2021 D Morgan PL NEW PICTURE ADDED
OLC
Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
1
OLC
Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
OLC
Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
Comments
The look different in the photographs but it's hard to tell if the difference is due to lighting and/or the angle in which the photographs were taken. The first looks more proof like.
It does look like it has shine
I don’t think it’s enough for a pl designation
The burnished surface strike is not able to generate a true PL ... they don’t polish the fields and these modern dies do not wear down in the same way - so a 2021 PL from this series is NOT possible
Here are the side by sides.
I had one of the Morgan issues with a bit of a shine to it. The shine was good enough for pics.
now that I see it straight on, perhaps it is worthwhile to measure the mirror.
Man if some of these did get the designation it would create quite the market
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
There is “reconsideration service”
You’ll want to use that. If the coin doesn’t get the PL, then important things like First Day of Issue and First Strike and the MS 70 grade … even the autograph… are not lost.
I have no idea if gaining the PL designation will mean the loss of the autograph. I would get an answer from PCGS in writing.
different lighting angle used for each coin? In hand they likely look the same.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Uh... based on what? There's 2 different sets of photos including a side by side???
how do you get the same finish as an ASE to reflect an arm/hand?
value add for PL is unknown as this topic will have people looking at all their coins.
population of PL will matter.
what an auction will hit will also depend upon how first it is.
it is extremely likely that a PL designation will bring much more than the autograph
Because the coin on the right is darker it appears the side by side pic is actually two different pics next to each other. It is this darkness that makes the coin appear to be PL. If both coins are in the same pic then the coin on the right looks almost like an annealed planchet.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Here’s some different angles on an ase. Seems angle does effect the picture
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
i guess so
That certainly is intriguing.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Of course it does. But we have no evidence for such a difference in the OPs photos.
Ok. I presented an example. We have no evidence of it not being. Just a dang possibility. 😉
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Of course it is. But I believe the OP has the coins in hand. I'm not sure why we are starting with assumption that he's deceiving us when at least one other forum member has noted a similar difference.
[I'd also note that PCGS has chosen to NOT designate it as PL.]
JM. No one is flinging words around like “deceiving “. Relax my friend. 😉
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
investigation is good right?
I should have checked my morgans
Not explicitly. But implicitly.
or deplicitly.
If you're implicicating that I am calling "deception," you are being paranoid. chill.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
when a single light source is used for a pic of more than one coin it is not unusual for one or more of the coins to appear brighter than others. In the sided by side pic note how much brighter the autograph ink is for the brighter coin.
The only difference between the two coins pictured is the darkness of the possibly PL coin. Otherwise they both have the same amount of PLness.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
I tried to go to the other end of the spectrum and flip flop the coins and took it to the extreme the other way.
Disagree.
Look at the very first picture. You can see a reflection on the coin surface. That does not happen with the "normal" surface.
The images of the individual coins where taken in the same light. They are the best examples. The original pictures are the best representation of the coins. I fully admit that it is hard to get a accurate representation when the coins are side by side. I realize I am a terrible photographer.
See how the light reflects in the signature of the first image.
When the 2010 5 oz coins came out there was not a PL or a DMPL coin at first. It took awhile. I remember sending numerous coins in to be regraded once PCGS decided they would give out the designation.. I am not trying to deceive anyone with my limited photography skills. I am just trying to throw it out there and hopefully PCGS will consider giving the PL designation to some coins. Maybe they have already looked at this and said no way and maybe they haven't. What do I gain by trying to deceive people with deceptive pictures?
I see it. It's definitely more reflective. Hard to tell whether it's enough to be PL.
no one is accusing any one of deception. simply trying to explain how lighting can affect an image, especially when it comes to PL.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Just FYI In hand they don't look the same.
It's all good.
It was not two different photos with different angles. They don't look the same in hand.
in hand, is one coin darker than the other?
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
I have a 2021-D just like the one the shown. Sent to NGC to assess for PL; coming back a straight 70.
I’ll post when it returns. Just the same as described just as PL as any 5oz puck and reflective fields.
Looks like the TPGs are not ready to PL some of these Morgan’s
It does seem to be with the Denver’s
Like you are trying to explain angles make a lot of difference. If I look at the coin straight on yes it does look darker than the other coin at the exact same angle. If I hold both of them at say a 60 degree angle they both look pretty close to the same color but the one is shinier then the other at the same angle. I have held in my hands 100's of 5oz MS,PL and DMPL coins. They are different. I have also owned SP70 5oz coins and Light Satin 5oz coins and they are different. I have in my possession numerous different Morgan coins Graded and ungraded and this coin is distinctly different. Don't know if it would qualify as PL. Never had heard of the term Light Satin Finish at one point time because it didn't exist. Maybe the finish on this coin will end up with a name for it's finish at some point in time. Maybe not. I also believe that this finish may be fairly common. I have maybe seen 60 D Mint Mark Morgans 4 of them have had this type of finish. One I gave to a buddy.. One I sold and it was pretty poor quality. One is in @ PCGS right now. I don't think it was as distinct of difference as this graded coin I have that I noticed today.
If the coin did possess PL fields obv and rev I'm guessing the grading services would be far more likely to give one of these issues a PL designation if it had some cameo contrast, even if it was only mildly semi PL. If actually PL at all, the pictured coin has the appearance of a gray brilliant PL similar to the 20th century late date Morgan dollars.
Also, what is that distracting silver scribbling on the holder?? It looks like an 8 yr old was playing with magic markers.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
On the other hand.....maybe it's a branch mint proof,
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
@OLC can you photograph it next to something with print to see if it will reflect the print?
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I tried to photo but I am getting too much reflection off the holder that makes it look like its on the coin. The coin is not a DMPL for sure.
2019 Denver put out a bunch of PL from uncirculated set and explore and discover set. Huge difference. These are not close. Different shade. We shall see now. Ngc and pcgs both certified the 2019pL’s.
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The two coins certainly appear to have a different finish when compared together. Might be worth a reconsideration effort. It will depend on the degree of difference/reflectivity. Good luck, let us know what you decide. Cheers, RickO
I just didn’t think coins with a “burnished” surface strike would generate a PL.
And to hear this about the 5oz coins is new to me as well - do you mean the P mint 5 oz coins or the bullion ones? The P mint have a surface similar to the 2021 Morgan’s so I’ll have to look that up.
Love this message board I learn a lot from you coin cheeseheads out there...
I too have one Denver out of 15 Morgan’s that Looks different. It is shiny and generates rainbows. It is at pcgs but when it comes back I will post it. I was showing my mom because it was so pretty
I have handled thousands of these morgans and will confirm that there are many that come "pl" vs plain satin. ESPECIALLY D's
Lighting angle (and placement) makes a lot of difference in how a coin appears in a photograph. Eyes and brain adjust and compensate. Photos don't. Ever noticed the green tint in a pic taken under fluorescent lighting? That's because they give off a green tint but your eye and brain adjusts for the green yet the camera does not.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Except that's a red herring here
The camera angle is debated not white balance
Apparently, he'd like to debate both... even though the OP has the coin in hand.
Can you put them in light such as the signatures will look the same? Then we will all feel better about these 2 coins being different... but I do believe you and based on other posts it seems these exist... now I want one!
Btw - what is this? Some kind of spot here, mine doesn’t have this no matter what angle I hold it I cannot reproduce this effect and the other one doesn’t seem to have it either ...: