If I have any coin that really looks close to any of these.... Sure.. who knows..
I will be posting a very interesting find soon that I believe will help this topic. I have to go over my findings and so far looks good. It hopefully will shed much needed light.