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1913 Type 1 Buffalo, Straight Grade or Details. GTG

MetalMetal Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
edited December 5, 2021 7:57AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I don't believe I've posted this coin before. I've had it since at least this spring. The coin was in a random also ran TPG holder. I picked it up with a bunch of other interesting but low-end coins at the local 'Friendly gun and pawn.'
The slab had it listed as a 'very' aspirational MS67.
I cracked it out, and it's currently at our host. I'm really hoping for a straight grade, but I'm afraid I will get a Details.
What do you guys think?

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Comments

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,570 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is something about it that just looks off in these photos. It may just be the photos but I would guess that it will not, perhaps in hand I would think differently.

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  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks very well struck and mint state. Luster appears off. Did it look cleaned in hand? If not, I dont see why it would not grade at least MS65, if not better.

  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like it was struck from proof dies. It’s a high end gem for sure, I’d guess 66.

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • MetalMetal Posts: 122 ✭✭✭

    it looks a little toned or bronzy to me but the rims have a bit of discoloration that I'm worried may be environmental damage.
    I took a ton of pics of it and some of the other coins I grabbed that day.

  • MetalMetal Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2021 10:39AM

    I will, I agree, but (as a complete novice in these things), how could you tool it and still leave those details?
    I've been searching high and low for the holder I cracked it out from. I can't remember who it was, but when I researched them, it was a company known for straight grading problem coins.
    Edit to add: Found it. it was slabbed by National Numismatic Certification.

  • goldengolden Posts: 9,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It just looks off.

  • Black.DiamondBlack.Diamond Posts: 120 ✭✭✭

    Looks like a nice type 1 buffalo to me. My guess is that it will grade at MS65.

  • mirabelamirabela Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm not even 100% convinced it's genuine.

    mirabela
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,454 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My gut feeling is that is a high quality fake. The relief just does not look like what I am used to seeing on a 1913 Type I nickel.

    If it is a fake it signals another jump in quality much as was seen in the 1799 dollar in another thread.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,549 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Second set of photos has a whizzed look to it to me also, but maybe it’s the images.

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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will say MS65 and it looks authentic. Interesting surface quality though....Cheers, RickO

  • 1Bufffan1Bufffan Posts: 656 ✭✭✭✭

    I think that you would be Lucky to get a MS65 on this coin Buffs are tough to grade but I would not Trust any NNC certification Grade anyway. hope our Host gives you a Good Grade either way nice Buff.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks like a late die state reverse paired with a relatively early die state obverse, note the field erosion difference. The strike is average, luster appears pretty good which is probably why Nancy gave it such a lofty grade. It looks like a 65 in my opinion.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 16,634 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2021 6:43AM

    What exact holder was it in? If it was the old PCI, those aren't bad. What I'm asking for is, if it were in the PCI. It surely might pass as a straight grade? To me, the coin looks legit for our Host to give it a ms 6? grade. Good Luck ;)

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  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,591 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looking even more closely at the reverse between 7 and 8 oclock the die erosion? Lines seem to go over the rim of the coin. I've never seen that before. Tooling?

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  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Need to see it in hand, but if you are asking there is some doubt. There are a lot of them around for the money it cost to get them graded send in a banging one with no problems.



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  • MetalMetal Posts: 122 ✭✭✭

    The reason I'm sending in some of this stuff is to learn, I'm really curious as to what it comes back with. In hand, the coin looks great.
    You guys have taught me a ton in this thread. Now we wait :smile:
    I do have a couple of coins in the old PCI holders from the same shopping trip that I may crack out soon and send in.
    I'll make a new thread for those.

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,998 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see nothing at all that would lead me to believe that it’s a problem coin. On the contrary, I believe it’s a super well stuck type one that should grade no lower than a 65 from the photos.

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  • LRCTomLRCTom Posts: 857 ✭✭✭

    I'm not sure I've seen a Type I Buffalo with "LIBERTY" as well-struck as that.

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  • nwcoastnwcoast Posts: 2,880 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Crazyhounddog speaks the truth.
    He knows his buffs too!
    He expressed my sentiment perfectly when I looked at the photos.
    I’ve picked up a few of these raw on The Bay over the years, and though some appeared good in the sellers pictures, they most often had issues which were carefully concealed with digital manipulation.
    Your second set of photos are good enough to reduce that possibility by a great deal.
    Looks like a fine Buff to me!

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  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2021 5:29PM

    I'll definitely go with those who know these coins. . Grading can be an opinion; but with the main grading services who have on staff PNG members there is usually a high level of professionalism. Most of them take a lot of pride on the accuracy of their grading and love of the hobby.

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks "off" to me also

    Can't put my finger on it though.....

