Victor David Brenner & His Lincoln Cent by Joshua McMorrow-Hernandez - April 22, 2020

Lincoln Cent collectors new and seasoned alike know the three ubiquitous letters of their specialty – and we’re not talking “P,” “D,” and “S” signifying the common 20th-century minting trio of the Philadelphia, Denver, San Francisco Mints. Rather, this is a discussion about another familiar alphabetical trinity that represents a veritable Holy Grail for Lincoln Cent collectors. These are the letters “VDB,” which boldly appear on the reverse of the scarce 1909 VDB and rare 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cents and the obverse of all Lincoln Cents made since 1918. For many, the “VDB” initials are an important if faceless feature on the Lincoln cent. But there is a face behind the “VDB,” and the man to whom those letters belong is none other than Victor David Brenner, a celebrated medalist and sculptor who was born in Lithuania 1871 as Avigdor David Brenner and immigrated to the Settling in the New York City area, Brenner found success as a gem and seal engraver – trades that parlayed the sculpting talents he learned from his father, who was an ornamental sculptor and engraver. The younger Brenner was also enamored with numismatics and in 1894 joined the American Numismatic and Archaeological Society, an organization for which he eventually served as a die-cutting instructor; in 1902, Brenner became a member of the American Numismatic Association. By the 1900s, Brenner was producing medallic dies for various private ventures and had become adept in the Janvier reducing lathe, a device used for accurately transferring designs on Galvano-sized plaster models down to the final die size. He had gained great respect for this artistry and die-making skills and was commissioned for various projects, including a rectangular 1903 Amerigo Vespucci medal that was particularly well received in the medal community.United States in 1890.
The project that helped seal Brenner’s legacy was a 1907 medal and plaque featuring a right-facing profile of Abraham Lincoln. Several hundred or more reproductions were quickly created at a time when many in the United States still fondly remembered Lincoln and his 1861-1865 presidency, not unlike how countless Americans today recall the brief but colorful presidency of John F. Kennedy that began in 1961 and ended with his assassination in 1963. Nostalgia surrounding Lincoln, who was assassinated in 1865 in the waning days of the Civil War, was sweeping the nation as the centennial of his birth in 1809 was nearing.
Creating the Lincoln Cent
Brenner and President Theodore Roosevelt were discussing the Lincoln plaque, and this conversation led to the idea of placing Lincoln’s profile on a circulating coin. Meanwhile, Brenner was gaining acclaim in numismatic circles both for his work as a die engraver and medal artist and for having helped found the New York Numismatic Club in December 1908. During which time, Brenner and Roosevelt had continued their discussions of a Lincoln coin, leading to a January 1909 letter submitted by the Treasury Department to the editor of The Numismatist stating “President Roosevelt has given his consent to the placing of the head of Lincoln on one of the popular coins.” The letter went on to say that “Victor D. Brenner, New York sculptor, has submitted to the director some models of Lincoln busts, and these have been shown to the president. The Head of Lincoln will adorn one side of the coin and the customary coat of arms on the other.”
By March 1909, it was decided the denomination to receive the new Lincoln design would be the one-cent coin, which had carried the Indian Head motif since 1859. Models containing the right-facing bust of Lincoln, adapted from Brenner’s 1907 medal and plaque, were created for the obverse. Meanwhile, a variety of reverse designs was eventually pared down to one containing a pair of wheat stalks representing national prosperity. The numismatic world became privy to the developments of the new Lincoln Cent through published reports in The Numismatist, which in the March 1909 issue had announced the coming arrival of Brenner’s new Lincoln and in July edition stated 22,213,575 one-cent coins had been minted at the Philadelphia Mint in June, “believed all to be of the new type.”
The new Lincoln Cent was released on August 2, 1909, to warm public reception. Lines formed around the block at the Treasury Building in Washington, D.C., the Philadelphia Mint, and at other places supplying the coin around the United States. The coin was a hit, being the first non-commemorative, circulating coin struck with the bust of a former United States president, and posthumously one of the most popular at that. Enterprising young children who managed to purchase quantities of the coin sold them for three, five, even 25 cents each on the day of release. However, some of the early recipients of the Lincoln Cent took exception with the prominence of Brenner’s “VDB” initials on the bottom of the reverse, between the two wheat ears.
