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Consigning a collection
AlanSki
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My family has decided it’s time to let a massive collection go. It’s too many items to sell individually, about $500k worth.
What company is the better choice, GC, Heritage, Legends, or???
It’s anything from Buffalo’s, Morgan’s, Peace, to Classic Commems (2 complete sets). 95% are in OGH, NGC fatty and soap bar ANACS.
Suggestions with pro’s and con’s to both would be helpful.
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All depends on what you have. If you know an honest, reputable dealer, and it's stuff that doesn't really need to go to auction, that is also an option.
Early holdered stuff, any body would love to get it. If its not just higher dollar stuff, Id try GC.
wish somebody would come in to my shop with a 500k deal
GC has great customer service, excellent images and is getting bigger stuff and more clients all the time. Never consigned to the other two. Best of luck with the sales!
My parents were wondering since they are in SoCal, would GC come to their home to evaluate, help fill out forms, and take the items from there in order to save on shipping/mistakes?
I agree. If there is a large amount of under $100 stuff, I don't think Heritage or Stack's is a good choice. You could sort higher value material, if there is any, but you might not want to do the work.
I will also add that if you have under $50 stuff, you are probably better off with a dealer. Ian can correct me if I'm wrong, but you've got a 10% buyer's fee, a 10% seller's fee and a $5 (which is 10+% on under $50) setup fee. As a result, you are paying 30% or slightly more on $50 and under items. For a lot of material, like common date 63 Morgans for example, dealer bid/ask spread is only 10 to 20%.
And, if I can add another caveat, I wouldn't send MS60 to MS63 common date gold to auction either. While there is 0% seller's fee at GC if it is over $1000, you are still taking a 10+% hit on bullion items that have dealer bid/ask spreads of approximately 5%.
I helped a friend about ten years ago liquidate an extensive collection with a value of $750.000.
Heritage arranged an appointment to arrive at my home- spent a couple of hours going through the collection and determined the best course of action, depending on the coin.
Some raw ones were sent to PCGS (via Heritage), and others were placed into groupings and auctioned. The expensive coins were placed and featured in a Long Beach auction like bust gold, high-grade key dates.
Heritage handled everything and kept us informed. Yes, it took close to nine months to receive final payments, but it was worth it.
I'd highly recommend Heritage today.
peacockcoins
What is the overall quality level of the coins it contains? Telling me that is has a lot of OGH holders and fatties tells me nothing. The quality of the coins has to be there. Coin in ANACS holders of any period are probably not going to generate much interest. The market wants PCGS and NGC preferably with stickers. Whatever you do make sure you know just how your consignment is going to be handled BEFORE signing any contract. Get everything in writing. Once you have signed the contract you are at their mercy. Read the entire contract closely. Expect to lose money on "ordinary" coins.
Contact GC
See what they can arrange.
I know GC is popular and does well, but as a slight counterpoint, so far I’ve never bid on anything I’d theirs because i disagree on the images—I think they’re poor, washed out and small considering how much of the resolution is dedicated to the slab and how many clicks are required to even see the photos as large as they come.
The only real question is net proceeds to the consignor. I'm not sure anyone has done a careful comparison across venues for items that have clear comps.
I know some people who have done that.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Lol. Of course. I meant in a general, public way that would help someone assess a collection.
Since the summer I have sent 300 or so coins through GC and have not been disappointed. Takes a bit to get paid after auction but have been happy with the results.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
If you have a list of items, and I feel you do. Why not place the list on the BST forum and take offers on the smaller stuff or all for that matter. It would alleviate the dealer from going through so much which might make them be less accurate than individual sales. Right now your family feels overwhelmed and that is normal. There are several members here who are dealers and would help you, I feel sure. One thing to remember is taxes. 2022 will require taxes to be paid on the sales thru most venues. Another reason to use the BST for the smaller value coins as by the time taxes and fees are paid it takes quite a bite out of your final value. Not EVEN recommending you avoid taxes as any of the venues will be sending a form to you in order to pay your taxes, but if using the BST is not taxable then why not use it for the smaller value items.
Just an opinion.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I don’t know if GC will come to your place (I’d be surprised if they wouldn’t for a large consignment like yours) but you can drop your coins off with them and they will help with the paperwork.
