PLEASE READ - Buy, Sell, & Trade
PCGS_Moderator
Posts: 271 mod
We've received a lot of input on this and want to thank everyone for taking the time to help out fellow forum members with all the tips and advice.
The first thing we would like to point out is that this is a forum for collectors, and the biggest reason we exist is for collectors to come together and share information by asking and answering questions of folks with similar interests and hobbies. We did not set out to be a marketplace, eBay, or Etsy. We do, however, offer a Buy, Sell, and Trade thread for folks to connect and Buy, Sell, and Trade as they see fit.
Please understand what the Buy, Sell, and Trade part of the forum comes down to is COMMUNICATION. All we can do is advise how folks communicate in these situations. It is totally up to the two people discussing any particular transaction how that will end up. Collectors Universe assumes no liability in the event of either party failing to fulfill their commitment to the other party. Participants should realize there is always some risk when conducting financial transactions with an unknown party, and it is each party's responsibility to determine their own level of risk taking.
Here are some best practices:
- Use a payment method that has buyer and seller protection.
- Never pay by PayPal Friends & Family. It is worth paying the seller the extra 3% for protection and peace of mind.
- Don't publicly share any personal information such as address, phone number, or email.
- Don't interact or deal with any user that publicly shares any personal information such as address, phone number, or email.
- Don't interact or deal with any user that is going through a third party.
- Research the item you are interested in. If a user is offering a coin, look it up on other auction sites.
- Use common sense, if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
These are not rules, these are simply guidelines. You are ultimately responsible for the actions and decisions you make.
Be kind to each other, and happy collecting!
Comments
well watch out for people who just joined who send a PM saying they have coins and such to sell
1997-present
Do not use PayPal family and friends. Use regular PayPal, to get your money back, just in case you get scammed.
100 forum posts and not just ----!!!, Oh I like it. Mod approval based on mods opinion of new forum member. Might take a week or a month or a year to get to 100 but the forum would be a lot safer.
Otherwise they can sell on eBay.
US Militaria Forum uses this rule and there is no scamming.
I would like advice on this. I posted awhile back and believe that who I’ve spoken to is legit (obviously, as they came highly recommended and checked out), but I am very new and very confused about a lot of things and I feel like I’m a prime target for someone to scam. AGAIN, I do not believe who I have spoken to is a scammer, as they have been referred by many on here. Having said that, I would like to understand how to look for this in the future. Until this post, I didn’t even know anyone could scam someone on here. I was under the impression this forum was PCGS members and coin lovers only? I guess that doesn’t necessarily weed out the sketchy, though.
The scam I fell for is the one where a new user sent me a PM saying he had a friend who had the coin(s) I wanted to buy and gave me the email of that person to contact.
I took the bait and emailed the 3rd party who worked out a deal.
Fortunately, I paid by PayPal but not by Friends and Family so I was protected when I contacted PayPal to file a fraud claim and I received a full refund.
Lessons learned is never respond to that type of PM and never pay by PayPal Friends and Family. It is worth paying the seller the extra 3% for protection and Peace of mind😎
A restriction of 100 or more post is wrong. The new members will never get there. You will turn this into Facebook. Each member has to be there own protection. You don't answer unsolicited phone calls/ Phone calls not in your phone book. Check the person out before you make a transaction. Answering unsolicited emails is your decision is not what the forum can stop. Let us look to a solution that helps all of us,not just aimed at handicapping the new members. I treat members the way I want to be treated. If there was a 100 post restriction when you joined the forum, how would that have affected you then?
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
New buyers/sellers send money or coin first.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
very simple:
a new member has to prove themselves first with appropriate contributions on the forum
then regular paypal only.
There is always a way for our host to set up an escrow system for amounts over $ 100??
If there is a supported and proven claim a warning is being issued to the offender
A second claim is blocked for life.
OR even better, if the offense is a criminal or postal offense, get a Police or postal investigation action going.
just saying as I got taken by a south east Asian out of Seattle a couple of years ago.
H
if they are selling, request picture over piece of paper showing their name and todays date.
If something about the deal sounds even a little "off" don't go through with it. Scammers have a way of giving themselves away.
It's really simple. New members send the coins first to established members before being paid. People trusted me early on because of my avatar, but for most, that's is all there is to it.
New member to new member, the scams might cancel each other out...not sure how it could work there.
Please do not attempt to regulate the BST. It's not needed with a little common sense.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
the best idea if you think it's a scam then don't do the deal simple and easy
one has to be their own judge on such matters no amount of safety nets or anything like that will take the place of following your own judgement
1997-present
IMO:
Do not allow direct emails to a third party as in "this is not my coin but so and so has it and can be reached thru this email link".
No mass mailings, keep the deal between the original buyer and the seller.
New sellers and buyers should have a waiting period of 30 days before they can utilize BST.
New members should also be active on the forums.
