@amwldcoin said:
Insult or not it's a fact! CAC only is able to exist because some collectors don't trust their judgement, along with the TPG's loosening their standards....especially on coins that not so long ago would not receive a straight grade which are now given a pass today. There are even some with that glorified bean that IMHO should not receive a straight grade. You will recall I posted a prime example of that here not so long ago. To each their own.
Nice coins for the grade will always sell for more than a sub par example....bean or no bean!
This is all true. I am not Mark Feld, Bill Jones, Tom Bush, and others with decades of grading expertise. I need help and usually I don't have these guys at my beck and call, so I do like to see that bean on the slab, gives me more confidence in what I am buying.
Best, SH
Especially true with sight-unseen auctions. Even if you have a good eye, you are stuck interpreting the photograph. So, I fail to see the problem in having two professional opinions: TPG and CAC.
@amwldcoin said:
Insult or not it's a fact! CAC only is able to exist because some collectors don't trust their judgement, along with the TPG's loosening their standards....especially on coins that not so long ago would not receive a straight grade which are now given a pass today. There are even some with that glorified bean that IMHO should not receive a straight grade. You will recall I posted a prime example of that here not so long ago. To each their own.
Nice coins for the grade will always sell for more than a sub par example....bean or no bean!
This is all true. I am not Mark Feld, Bill Jones, Tom Bush, and others with decades of grading expertise. I need help and usually I don't have these guys at my beck and call, so I do like to see that bean on the slab, gives me more confidence in what I am buying.
Best, SH
Especially true with sight-unseen auctions. Even if you have a good eye, you are stuck interpreting the photograph. So, I fail to see the problem in having two professional opinions: TPG and CAC.
Why not 3? Or 4? Why stop there?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
@amwldcoin said:
Insult or not it's a fact! CAC only is able to exist because some collectors don't trust their judgement, along with the TPG's loosening their standards....especially on coins that not so long ago would not receive a straight grade which are now given a pass today. There are even some with that glorified bean that IMHO should not receive a straight grade. You will recall I posted a prime example of that here not so long ago. To each their own.
Nice coins for the grade will always sell for more than a sub par example....bean or no bean!
This is all true. I am not Mark Feld, Bill Jones, Tom Bush, and others with decades of grading expertise. I need help and usually I don't have these guys at my beck and call, so I do like to see that bean on the slab, gives me more confidence in what I am buying.
Best, SH
Especially true with sight-unseen auctions. Even if you have a good eye, you are stuck interpreting the photograph. So, I fail to see the problem in having two professional opinions: TPG and CAC.
Why not 3? Or 4? Why stop there?
Agree, if I could get the TPG, CAC, and MF, BJ, TB to weigh in, but it ain't gonna happen. So I will take 2 anytime.......Alas if only those 3 had their own stickers
@amwldcoin said:
Insult or not it's a fact! CAC only is able to exist because some collectors don't trust their judgement, along with the TPG's loosening their standards....especially on coins that not so long ago would not receive a straight grade which are now given a pass today. There are even some with that glorified bean that IMHO should not receive a straight grade. You will recall I posted a prime example of that here not so long ago. To each their own.
Nice coins for the grade will always sell for more than a sub par example....bean or no bean!
This is all true. I am not Mark Feld, Bill Jones, Tom Bush, and others with decades of grading expertise. I need help and usually I don't have these guys at my beck and call, so I do like to see that bean on the slab, gives me more confidence in what I am buying.
Best, SH
Especially true with sight-unseen auctions. Even if you have a good eye, you are stuck interpreting the photograph. So, I fail to see the problem in having two professional opinions: TPG and CAC.
Why not 3? Or 4? Why stop there?
Absolutely! I'll take 5 or 6.
How much would YOU bid, sight-unseen, on a raw coin?
@Goldminers said:
I have a couple "modern" Ike's in MS68+ and 69, I would send in, but of course I am not even allowed to apply to get a membership in this exclusive club, and I don't want to use a third party.
It’s not very exclusive and why aren’t you allowed to apply for a membership?
From what I understand it's not hard to get in. Just sign up and you'll eventually get in. Membership in a national coin club like the BHNC or the LSCC may speed up the process.
@Goldminers said:
I have a couple "modern" Ike's in MS68+ and 69, I would send in, but of course I am not even allowed to apply to get a membership in this exclusive club, and I don't want to use a third party.
It’s not very exclusive and why aren’t you allowed to apply for a
They open and close the membership applications all the time. It's less about exclusivity and more about having an orderly process.
@Goldminers said:
I have a couple "modern" Ike's in MS68+ and 69, I would send in, but of course I am not even allowed to apply to get a membership in this exclusive club, and I don't want to use a third party.
It’s not very exclusive and why aren’t you allowed to apply for a
They open and close the membership applications all the time. It's less about exclusivity and more about having an orderly process.
Thanks. I was not familiar with the process, but I tried several times in the past and it was closed to apply, so membership seemed limited to me. I have mostly moderns anyway, but the Ike post had me thinking about it again.