You also don’t have to consign the entire family collection with one company and you can also gradually consign the collection over time.
Keep in mind that GC and Stacks are located a few miles apart.
Good luck.
Uhhh... you can be damn sure selling through the BST is taxable. Suggesting that someone use the BST to avoid getting forms and thus not have to pay taxes is EXACTLY recommending they avoid taxes. A 1099 has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING on whether taxes are owed.
Absolutely true but the BST involves the honor system while there’s no such thing as an honor system with a 1099 for most.
My guess is that the advice given wasn’t intentionally recommending avoiding paying taxes. But that instead, it was based on lack of understanding of tax laws. However, either way, i believe it was I’ll advised.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I understand how sensitive the forum has become(yes, become as this wasn't an issue in the past) regarding the new tax law for 2022, and as I stated I was not advising to avoid paying taxes owed, but that their is a difference in getting a 1099 and not getting a 1099. What anyone does is between them and their government, not for blamers or angry business owners. I truly think it would be SAD to find what taxes were paid by members using the BST as a factual number, not guessing. I the last five year period of selling on ebay, I have unfortunately lost money 2 of the 5 years. I hope no one here believes any forum member would recommend to anyone to not pay taxes. Perhaps I should have better stated my statement and, if so, I apologise for any misconceptions of its content.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
That's the whole thing--there is no difference if you report your sales as the law has always required, so offering advice about how to avoid getting a 1099 is useful only for someone who wants to avoid properly reporting their sale, and the only reason to do that is to avoid paying taxes.
Jim,
Those that know you trusted you were not providing "ways to avoid paying taxes".
Your content was fine.
peacockcoins
The letters I get from heritage say they will come to you to evaluate your collection. I bet 500k would get you an evaluation at your house from a friendly coin guy from Texas
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Hi - I recommend GC too.
Yes, no problem to pick up from your parents, and we would fill out all the forms, and they are fully insured from the moment we take possession of them.
If you like any further information about our services, please call us at 1-800-442-6467.
Happy New Year!
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Selling a collection of that size on the BST sounds like a nightmare in terms of the amount of work required. For a $500k collection, I would attempt to negotiate fees with the auction house(s). If there are a lot of high value items in the mix, Heritage might be my first choice, otherwise I'd probably go with GC. They're both beyond reproach. Whatever you think of GC's photos (I like them more than many here), they don't seem to negatively impact realized prices in my experience.
Ah...BST is taxable. You're just avoiding the taxes. {edited to add: I see I'm late to this party}
I would add that it isn't "angry dealers" for no reason. When people avoid sales tax or income taxes, they are undermining my ability to compete because I'm paying both. How would you feel if someone recommended to your boss that they could outsource your job to India for half the money? It's kind of the same thing.
Are you sure you wouldn't recommend Heritage?
When I consigned mine to GC, I was a little worried about the photo issue myself, I discussed with Ian, and they took good photo's before lisitng especially on the coins that count. Everything went well IMO, the prices realized were in line, and quite good in some cases.
I highly recommend GC and Ian Russell. They sold a few coins for me and did a great job. If you haven't already done so, check out their website. Their commission rate is very competitive. They take a personal interest in your collection and you. If you need to talk to them, they actually answer their phone.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I hate to feed this debate as it will never be settled.
I certainly understand the concerns and the analogy.
But...dealers get to deduct losses and expenses related to their business - private sellers do not, in regard to their collecting pursuits. Dealers also have accountants already on the payroll (also deductible).
Last year I sold one significant collectable, got a 1099, and attempted to put it on my taxes properly. I have always done my own taxes with no issues, but for the life of me I could not find any conceivable way to get the sale from the special schedule over to the 1040 form while capturing the 28 percent tax due. It ended up going on as regular income and I am still waiting for the IRS to correct my error and send the actual tax refund that I am still due.
By the time all the costs associated with that sale are factored in, about 50% my "profit" will be gone. It really almost wasn't worth the hassle to sell.
What is the average coin value here with and without outliers? Are we talking closer to 50 $10000 coins, 500 $1000 coins, 5000 $100 coins? Who came up with the $500k evaluation? Is it based on auction data or price guide value?
I know GC is popular and does well, but as a slight counterpoint, so far I’ve never bid on anything I’d theirs because i disagree on the images—I think they’re poor, washed out and small considering how much of the resolution is dedicated to the slab and how many clicks are required to even see the photos as large as they come.