Create an automatic log out for non-active use after 30 minutes which would require the member to re-sign in each time.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
As long as this message board exists scams will continue to proliferate. This mode of communication is from a different era in humanity, the long forgotten late 90's and early 2000s. You can't secure something that needs more than a retrofit. Caveat emptor seems like the best advice, if you get scammed online it is because you aren't securing yourself in a modern fashion.
I started getting e-mails from a person responding to a WTB on BST, when I pressed her for forum ID she said a friend of hers is on the forum and I asked for his id and she said "scott512" I would not do any transaction with her but looks like he just signed up today and thought I would pass this along
Al
She said her name was Debra Bandinelli email is debrabandinelli64@gmail.com
And there is one thing right there.
Do not post phone numbers or emails in the Forum AnyWhere.
I’m not sure but if the user has the option to display their email on the profile… take that ability away immediately.
Option is to let members see e-mail or not, I know have mine set to not allow users to see e-mail
Al
Do not buy from people who claim they use bots to get around imposed HHL on US Mint coins. If they scam the Mint they will not think twice about scamming you.
This likely opens up the host to liability, something they would rightfully like to avoid.
Sticky suggestions:
All transactions are between the two parties and Collectors Universe assumes no liability in the event of either party failing to fulfill their commitment to the other party. Participants should realize there is always some risk when conducting financial transactions with an unknown party and it is each party's responsibility to determine their own level of risk taking.
BST Rules:
*The first page of BST listings is prime real estate and is to be shared. Posters are limited to one active "Buy," one active "Sell," and one active "Trade" listing at a time on the first page of listings. Posters will not bump their BST listing more than once a day and never when it currently appears on the first page of listings.
To help minimize risk, transacting parties are encouraged to:
set an automatic minimum post count before a "new" member is allowed to PM another member. This will discourage the current email scammer and at the same time restrict a "new" user who does post to the BST from contacting or replying to another member, effectively shutting them down on the BST until minimum number of posts have been reached.
Search Ebay for the coin they claim they are selling. I was offered a coin and then searched Ebay for it and found the exact coin. The person took the photo and used it to try and scam me.
I like the 100 post minimum to buy or sell. It gets rid of the drive by scammers.
.
i agree. never ceases to amaze me that people complain about some level of fees in a transaction; but for that level of protection, the cost is almost impossible to beat. maybe a couple plans for high-volume shippers with the insurance companies handling coins.
i think sharing tips about how to avoid getting scammed is essential but also, identifying scamming methods to help others how to recognize risky/red flag inquiries/behavior.
i presume the riskiest of the scams is for someone purporting to be selling something, take payment but ship nothing.
not sure (don't recall) how to handle cc chargebacks but there have been many a thread/post on the subject here.
how can one avoid coins that may be stolen? simply avoid doing business with people we don't know isn't really a long-term viable option. ive been doing business with a record number of people on the bay with 0 feedback, astonishingly enough. (i think there are services/sites that people can use to search for stuff across the net and will purchase the item on behalf of a buyer.)
if selling to someone new, set everything out and take a picture or it with a printed out communication or the like, plus a shipping label. (i do this with pcgs shipments. coins/label/form in one image (if possible))
How about sellers are required to post a photo of the items for sale along with a piece of paper listing their forum name and the date of the post, to show that they actually possess the items?
Use regular PayPal to pay for coins. If you don't receive the coins, you can get your money back. If sellers want to use the forum to sell coins, require them to be a paid member of PCGS. Sellers could limit the buyers by reference.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
PCGS should set up some kind of sting operation along with the FBI to catch the scammers red handed and land them in prison where they belong.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
one way to invite a BST scammer into your life:
We need a way to stop the scammer and not silence the new member.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
but, in the cases of the email scam the scammer appears to always be a new member returning with a new ID once banned. Proposal to restrict new members is a way of limiting their BST privilege not silencing them.
@derryb my question to you is when you were a new member if you had a restriction like what you're proposing how would that have affected you and what would have been your thoughts of these restrictions at that time. Let's concentrate on scammer's not the members. Once again when does a new member lose the Newbe tag and become a seasoned veteran?
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
My above suggestion for the "sticky" put no restrictions of new sellers. I later responded to those calling for a 'minimum number of posts restriction before posting on the BST' with a suggestion that the restriction be put on a new member's ability to Private Message until reaching a certain post count. Probably wise to also include a minimum time as a member since post count can be quickly accomplished if needed to facilitate a scam. One has to understand that the greatest risk on the BST involves a transaction with a "newer" member. For this reason it is understandable to put some type of limitation on new members when it comes to the BST.
For the protection of forum members the BST should not be a place where anyone can drop in to make a sale. It is my understanding that it's purpose is to provide members a place to trade with each other. We should all welcome requirements that make it a safe place to trade. While anyone can become a member with literally no requirements, a higher standard should be in place before one can become a trading partner.
I started on the BST selling items to what appeared (and turned out) to be reputable buyers with me shipping before receiving payment. I took the precaution of checking references and insisting on my payment be via paypal protection. I refused to ship first to sellers who were also new to the forum.
