@HATTRICK said:
This is getting so far out of hand, is growing and infringing on many buyers rights to free comexceptmerce. This is my point and why government intervention is inevitable. Anyway the Mint is a government entity and will be a leader in the effort to stamp out bots.
Except that every single person in this thread has used a bot. There's nothing wrong with bots (criminal hacking bots excluded) and it is nearly impossible to draw lines.
Many of you folks want your sniping bots and your shopping bots but are mad when someone uses a bot that gets in your way.
So many proud snipers in these parts who don't think of themselves a interfering in commerce. Yet if I were to set up a bot to buy ONE, JUST ONE, Mint coin while I'm at work and unavailable, the government should get involved.
I have never used a bot or any link to one. Sign on to the Mint site with my user name and password enter allowed HHL and hit the red box. I was able to score on every Morgan, Peace and Type 2 release with minimal hassle. Took a few repeats to check out but still scored.
Jmlanzaf,
While you post some good information, so many of your count boosting posts are BS and lame excuses.
P.S. No need to show what you are really about as I will not waste any time replying to any of your posts.
Have a nice day
And what are you about when you resort to insults? I haven't insulted anyone. I'm asking people to think beyond the "bot". Bots are useful scripts. I don't see how the government is going to ban some and not the others. That was my original point until everyone got defensive.
@jmlanzaf said:
Bots don't bypass the HHL, they just execute the purchase faster.
So do people with a 1 Gig connection. Not fair to people with slow internet. The mint needs to make everybody connect via dialup on AOL with a 2400 baud modem.
Lol.
Don't forget the time zone problem. And the problem for people that work. [Bot would help those people. ]
I'll talk to you since everyone else got defensive. Lol. I just don't know how you could legislate against Bots without causing a problem for proxy bidding, Sniping, scheduled listings, etc.
You want to solve the problem, just remove the profit motive or enforce the HHL better. The bot is just a tool.
I could go for bots being interfering with the mint’s operations and rules,
But
That’s the government.
For someone like Nike, it’s their problem. Nike is leaving money on the table if they are selling limited edition shoes priced too low. Although I have deep sympathy with those shut out of shoe purchases by bots. The private sector here needs to figure it out on their own.
@jmlanzaf said:
You want to solve the problem, just remove the profit motive or enforce the HHL better. The bot is just a tool.
You can't solve the problem without identifying it. And the problem is- some people who want to order a coin can't because someone else got it first. But the first guy can't get one without depriving the second guy of his because of the limited number available. So what's needed is a limited edition where everybody who wants one gets one. It's not really a "limited edition" (unless "limited to everybody who wants one" is a thing) but as long as everybody's a winner, it's all good. Maybe there should be trophies, too.
Of course, this means the price drops after the coins are issued, since everyone who wants one has one. And mint issues being worth less than issue price is also a regularly reported problem. And the solution to that is... ?
Maybe the solution is not posting the mintage limit until the day of release so as to keep the buyers clubs at least off balance?
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@jmlanzaf said:
Except that every single person in this thread has used a bot.
Saying that everyone uses or has used a bot makes me think you think that is not uncommon because you use one yourself.
yes. As does anyone who uses Facebook, cnn.com, google, eBay, Schwab...but now I'm just repeating myself. I have a dozen saved searches on eBay. That's me using a bot a dozen times per day!
I wish I had a shopping bot so I could just keep working instead of banging on my keyboard every time the Mint releases something. Sadly, it's just me with 3 devices and an ultrafast internet connection...
@Mgarmy said:
Maybe the solution is not posting the mintage limit until the day of release so as to keep the buyers clubs at least off balance?
I still think the easiest solution to implement is an auction with an HHL. If there is no secondary market value for them, what shoppers' club is going to line up to buy them?
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@jmlanzaf said:
You want to solve the problem, just remove the profit motive or enforce the HHL better. The bot is just a tool.
You can't solve the problem without identifying it. And the problem is- some people who want to order a coin can't because someone else got it first. But the first guy can't get one without depriving the second guy of his because of the limited number available. So what's needed is a limited edition where everybody who wants one gets one. It's not really a "limited edition" (unless "limited to everybody who wants one" is a thing) but as long as everybody's a winner, it's all good. Maybe there should be trophies, too.
Of course, this means the price drops after the coins are issued, since everyone who wants one has one. And mint issues being worth less than issue price is also a regularly reported problem. And the solution to that is... ?
... Money back guarantee of satisfaction!
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The answer to bots at the usmint is mint to demand.
When an item sells out in 12 minutes who has time to jump through hoops?
The mint should have a fixed order period (such as one or two weeks) and then mint just enough coins to fill all the orders. That way everyone who wants a coin will have a chance to buy it. The mint shouldn't be in the lottery business with ridiculously low mintages and quick sell outs.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@jmlanzaf.... Thank you for that link. Obviously, we have all used bots in some form... I did not realize many of those functions were considered bots. I have never used a sniping bot or alert bots... After understanding what bots are - everything that they are - I can see the difficulty in controlling them in situations such as the Mint offerings when offerings are limited. So, like so very many things in life, another tool that is useful, but can be used for evil purposes. Cheers, RickO
@ricko said: @jmlanzaf.... Thank you for that link. Obviously, we have all used bots in some form... I did not realize many of those functions were considered bots. I have never used a sniping bot or alert bots... After understanding what bots are - everything that they are - I can see the difficulty in controlling them in situations such as the Mint offerings when offerings are limited. So, like so very many things in life, another tool that is useful, but can be used for evil purposes. Cheers, RickO
Yes, I think that summarizes it pretty well. I think to make it about the "bots" risks missing the boat on structural changes in the way the Mint distributes.
welcome to the real world where everyone is looking for a advantage over others, if there is a advantage to be had people will take it and really nothing can be done about basic human nature of wanting to be the first one to have something others want
Check out my coins for sale at the link below mid-priced (read carefully)
Those of us who read forums like this are a hundred times smarter about the coin marketplace than the people employing bots to game the shoe, event ticket, and now the coin business.