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It does look off...........

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,591 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    It does look off...........

    Are you changing your mind? You said "It looks like a 66 coin to me, and it should holder."

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  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,460 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2021 9:56AM

    I would send it in as I would need to know. Tough to tell.

    Coins & Currency
  • WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,885 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Please post the grade when you receive it.
    I am not a Buffalo Man, but I do not like the reverse.
    From the pictures, it makes me think that it was whizzed but for your sake, I hope it comes back with a high grade.

    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • nwcoastnwcoast Posts: 2,880 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looking more closely at both sets of pictures, I am having second thoughts to my previous comments.
    The first photos portray the coin with a great strike and surfaces and the second set of photos do bring up some questions on the surfaces. The surface luster seems to be replaced with something else.
    I don’t know if it lighting, or some sort of light abrasion, but I now agree that there could be something “off”.
    Please do keep us updated on the outcome here.
    Thanks

    Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    65+, if the luster/brightness is there, then 66.

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  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    It does look off...........

    Are you changing your mind? You said "It looks like a 66 coin to me, and it should holder."

    Nope. But it does have a different look to it.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’d love to know what looks so “off” about it from that crowd.

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,164 ✭✭✭✭✭

    After seeing the second set of photos, I am afraid it may have been cleaned.
    Jim


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  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's a great result. Did you request that it be identified as a DDR ?

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  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,928 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats on the grade and the variety! That's a nice one:

    http://www.varietyvista.com/03 Buffalo Nickels/1913PDDR002.htm

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  • MetalMetal Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2022 6:36AM

    @Meltdown said:
    That's a great result. Did you request that it be identified as a DDR ?

    No, I had no idea. I wasn't even sure it would straight grade!
    I bought a whole mess of stuff that day in random holders. I didn't even have my glasses with me and couldn't have seen it had I tried! :D

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,164 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congratulations, I thought the first pics were great, but was worried in the second set of pics. I also want to congratulate you on the super prompt service you got getting it graded. Unreal. Hope mine go through twice as quick as that. Beautiful Buff and a DDR to boot.
    Jim


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  • clarkbar04clarkbar04 Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What tier did you submit it under to get results back in a month?

    MS66 taste on an MS63 budget.
  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A DDR too......................

    Difficult to see unless you know where to look. The "P" in PLURIBUS is a dead giveaway

    Pete.

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • MetalMetal Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2022 12:08PM

    @clarkbar04 said:
    What tier did you submit it under to get results back in a month?

    Oh, I didn't mean to give the wrong impression!
    I sent it back in October. I was sitting around one morning drinking my coffee and thought I'd start a thread and ask what all you guys thought. (I was getting antsy and wanted it back! lol)
    It truly is a gorgeous coin in person; it has every attribute of a proof but the sharp edges at the rim. (or at least that's what I came up with after google and a few threads here and around the interwebs)
    I'm glad I sent it! I believe I put in the notes, I thought it might be a proof, but I'd take any grade, details or not, because I wasn't sure what it was.
    I also told them to charge me whatever I had to pay because I wasn't sure under what service it should have been sent in under.
    Maybe they looked closer at it for me because of my notes and that's why it was given that attribute?
    Last time I asked you guys about a stunning nickel you guys all told me to save my money. :D lol
    I had just wanted that other coin in a new holder! :)

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,998 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congratulations my coin brother

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • MetalMetal Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2022 12:02AM

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    A DDR too......................

    Difficult to see unless you know where to look. The "P" in PLURIBUS is a dead giveaway

    Pete.

    I spent all morning scouring over as many photos and reading as much as I could on these and I was like yep! That was it. :smile:
    Thanks for letting me know for sure!

  • MetalMetal Posts: 122 ✭✭✭

    @crazyhounddog said:
    Congratulations my coin brother

    Man, You have no idea how stoked I am!
    Still can't sleep! lol

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,695 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You scored a home run, congratulations! The naysayers have egg on their faces!

  • MetalMetal Posts: 122 ✭✭✭

    Well, here she is :)

  • CoinCrazyPACoinCrazyPA Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭✭

    @Metal said:
    Well, here she is :)

    Congrats on the grade and ddr.

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  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well I’ll send you one with out that DDR problem just send it to me, Congratulations you need to buy more coins without you glasses. 😉



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  • CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 8,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Late to the party but I was gonna say I like Pete’s Assessment at 66.
    Then it got even better, congrats on the score!

  • MetalMetal Posts: 122 ✭✭✭

    @Type2 said:
    Well I’ll send you one with out that DDR problem just send it to me, Congratulations you need to buy more coins without you glasses. 😉

    I will take nothing less than an ASE ;) lol

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