A seller, even a newbie, removes risk by insisting on a PP protected payment. A new seller loses the "newbie tag"
once he has established himself with good references and can find buyers willing to pay before shipment. Track record is paramount to establishing trust. New sellers have to work to create that track record and it's resulting level of trust.
There was a version of the forum software that once displayed an automated title under a users avatar. If our host does establish some minimum requirement before a "newbie" can post on the BST maybe it will be possible to automatically show "Newbie" under his/her avatar until set requirements have been met. This will aid in letting the newbie know the restrictions have been lifted.
@derryb thank you for explaining how you first started buying and selling on the buy sell trade forum. Your method is the same as I use today when I asked thebuyer to wait until he's received the check from me before he ships the item to me. When I'm the seller I basically do the same thing I ship the item to the buyer and ask the buyer to wait to ship the the payment by mail to me after he good with the package I sent him. I'm comfortable doing this and it appears that the buyer and seller that I deal with is comfortable with that too. I'd like to think that everyone on this forum treats others the way they want to be treated. I know this is the case with you and me because I did an early deal with you and I am extremely happy with the transaction. Derryb, thanks again for working with me on BST.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
Any solutions to BST scams should not place an undue burden on the moderators. I’m sure this is just a collateral duty for them. Remember PCGS is in business to grade coins. All these forums are provided to us for free. So let’s not create more undue hardship and work for the moderators. We will give them the ideas to prevent scams. They can implement the rules. And we can flag any violations when they occur.
You are correct, someone else said it, my post has been corrected.
Not that I do much trading on here, but sadly I would only deal with established members...
My YouTube Channel
PM sent
While established members are less risky, there are been instances of established members/dealers scamming people. So it's not fool proof.
you can't make if fool proof, it's about reducing risk
Use paypal, but not "friends and family". Don't be pennywise and pound foolish.
I am new here. For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t even begin to think about selling a coin on here until I have gained enough “respect” (for lack of a better term) from the board so that people know I am legitimate. Now, with that, I am also clueless and had no idea people bought and sold on here, so I guess my opinion is a bit pointless, but it’s coming from a place of now realizing that’s an option.
For me, I will probably just do any buying and/or selling through certified dealers, PCGS auctions, etc., but I also don’t exactly have experience nor a sweet collection.
In the past, I used to deal in a different collectible that I no longer have an association with. I was brought on a few years later as one of the moderators of the forum. There were no rules set in place for buying/selling. It was a free for all and it became a nightmare. I recommended a minimum post per user prior to trade and no one agreed. I genuinely think that would have helped. It takes a special type of jerk to want to take the time to post 50-100 times on a board to scam someone. Not that the post minimum would totally solve the problem, but I think it would help. I find it unsettling to see someone sign up solely to sell. Just my 2 cents.
Asking a seller to just ship off something to someone they don't know without payment is just asking for more potential problems. Once the would be buyer has the item in hand it could then be used as a bargaining chip to renegotiate the agreed price, possible inferior coin swap for a return, etc. This is supposed to be a discussion forum, not eBay and not an approval service. My thoughts? Remove the BST. More trouble than it's worth; the bad element has discovered it and it exposes our host to potential liability for no real gain. If CU is determined to keep it, I agree with 100 posts minimum before being allowed to use BST, no third party deals and use of PayPal funded by a credit card for max protection.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I just signed on a few minutes ago then started reading the scammer caution post. Well I very well fit a couple items posted and I am not a scammer. I am looking for knowledge and advise for myself and friend. My friend is not interested and nor am I in selling coins merely looking to see value to leave our grand children.
I am 63 years old and my friend is a touch older. If I have created caution what so ever please advise and disregard my application and will ask of you no more
Sincerely
Dan
Common sense should prevail. I send paypal friends payment to posters I know well.
@Danielbastien Welcome to the forum!
Everyone here started as a new member, stick around and enjoy the site.
Dozens of new members join every day.
@Danielbastien Hello, and welcome! I am very new and understand how you feel. If anything, I have found this forum to be a place that’s very helpful. I can understand why you might be gunshy, but please don’t let this thread keep you from posting and learning. There are really solid people on here. I have learned a lot from them, and as much as at has been intimidating to me, I keep coming back because everyone has been very kind.
After more thought, the BST needs no controls, they likely increase our hosts exposure to liability. Any anonymous member here should be free to transact with any other anonymous member. Our host's role on the BST should be to put a sticky at the top with a warning of the risks and steps that can be taken to minimize that risk.
100 posts before buying and selling would cut down the number of attempted scammers. They are looking for some quick, easy bucks and most, I think, wouldn’t have the patience to meet the qualification.
The funny one in my book is the “buyer” who wants to examine the coin before deciding whether to buy it. Those must think the rest of us are exceptionally stupid.
@derrtb I could not agree with you more. We all are responsible to ensure that we verify who we are buying from or selling to. If we don't try to protect our self, we can only shoulder the blame. We should not expect others to do what we won't do!
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
Mario Montgomery