We (collectors and dealers alike) know immediately when a coin is put on the Mint schedule that it is a coin that we want for our collection or our inventory. Then the Mint announces a mintage limit for that upcoming product and suddenly every non-numismatic type sees that it is a no-brain decision to try to get them first and in volume. Then chaos ensues on release day.
If the Mint didn’t announce the mintage limit, thus making it an obviously profitable use of these bot tools, they wouldn’t be used against us.
Making your own bot is surprisingly simple with a Macro Recorder. You just record yourself doing the task and run the macro next time, or you can schedule the macro to run automatically/periodically and you don't even need to be there. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
Comments
And what are you about when you resort to insults? I haven't insulted anyone. I'm asking people to think beyond the "bot". Bots are useful scripts. I don't see how the government is going to ban some and not the others. That was my original point until everyone got defensive.
Lol.
Don't forget the time zone problem. And the problem for people that work. [Bot would help those people. ]
I'll talk to you since everyone else got defensive. Lol. I just don't know how you could legislate against Bots without causing a problem for proxy bidding, Sniping, scheduled listings, etc.
You want to solve the problem, just remove the profit motive or enforce the HHL better. The bot is just a tool.
And this will shock people
I could go for bots being interfering with the mint’s operations and rules,
But
That’s the government.
For someone like Nike, it’s their problem. Nike is leaving money on the table if they are selling limited edition shoes priced too low. Although I have deep sympathy with those shut out of shoe purchases by bots. The private sector here needs to figure it out on their own.
You can't solve the problem without identifying it. And the problem is- some people who want to order a coin can't because someone else got it first. But the first guy can't get one without depriving the second guy of his because of the limited number available. So what's needed is a limited edition where everybody who wants one gets one. It's not really a "limited edition" (unless "limited to everybody who wants one" is a thing) but as long as everybody's a winner, it's all good. Maybe there should be trophies, too.
Of course, this means the price drops after the coins are issued, since everyone who wants one has one. And mint issues being worth less than issue price is also a regularly reported problem. And the solution to that is... ?
Saying that everyone uses or has used a bot makes me think you think that is not uncommon because you use one yourself.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
Maybe the solution is not posting the mintage limit until the day of release so as to keep the buyers clubs at least off balance?
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
yes. As does anyone who uses Facebook, cnn.com, google, eBay, Schwab...but now I'm just repeating myself. I have a dozen saved searches on eBay. That's me using a bot a dozen times per day!
I wish I had a shopping bot so I could just keep working instead of banging on my keyboard every time the Mint releases something. Sadly, it's just me with 3 devices and an ultrafast internet connection...
I still think the easiest solution to implement is an auction with an HHL. If there is no secondary market value for them, what shoppers' club is going to line up to buy them?
True
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
... Money back guarantee of satisfaction!
The mint should have a fixed order period (such as one or two weeks) and then mint just enough coins to fill all the orders. That way everyone who wants a coin will have a chance to buy it. The mint shouldn't be in the lottery business with ridiculously low mintages and quick sell outs.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Same here.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
They just need to use more captcha's like this one....
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
@jmlanzaf.... Thank you for that link. Obviously, we have all used bots in some form... I did not realize many of those functions were considered bots. I have never used a sniping bot or alert bots... After understanding what bots are - everything that they are - I can see the difficulty in controlling them in situations such as the Mint offerings when offerings are limited. So, like so very many things in life, another tool that is useful, but can be used for evil purposes. Cheers, RickO
Yes, I think that summarizes it pretty well. I think to make it about the "bots" risks missing the boat on structural changes in the way the Mint distributes.
welcome to the real world where everyone is looking for a advantage over others, if there is a advantage to be had people will take it and really nothing can be done about basic human nature of wanting to be the first one to have something others want
Check out my coins for sale at the link below mid-priced (read carefully)
** https://photos.app.goo.gl/VLi1NBeJuE7UTkCE7**
Those of us who read forums like this are a hundred times smarter about the coin marketplace than the people employing bots to game the shoe, event ticket, and now the coin business.
We (collectors and dealers alike) know immediately when a coin is put on the Mint schedule that it is a coin that we want for our collection or our inventory. Then the Mint announces a mintage limit for that upcoming product and suddenly every non-numismatic type sees that it is a no-brain decision to try to get them first and in volume. Then chaos ensues on release day.
If the Mint didn’t announce the mintage limit, thus making it an obviously profitable use of these bot tools, they wouldn’t be used against us.
A wanna Wafflebot .....
It seems this is not illegal.
Making your own bot is surprisingly simple with a Macro Recorder. You just record yourself doing the task and run the macro next time, or you can schedule the macro to run automatically/periodically and you don't even need to be there. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
There has already been a request from a moderator to not post these discussions following the closed thread yesterday.