The relatively small “VDB” feature on the reverse had been negotiated down from the more prominent placement of Brenner’s full name on the obverse, as the artist as he had originally designed on early models. However, some dissatisfaction with the “VDB” initials, either from the public or internally at the United States Mint or United States Treasury, was related to the media. A New York Times story from August 5, 1909 recounts the situation this way:
“Secretary of the Treasury [Franklin] MacVeagh has decided to stop the minting of the new Lincoln Cents. New dies will be prepared as soon as possible, substituting for the initials of the designer the single initial ‘B’ in an obscure part of the design. None of the cents issued so far will be called in, but the minting be stopped because a sufficient supply is on hand. The initials V.D.B. are those of the designer, V.D. Brenner of New York, and the single initial will be, it is considered, a sufficient recognition of his work. This decision created much surprise, as the Treasury Department announced yesterday that the new coins would be in circulation for the present at least, and that the use of the initials on them was in line with a custom that had prevailed for years. This prominence, however, awakened widespread criticism, and today’s action followed further consideration of the matter. Mr. MacVeagh said today that he did not know that the initials would appear in embossed form on the pennies, and that he was surprised when he saw them. It has been customary to allow designers to cut initials into the design somewhere, but they have usually been so small as to require a magnifying glass to discover them.”
As many numismatists know, one does not need a magnifying glass to see the “VDB” initials on the Lincoln Cent. They are clearly evident at the base by the bottom center of the reverse rim. And the prominence of this feature has only helped secure the popularity of this type, which ultimately lasted only a couple weeks in production before the initials were pulled. While plans were publicized to recognize Brenner on the coin with a simple and inconspicuous “B,” Assistant Secretary of the Treasury C.D. Norton saw a logistics issue with this, stating that while adding a “B” to the coin somewhere would be an easy process, removing the intaglio “VDB” inscription from the master hub could take at least two weeks. The most efficient solution would be to simply erase the “VDB” initials without inscribing a “B” elsewhere on the coin.
Maybe the move was efficiency at work, or perhaps heated internal politics were gaining the upper hand. This could be reasonably concluded as then-Chief Engraver Charles E. Barber, whose name is also represented as a single “B” on his coinage, did not want the public to think he had a hand in creating the Lincoln Cent, a coin he personally disliked.
Brenner’s Legacy Cemented
Brenner was understandably upset that his initials were removed, especially given that many other coins of the day had carried the initials of their respective designers – a point MacVeagh had himself illustrated in the August 5, 1909 New York Times article as partly republished above. As Brenner wrote to The Numismatist on August 12, 1909:
“It is mighty hard for me to express my sentiments with reference to the initials on the cent. The name of the artist on a coin is essential for the student of history as it enables him to trace environments and conditions of the time said coin was produced. Much fume has been made about my initials as the means for an advertisement; such is not the case. The very talk the initials has brought out has done better for numismatics than it could do me personally. The cent not alone represents in part my art, but it represents the type of art of our period.”
Brenner would live to see his initials restored on the Lincoln Cent in 1918, an act that happened only after MacVeagh was superseded by Secretary of the Treasury William McAdoo in 1913 and Barber’s passing four years later in 1917. Numismatists could argue it was Brenner who came out ahead in the end. Not only did his “VDB” initials reemerge on the Lincoln cent not upon its reverse but rather its obverse, where the artist had originally wanted his name represented, but also his original 1909 VDB coins became among the most desirable collectibles in all of numismatics.
Today, the 1909 VDB Lincoln Cents are among the most popular of the series, with the Philadelphia issue serving as a significant first-year and one-year-only type coin. Meanwhile, the 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent from the San Francisco Mint reigns as the series key. The 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent is the lowest-mintage regular-issue cent in the series, with only 484,000 having been struck. It’s one of the few numismatic rarities that even many non-collectors know about and actively seek in circulation – if to virtually no avail these days.
The Lincoln Cent continues onward as the longest-issued major type in United States coinage. Furthermore, it is one of the most widely collected coins in the world, with people even from other nations collecting Brenner’s one-cent coin as a representative United States type. Brenner died in 1924 never seeing his numismatic brainchild become the success that it ultimate has grown to be. Surely, it’s not far-fetched to believe that, somewhere, Brenner is looking down and smiling.
Works Cited
• Baranauskas, Edward W. “Profiles: Brenner Of Baranauskas? Unraveling the Mystery of the Name and Origin of the Designer of the Lincoln Penny.” Draugas News. March 15, 2000.
• Bowers, Q. David. A Guide Book of Lincoln Cents. Whitman Publishing, 2008.
• Bowers, Q. David. “The Controversial 1909 V.D.B. Lincoln Cent.” PCGS. April 10, 2001.