I would heed what airplanenut has said in each of his posts, then consider either Stack's or Heritage seriously before making any decision. if this collection is worth what you stated, I believe any auction house would be willing to meet with you: if not, they should immediately be crossed of the list as a final decision. also, before you even get to that point it is probably a very good idea to go through everything and have an individual value assessment. it doesn't seem logical to me that everything should be listed at the same place and at the same time, but that might be a decision better left to whoever handles the consignment --- they are true experts at that and handle such matters routinely.
in the end you might end up consigning the bulk of things, the best/better/higher value, with Stack's or Heritage, the generic, slabbed widgets with Great Collections and the ordinary, raw stuff or problem coins with a locally trusted dealer. whatever the decision, try to be patient and seek advice.
I’ll recommend Stack’s as well. They provided excellent service when I sold off my collection last year. They’ll separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak, and put everything in the right venue.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Four good auction houses have been mentioned. Legend is best with super high end coins. Stacks and possibly Heritage have a retail outlet for lesser value coins that wouldn't merit an auction. Make up a list of your best PCGS & NGC coins and ask each of them if they would be interested. It's possible that each would like to make an appointment to see the coins. If you can meet with each at your safe deposit box, you can then decide with whom you would have the most comfortable working relationship. Make a list of all of your questions before the appointments so that there are no surprises further down the road. Complete all appointments before making a decision. Don't feel you need to make a decision on the spot.
Insightful Thread !
Having been a buy & hold collector I sometimes wonder what my options are when I decide to rehome my treasures.
I was really referring to "part-time dealers" more than collectors. There are people who are constantly flipping material and don't consider themselves dealers and don't treat it like a business. Those people are reaping the benefits and not paying the REQUIRED taxes.
As a "dealer", I also get to pay self-employment tax. So for a small time dealer like myself, there is no accountant. My only business deductions are inventory costs, eBay fees and show travel costs. And any gains are taxed as regular income which means (in NY State) a total tax bill of 51%. And, of course, coins are sales taxable in NY State.
So, I buy a wholesale Morgan $ worth $100 and pay $80 for it. The buyer only wants to pay $92 because of sales tax. My $12 profit is taxed at 51%, so that's $6 profit. And so my profit margin is less than 8% on a coin that might take me weeks or months to sell. You can buy the coin for $90 and sell it for $100 and make more money.
So consider how that changes the landscape if you are either a "collector" or "part-time non-taxpaying dealer". Especially for things like bullion which have very slim margins to begin with. If you want to buy bullion and put it on the BST and pay not taxes, you can swing it on a 5% margin or less if the buyer pays by check. As a "taxpaying dealer", I potentially have to charge sales tax (in NY, bullion under $1000) which is already 8% added to the cost, my profits are taxed at 51% while yours are taxed at 0%. I can't compete. And you can only compete because you are avoiding the taxes.
That would be best.
You would also have to REALLY KNOW your prices in order to not end up costing yourself money...although making numerous friends on the BST!
Heritage has an office in Beverly Hills. All of the majors have live bodies working in So. Cal.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
If mine I'd want auction houses with catalogers for written descriptions.
Since $500K isn't enough to get your own catalog sale, I'd place 1/2 with HA and 1/2 with SB to cover the odds.
GC by far in my experience - they will even send raw matl thru TPG and then CAC (if requested). Plus I think their juice lower too.
If it were me, I'd reach out to folks that have experience in these matters. Mark Feld comes to mind. I know (at last I heard) he's with Heritage but, believe he's above board and would steer you correctly. He's not the only one, but just came to mind.
I'm sure with $500k at stake some give is available with the fees. Don't be in a hurry and shop it around.
Good luck...
How do the commission (both buyer and seller) rates compare between GC, Stacks, and Heritage?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
You can’t know all of that unless you talk to each company about a specific consignment.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I beg 2 differ on G.C having poor washed out photos.. I would consider them to be better then heritage and stacks all day long.
@ike126 In my view, there is always room for any improvement and an ocassional investment in newer digital image technology is worthy of study. I think it would be a good investment for GC to look into possible improvements to their current set-up. ROI on digital image technology advancement pays back a business.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.