I certainly wouldn't want to mess with a potential avalanche of modern coins unless I was in it only for the money. CAC's practices tell me that JA functions on a higher plane. Were I he, I wouldn't mess with Ikes either. Without debating matters of personal taste, artistic merit or historical context, there are just too many high grade and mega high grade moderns out there. I would much rather wash dishes for a living than spend my day evaluating 66-70 grade moderns, would be hell on earth.
@ElmerFusterpuck said:
I can actually say I have the latest date on the list, a 1995 doubled die in MS-68 RB with a green sticker!
Good to know
Do you agree with CAC that your coin isn't modern?
It is a generalized description for what coins they do or do not accept. I don't think they want to get deluged with a bunch of 1993 Kennedy Half Dollars or maybe Presidential/Native American Dollar coins.
The true definition of a "Modern Coin" should encompass any coin design that depicts things other than Liberty such as Presidents but then that gets blown out of the water with the 2021 Silver Dollars.
Their business, their choice.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
@Goldminers said:
I have a couple "modern" Ike's in MS68+ and 69, I would send in, but of course I am not even allowed to apply to get a membership in this exclusive club, and I don't want to use a third party.
It’s not very exclusive and why aren’t you allowed to apply for a
They open and close the membership applications all the time. It's less about exclusivity and more about having an orderly process.
Thanks. I was not familiar with the process, but I tried several times in the past and it was closed to apply, so membership seemed limited to me. I have mostly moderns anyway, but the Ike post had me thinking about it again.
Well....there's the oath you gotta take and agree to. "Do you solemnly swear whenever there is a disagreement in our judgement, you agree to always kiss--s that we are always right and you're always wrong......unequivically!" or something like that and then you in like flint!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
A few months ago I proposed in the registry forum that 1998 is the last year of "modern coins" as we call them here. The beginning of the 50 state quarters was the crossing of the Rubicon for the U.S. Mint into the "ULTRAMODERN ERA". After 1998 we get series with multiple reverses for the same obverse in the same year. It happens with Lincoln cents in 2009, Jeff nickels in 2005, all quarters from 1999-2021 ending with Tuskegee.
As I recall former Sec. Mnuchin approved decades more of these constant design changes in our ultramodern quarters starting next year. He saw the success of the series in financial terms for the mint. It was a no-brainer to continue cranking out what consumers collect, especially with the economic values reflected in his leadership.
@CopperWire said:
A few months ago I proposed in the registry forum that 1998 is the last year of "modern coins" as we call them here. The beginning of the 50 state quarters was the crossing of the Rubicon for the U.S. Mint into the "ULTRAMODERN ERA". After 1998 we get series with multiple reverses for the same obverse in the same year. It happens with Lincoln cents in 2009, Jeff nickels in 2005, all quarters from 1999-2021 ending with Tuskegee.
As I recall former Sec. Mnuchin approved decades more of these constant design changes in our ultramodern quarters starting next year. He saw the success of the series in financial terms for the mint. It was a no-brainer to continue cranking out what consumers collect, especially with the economic values reflected in his leadership.
I guess we could subdivide moderns into classic moderns and ultra moderns (or even fringe moderns).
For me it's pretty simple: If it doesn't contain precious metal (or primarily copper), it's modern! (Not really sure where I draw the line with nickels! ) I'm speaking of US circulating issues, not collector specialty items.
I even had a discussion with JA last month about some of the pre 1965 coins that CAC will not currently sticker. I explained that someday they will sticker 1950 to 1964 Washington proof quarters. I was not advocating that CAC should or should not. After some thought, he agreed that it was quite possible..
@oreville said:
I even had a discussion with JA last month about some of the pre 1965 coins that CAC will not currently sticker. I explained that someday they will sticker 1950 to 1964 Washington proof quarters. I was not advocating that CAC should or should not. After some thought, he agreed that it was quite possible..
Does it come down to what areas CAC wishes to make a market in?
@oreville said:
JA's future grandchild will not think 1999 dated coins are moderns.
In general, I wonder if the definition of modern is subjective and relative to when one was born? I wonder if even today's YNs consider 1999 to be modern.
PCGS considers all US coins after 1965 to be considered "Modern" on their grading submission forms. The modern silver registry set only allows coins from 1971-date, which includes the Ike silvers.
I guess people 55 and under are modern, but those over 55 are classics
@oreville said:
I even had a discussion with JA last month about some of the pre 1965 coins that CAC will not currently sticker. I explained that someday they will sticker 1950 to 1964 Washington proof quarters. I was not advocating that CAC should or should not. After some thought, he agreed that it was quite possible..
Does it come down to what areas CAC wishes to make a market in?
No, it doesn’t. Think about all the coin types they accept. As just a few examples, do you think they wish to make markets in common date M64 and lower grade Walkers, Morgan’s, Peace dollars and gold type coins?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
Especially true with sight-unseen auctions. Even if you have a good eye, you are stuck interpreting the photograph. So, I fail to see the problem in having two professional opinions: TPG and CAC.