• Breen, Walter. Complete Encyclopedia of U.S. and Colonial Coins. Doubleday, 1988.
• CoinWeek IQ. “CoinWeek Coin Designer Profiles: Victor David Brenner.” CoinWeek. August 4, 2015.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Comments
According to Joshua's article, Brenner's real first name was Avigdor. "Victor" must be an Americanized version of his first name that was decided by the powers that be at the mint at the time would be more politically acceptable. "The new cent shall bear the designer's initials as VDB," they decreed. To be technically correct however, the 1909 issue Lincoln cents that were to bear designer Brenner's initials should have been rolled out by the Philadelphia and San Francisco mints as "A.D.B." I would have been okay with that...And leave the dots out.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874.... Nice summary of this bit of cent history and the interplay of social issues. Cheers, RickO
Some time ago, I read an article that asserted that the "vainglorious" Chief Engraver of the Mint, Charles Barber, was instrumental in getting Brenner's initials removed from the cent. After all, Barber got only the single letter 'B" put on coins of his design. Easy to see that he might well have been upset about Brenner getting all three of his initials on the new cents of 1909. The initials V.D.B. were ultimately entirely removed for the remainder of 1909 Lincoln cents not already struck and did not appear again on Lincoln cents until 1918, after Barber's death in 1917.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
He was primarily an artist and a sculptor, and they signed their work.
I previously did some research on the VDB initials on the LC. I did not use secondary references (written material from other collectors or numismatists). My primary references were period written articles from 1909. I'm on travel and found a 1909 newspaper snippet that I posted a few years ago.
.
Dang! I was really hoping this was going to be the thread you mentioned.
And not one word about Harsche dies and his expert authentication book.
"I been thinking about starting a thread entitled "Show me your counterfeit 1909-S V.D.B. from Harsche obverse Die #6 for 1909-S without V.D.B."
"Harsche apparently never saw 1909-S V.D.B. with 'S' far low and far right. The three obverse dies that Harsche identifies for 1909-S V.D.B. can be seen as PCGS #2 (Harsche Die No.1), PCGS #3 (Harshe Die No. 2) and PCGS #4 (Harsche Die No. 3). PCGS #1 (with it's mess of an 'S') was unknown by Harsche, with or without V.D.B."
And you forgot to post all of your thoughts and opinions.
"I have some thoughts about the third dot. What is it for? Put the dot after the V (for Victor) and the D (for David) but the dot after the B doesn't make any sense to me. V. D. Brenner is the designer of the Lincoln cent. V.D.B , no dot after the B, would be a more logical way of putting Brenner's "signature," if you will, on the Lincoln Cent that he designed. Maybe, just maybe a bored mint worker decided to try his hand at modifying the V.D.B. and in doing so put HIS signature on a few SVDB's that made it into the channels of commerce."
"There could be more than 4 mint mark placements for 1909-S V.D.B. but I doubt it at this time. PCGS #1 looks "off" to me. The 'S' on it is a mess. I doubt it's for 1909-S V.D.B. or even for 1909-S without V.D.B. Scratch that one off the list and add "far low, far right" and we're up to 4 again."
I previously did some research on the VDB initials on the LC. I did not use secondary references (written material from other collectors or numismatists). My primary references were period written articles from 1909. I'm on travel and found a 1909 newspaper snippet that I posted a few years ago.
That is an interesting newspaper clip, thank you for posting it. I've seen S VDB'S that are so boldly struck one can see Brenner's initials from across the room.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
And you forgot to post all of your thoughts and opinions.
I do have a very active imagination.

I wrote: "PCGS #1 looks "off" to me. The 'S' on it is a mess. I doubt it's for 1909-S V.D.B. or even for 1909-S without V.D.B. Scratch that one off the list and add "far low, far right" and we're up to 4 again."
I was wrong here. "Mess of an 'S' " 1909-S V.D.B. does exist. It's from PCGS Obverse Die #1 for 1909-S V.D.B. Harsche never saw it. Thank you for your help in setting me straight. Doesn't seem to be many of them around though. My theory is that these were first off the press. Officials at the SF mint were not pleased with what they were seeing regarding the 'S' so the die was taken out of service before many S VDB's were made with it.
btw, I still think my S VDB could be a genuine San Francisco mint product. Stay tuned. There's a lot more to come.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Numismatic decisions that created a legacy of collecting. Look it. Peace Roy
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Would be interesting to learn about the approval process for new coinage designs that was in place at the Mint around 1909. Where was Secretary of the Treasury MacVeagh during the approval process for the Brenner design? Were there not any trial strikes of 1909 Lincolns with the V.D.B. initials made for MacVeagh to examine?
The Director of the Mint serves as chief officer of the United States Mint, and operates with general directions from the Secretary of the Treasury. Frank A. Leach was Director of the Mint from September 1907 to August 1909. After Leach left, the position of Mint Director was vacant until November of 1909. Did Leach voluntarily resign his position or was he forced out by MacVeagh? I'm thinking Leach might have been made a scapegoat for the V.D.B. debacle. Leach was a Californian but presumably would have had to live in Pennsylvania with his office as Mint Director in Philadelphia. In 1909 there was no such thing as working from home.
There may have been a lot of anger among workers at the San Francisco mint for what happened in Philadelphia, August 1909, with their native son Californian Frank Leach.
https://www.usmint.gov/about/leadership/former-directors
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@Mr1874
Here is a couple of 09SVB images, does this one pair up with any of the Harsche die #'s?
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
What is the PCGS Die # for this one? I loaned my only copy of Harsche to a friend so it's not available for me to look at right now.
UPDATE 12.29.21: After consulting with my friend on the phone we have concluded that the penny seen above is bad. No match with Harsche #1,#2,or #3 seen.
Take a closer look at the images again, and think (question) genuine or not including the holder
The holder looks off to me. But I admit I'm not schooled in what a genuine PCGS holder should look like. Never mind Harsche. Are you seeing a match of the 'S' mintmark position with any of the four PCGS dies for S VDB? I will bump again ifthevamsarockin's thread so it would be a little easier to find. UPDATE 1/8/22: Thread bumped but request was made by ifthevamzarockin that I not bump any thread originated by him. Request honored. That's where the PCGS images are. If you reply to this please do so as an UPDATE in your post, the one following this one. Or PM me if you want. Let's not disrupt this thread with distraction from the wonderful work of Victor D. Brenner that members are posting here.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I just recently acquired the images, so I've not done that comparison yet.
I've been really busy over the weekend with Christmas, and helping my stepson move. So, I've not spent much time at the computer other than short little hits.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
The four PCGS Overse Dies for 1909-S V.D.B can be seen in the Shallow N-Deep Valley N thread I believe. Tell me what you are seeing and I can call my friend and describe what I'm seeing here to him. PCGS Die #2= Harsche Die #1. PCGS Die #3= Harsche Die #2. PCGS Die #4= Harsche Die #3. It's definitely not Harsche Die #3 (PCGS Die #4) I can tell you that.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Well, I've got the images of the die sets stored on a jump drive, but by memory with the strong lean to the right of the mint mark maybe Die #3
I posted them really quick to see what your opinion was on the Harsche Die#.
Tomorrow I can put the images side by side and see which of the 4 dies sets it look most like, I wished the image was a little clearer!
I'll match them up tomorrow!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
The copy of Harsche 5th Edition (with front and back cover intact) that I ordered recently won't be delivered until Jan 5 or so. I'm excited to be getting it. They are not easy to find.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Frank A. Leach was a newspaperman who became Superintendent of the San Francisco mint in 1897. In the aftermath of the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, the heroic efforts by Frank A. Leach and his men preserved the old San Francisco Mint building and the bullion that then backed the nation's currency. Here's a link showing photos of the aftermath of the Great San Francisco Earthquake of April 18, 1906...https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2016/04/photos-of-the-1906-san-francisco-earthquake/477750/
This picture captivates me. People helping people in the aftermath of the earthquake. I would love to have a 24x36 print of this one to hang in my humble art gallery...

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Here are examples of the Brenner plaque and medal that inspired the Lincoln cent.
I would advise perspective buyers to be very careful when you are looking to purchase one of these pieces. There are copies on the market which are worth far less than the real thing. This one is mounted on green marble.
Here is the Lincoln medal by Brenner. I love the imagery on the reverse with the lone eagle on a cliff with the raging sea below and the rays of hope from above,
The Lincoln plaque and medal you posted are wonderful pieces, Bill. I can't believe Chief Engraver Charles Barber did not like the Lincoln cent design by Brenner. The medal, especially, is stunningly beautiful, in my opinion.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I believe it was less "not liking" the design, and more being very jealous of these outside sculptors coming in and doing what he expected himself to do. Brenner was, by no means, the only one (nor the first) to face Barber's ire.
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
@mr1874
Well, let me back up a bit on those images I posted of the SVDB above.