Why not 3? Or 4? Why stop there?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Agree, if I could get the TPG, CAC, and MF, BJ, TB to weigh in, but it ain't gonna happen. So I will take 2 anytime.......Alas if only those 3 had their own stickers
I'm going to speculate that they accept Eisenhowers because it marks the end of the large dollar era.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Absolutely! I'll take 5 or 6.
How much would YOU bid, sight-unseen, on a raw coin?
I had seen a few circulated Eisenhower dollars but I've never seen ASE in circulation. Could this be the reason for CAC's acceptance of Ike dollar?
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
From what I understand it's not hard to get in. Just sign up and you'll eventually get in. Membership in a national coin club like the BHNC or the LSCC may speed up the process.
They open and close the membership applications all the time. It's less about exclusivity and more about having an orderly process.
I collect mostly 1934 and later silver dimes, and don't mind too much that CAC isn't interested in Roosevelts. I assume they're focused for reasons.
Thanks. I was not familiar with the process, but I tried several times in the past and it was closed to apply, so membership seemed limited to me. I have mostly moderns anyway, but the Ike post had me thinking about it again.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I certainly wouldn't want to mess with a potential avalanche of modern coins unless I was in it only for the money. CAC's practices tell me that JA functions on a higher plane. Were I he, I wouldn't mess with Ikes either. Without debating matters of personal taste, artistic merit or historical context, there are just too many high grade and mega high grade moderns out there. I would much rather wash dishes for a living than spend my day evaluating 66-70 grade moderns, would be hell on earth.
From my limited experience obtaining a Green Bean on an Ike is extremely difficult, I do agree with the service.
There have only been 7 Ike's so far who made the Gold Bean, of that number only 4 are Clad the other 3 are Silver.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around why this one did not get the ok, it has the most amazing strike almost Cameo of any Ike I've encountered.
It is a generalized description for what coins they do or do not accept. I don't think they want to get deluged with a bunch of 1993 Kennedy Half Dollars or maybe Presidential/Native American Dollar coins.
The true definition of a "Modern Coin" should encompass any coin design that depicts things other than Liberty such as Presidents but then that gets blown out of the water with the 2021 Silver Dollars.
Their business, their choice.
The name is LEE!
Well....there's the oath you gotta take and agree to. "Do you solemnly swear whenever there is a disagreement in our judgement, you agree to always kiss--s that we are always right and you're always wrong......unequivically!" or something like that and then you in like flint!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Looks like it needs resubmitted.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Here's a green bean I just ran across.
1971 Eisenhower Dollar - PCGS MS64 CAC POP 1/7/55
A few months ago I proposed in the registry forum that 1998 is the last year of "modern coins" as we call them here. The beginning of the 50 state quarters was the crossing of the Rubicon for the U.S. Mint into the "ULTRAMODERN ERA". After 1998 we get series with multiple reverses for the same obverse in the same year. It happens with Lincoln cents in 2009, Jeff nickels in 2005, all quarters from 1999-2021 ending with Tuskegee.
As I recall former Sec. Mnuchin approved decades more of these constant design changes in our ultramodern quarters starting next year. He saw the success of the series in financial terms for the mint. It was a no-brainer to continue cranking out what consumers collect, especially with the economic values reflected in his leadership.
I guess we could subdivide moderns into classic moderns and ultra moderns (or even fringe moderns).
@cameonut2011 I like that idea, a subdivide!
For me it's pretty simple: If it doesn't contain precious metal (or primarily copper), it's modern! (Not really sure where I draw the line with nickels!
) I'm speaking of US circulating issues, not collector specialty items.
JA's future grandchild will not think 1999 dated coins are moderns.
I even had a discussion with JA last month about some of the pre 1965 coins that CAC will not currently sticker. I explained that someday they will sticker 1950 to 1964 Washington proof quarters. I was not advocating that CAC should or should not. After some thought, he agreed that it was quite possible..
Does it come down to what areas CAC wishes to make a market in?
In general, I wonder if the definition of modern is subjective and relative to when one was born? I wonder if even today's YNs consider 1999 to be modern.
PCGS considers all US coins after 1965 to be considered "Modern" on their grading submission forms. The modern silver registry set only allows coins from 1971-date, which includes the Ike silvers.
I guess people 55 and under are modern, but those over 55 are classics
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
No, it doesn’t. Think about all the coin types they accept. As just a few examples, do you think they wish to make markets in common date M64 and lower grade Walkers, Morgan’s, Peace dollars and gold type coins?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
They don’t do Colonials either. They are focused on there they feel they can competently add value.
Latin American Collection
Factually they state on a continuing basis that CAC coins bring premium pricing.
Therefore, confident in their expertise, they have chosen Ike dollars for CAC evaluation. And I am pretty sure they will bring premium pricing..
And they know it will influence dealing and trading in the marketplace.
I do not see the issue here. It is the prerogative of the principle(s) to choose which series is relevant.
A market/prices are contained/supported by thousands of collectors, not just a couple of millionaires.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Just speculating, but perhaps if they broaden the scope too much it would affect serviceability.