I had only gotten those images a short time before I posted them.
I was excited to acquire the images because the coin/slab combo is a first for me to have come across of the SVDB!
When I posted them I figured for SURE that you would have spotted the issues given some time to examine the pictures, especially after the recent 09SVDB threads.
Maybe the historical content here is a bit of a distraction to the details and purpose of the images I posted?
Take a closer look at the images again, and think (question) genuine or not including the holder
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Love Brenner's designs, especially this early football medal:


Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Gorgeous. Brenner's work is incredible. I'm prouder than ever to be a Lincoln cent collector. I've been inspired to put back on the wall my Coppercoins.com commemorative poster of Lincoln painstakingly made by Charles Daughtrey with images of parts of Lincoln cents.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Nice story. His original birth name was Viktoras Baranauskas, but this was changed in order to make it easier to gain citizenship in the United States.
This is not true, but was invented by a Dr. Rackus for a 1929 article in The Numismatist. Rackus was attempting to "Lithuanianize" Brenner's name in the wake of the democratic/authoritarian struggles that the country was experiencing at the time. Brenner's name was one of many things that this happened to in the late '20s regarding Lithuania. At birth, Brenner's name was Avigdor David Brenner in English, in Hebrew it was Avigdor ben Gershon. Early on in the U.S., he went by David Brenner, before he anglicized Avigdor to Victor and added it to his name. His wife and siblings called him Dave, while his nephew knew him as Uncle Victor. Rackus was also the one who made up the story that Brenner had to flee Russia in 1890 in order to avoid a charge of counterfeiting. Again, not true.
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
Dr. Kraft your scholarship is much appreciated here. Thank you for your contributions to this thread.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I concur. These forums are full of knowledgeable people, most of whom contribute on a daily basis. Keeps me coming back every hour or so. 😆
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
@mr1874 (your wrote)
WE'RE not on hold for the results of anything.
What you mean is, your not on hold!
I think the others here that put in a great deal of time trying to help is on hold, hoping you decide to resubmit your coin, because we ran it down every road & avenue on the city map that was available to us!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
post deleted by mr1874
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
My goal in my common 09SVDB threads is to try to get as many of the counterfeit & altered 09SVDB's off the market and out of circulation as possible, and to help others that share the same interest to better spot them, including me!
That brings us back to this newly introduced counterfeit that I thought you would pick right up on.
Take a look at the designer's initials, there is enough details to see that the period following the "D" is tucked to close to the "D"
Now, what about the plastic slab the coin is in?
To my knowledge it was collectively agreed after you finely posted the image of your PCGS slab that your look genuine, right?
Well, look at the slab this coin is in, count the fingers that are holding the coin in place!
Count the fingers that is hold your coin in place!
Notice how the fingers hold the counterfeit coin looks to be raised up, look at yours!
Notice the cheap paper tag in this one vs the one in yours!
When I first posted that coin, I had ever reason to believe that with extremely vast background about these coin that you would have noticed the issues with the counterfeit one, buts I can see how with your mind being so involved in the History of the designer that you wasn't focused on the authenticity of a coin and so those details slipped by you? Like the old saying, "Can't See The Trees For The Forest".
Someone paid $1,300 for this coin! This is the reason for my threads
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
My apologies to the members here who have made valuable contributions to this thread. PCGS please remove the post by MarkW63 that precedes this one. Readers here deserve better.
UPDATE 1/08/22: Request to remove post rescinded.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 You have done exactly the same thing across 4 threads but you don't like it when someone does it to you.
post deleted by mr1874
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Reminder for MarkW63 and ifthevamzarockin: These threads are OWNED by PCGS. We are guests here, NOT owners of threads.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Facts seem to be painful for you.
PCGS please delete everything, including my posts, that follow DCW's post which was:UPDATE 1/8/22: Request rescinded.
I concur. These forums are full of knowledgeable people, most of whom contribute on a daily basis. Keeps me coming back every hour or so.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
You sir!
have on purpose high jack at lest three others threads with the NON stop chatter with your coin!
I left your threads!
You searched and followed my new thread for the soul purpose to derail it!
I & others spent most of the entire Christmas weekend trying really hard to help you with your coin!
And you seem to be upset with the general consensus that unless its resubmitted we here couldn't be of anymore help?
So, now you've made it your goal to disrupt, high jack, and derail other members threads with your coin.
None of this had to play out this way, but take a look back and when and how this all got started,
My thread!
With!
"Huston We Have A Problem"
You had a coin with the same mint mark location as the counterfeit in the OP!
So, that thread was hijacked, along with now three other threads about your coin!
And Your upset because you feel your thread is being high jacked!
We're just carrying on the conversation you want let go of and REFUSE to do anything about!
I made you a friendly $50.00 offer, but I'll be more direct with what I meant with that offer.
That offer was saying,
I think (????) your coin is an Altered 1909-S (no VDB) and I've got $50.00 saying if you resubmit it, you'll get it back in a baggie with a note saying, "Not Genuine"
The way I feel about this at this point is if you're not going to drop it with your coin, and your not willing to do anything about it, then its going to go on forever! well here we are, still beating the dead horse! WHY?
When is a good time to let it go?
Its starting to stink anyway, its been going on for nearly a week now.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I've got $50.00
Chump change.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Here's Charles Daughtrey's remarkable poster commemorating Coppercoins.com's 10,000th site image, March 22, 2007.


It resides on my gallery wall next to Led Zeppelin.
And I heartily recommend Daughtery's book on Lincoln cents for collectors at all levels of collecting, beginner through advanced.
"Chuck Daughtery has a real fascination with Lincoln cent varieties, and these are presented in an entertaining and rich illustrated book that readers will refer to again and again. For the collector who is ready to go beyond the basic date and mint set, this is a must have book." David W. Lange, author, The Complete Guide to Lincoln Cents
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Really. So when he was born in Lithuania his parents had anglicized names? He didn't come to the U.S. until he was 19 years old, and I guess he didn't speak with an accent either.
Wikipedia isn't always true.
So his Jewish parents in Lithuania knew he would one day move to the UK or an anglo country when he was born.
Wikipedia isn't always true.
You're right about Wikipedia. I caught them in a discrepency regarding when Frank Leach assumed his duties as Director of the Mint. I'm hearing the ring of truth with what Dr. Kraft is saying about Brenner's first name evolvement , however.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
No, he had both Germanic and Hebrew names. When he was born in Russia (as Lithuania was in between existence at this point), his parents named him אביגדור בן גרשון (as is written on his tombstone, just a mile from where I live, which translates to Avigdor ben Gershon), and Avigdor David Brenner in German. A large percentage of Eastern European Jewish families used two surnames, Brenner's included. (Here is a good source regarding double names in this context: https://yivoencyclopedia.org/printarticle.aspx?id=2126). Although he was born and raised in Russia, he and his family spoke German in addition to Hebrew (an okay source, but mainly about Courland [just above what is now Lithuania, though discusses Lithuanian-Jews. We have print sources on "Lithuania" proper]: https://www.jewishgen.org/courland/lipschitz.htm). His German was probably not the German they spoke in Berlin, however, but a German-Hebrew mix with an Eastern European accent. While he likely knew Russian, he did not speak this at home, nor Lithuanian. There is zero mention of Viktoras Baranauskas until 1929—five years after Brenner's death. Once Brenner moved to the U.S., he went by only David Brenner before he anglicized "Avigdor" to "Victor" and added it to his name. He did not learn English until he moved to the U.S. and, during his years in France, training with Oscar Roty, he learned French as well (the ANS has postcards he sent to/from brother Michael Brenner in decent French). We know that he didn't speak English when he arrived to the U.S., as he himself stated, "I well remember the day I landed. I was full of the most startled surprise; it was so much bigger than I expected, and I felt so small. I had no knowledge of English, no friends, but I was well equipped with the trade of an engraver, and I quickly found employment as a die-cutter. My hours of work were long and hard, with little diversion. However, I had made up my mind I would let nothing interfere with the success I had determined upon, so any spare time I found at my disposal I used in learning the English language, and as soon as I had sufficient ability in reading everything I could lay my hands on. Good fortune came my way almost from the start; I not only made money and plenty of it, but in the year that I followed I found friends." This comes from a 1920 interview he did with Clara Whiteside, who actually mentioned, to your last point, that Brenner still spoke with "just a hint of the mother tongue"—again, that German-Hebrew mix with the Russian accent.
I'm well aware that Wikipedia is not always correct, and you will be able to read as much about Victor D. Brenner as you would like (Wikipedia sources excluded) when the ANS publications on Brenner are in print this coming year. We have planned a catalogue raisonné (Smedley and Johnson are woefully incomplete) that will include a biography on him, as well as the published proceedings from the Victor D. Brenner sesquicentennial Coinage of the Americas Conference (COAC) that the ANS held in September. Thank you for the opportunity to better explain myself here.
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
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