Two Dealers Report Thefts at Baltimore show

logger7

http://numismaticcrimes.org/2021/11/23/alert-stolen-dealer-baltimore-show/

http://numismaticcrimes.org/2021/11/23/alert-missing-stolen-coins-baltimore-show/

Zoins

Terrible news!

http://numismaticcrimes.org/2021/11/23/alert-stolen-dealer-baltimore-show/

Dealer Jason Xie has reported the following items stolen while attending the recent Baltimore show.

Items Taken:
1. Rolex watch: See paper $17000
2. Coin: 1898 China Fengiten PCGS AU55, Cert# 38869382. $22K
3. Coin, 1927 China Memento Dollar PCGS MS65, $5000
4. Coin, 1820-1841 Annam Min Mang Gold 3 Tien. $5500
5. 5 pieces of early date of British Trade Dollar $1200
6. 22 pieces of Mexican Peso and 8 Reals $1380
7. One pieces of 1903 China Tibet rupe $520
8. 6 pieces of 1914 China Yuan Shih Kai Dollar $1200
9. 10 Pieces of 1912 China Tibet Tangka $600.
10. 6 Pieces of NGC graded Mexican 8 Reals and British Trade Dollar $3600.
11. One LV bag $500.

Anyone with information contact:
Doug Davis
Doug@numismaticcrimes.org
817-723-7231

MsMorrisine

@logger7 said:

http://numismaticcrimes.org/2021/11/23/alert-missing-stolen-coins-baltimore-show/

After returning home from the recent Baltimore show Delaware Valley Rare Coins
has reported several coins missing/stolen.
Missing/Stolen
CERT: 1899 Proof $2.50 Lib NGC PR60CAM 565383-004
1897 $2.50 Lib NGC MS65 CAC 6103021-001
1911 $2.50 Ind NGC MS64 CAC 5970995-003
1911-D $2.50 Ind PCGS AU58 43715307
Anyone with information contact:
Doug Davis
Doug@numismaticcrimes.org
817-723-7231

lkenefic

MFeld

Fortunately, it appears that these were thefts, not robberies, as apparently, there was no force or threat of force involved.

tincup

Wait for the smash and grab theft... like is happening in broad daylight in parts of the country.

(but I'm sure there would be lots of 'fire' works if that was to take place!)

logger7

As one lady coin dealer told me, if you hear a gunshot drop to the ground as there is a lot of "hardware" on the bourse floor!

ricko

That is really sad. How did so many coins get taken without the dealer knowing?? Must be some further information.... Away from table or something like that. Cheers, RickO

pcgscacgold

@ricko said:
That is really sad. How did so many coins get taken without the dealer knowing?? Must be some further information.... Away from table or something like that. Cheers, RickO

The Rolex watch is interesting. I have not seen many of those for sale at coin shows.

Zoins

@MsMorrisine said:

@logger7 said:

http://numismaticcrimes.org/2021/11/23/alert-missing-stolen-coins-baltimore-show/

After returning home from the recent Baltimore show Delaware Valley Rare Coins
has reported several coins missing/stolen.
Missing/Stolen
CERT: 1899 Proof $2.50 Lib NGC PR60CAM 565383-004
1897 $2.50 Lib NGC MS65 CAC 6103021-001
1911 $2.50 Ind NGC MS64 CAC 5970995-003
1911-D $2.50 Ind PCGS AU58 43715307
Anyone with information contact:
Doug Davis
Doug@numismaticcrimes.org
817-723-7231

This is really interesting that the coins were discovered missing only after returning home.

I wonder if PCGS could come up with a system to auto RFID scan everything in a box or case for inventory checking.

coinkat

As sad as it is to read this, it seems that the title of the thread should change to Thefts associated with the Baltimore Coin Show

Zoins

@coinkat said:
As sad as it is to read this, it seems that the title of the thread should change to Thefts associated with the Baltimore Coin Show

Is it confirmed that Jason Xie wasn't robbed? It seems a bit ambiguous.

Delaware Valley Rare Coins sounds like theft, but if we don't leave anything to chance, it seems like the coins could also have been misplaced.

Hopefully they are reviewing the Baltimore security footage to identify thefts and thieves.

MFeld

@coinkat said:
As sad as it is to read this, it seems that the title of the thread should change to Thefts associated with the Baltimore Coin Show

I agree, which is why I posted “Fortunately, it appears that these were thefts, not robberies, as apparently, there was no force or threat of force involved.” Perhaps I was too subtle.

coinkat

@MFeld

I agree with you which is why I added my comment

Zoins

@Zoins said:
2. Coin: 1898 China Fengiten PCGS AU55, Cert# 38869382. $22K

This coin is interesting as it's listed at $22k but the PCGS Price Guide is $7k. What is the general approach for assigning value? Insurance value?

BuffaloIronTail

@MFeld said:
Fortunately, it appears that these were thefts, not robberies, as apparently, there was no force or threat of force involved.

That's the only good thing anyone can say about it.

Pete

MsMorrisine

@Zoins said:

@Zoins said:
2. Coin: 1898 China Fengiten PCGS AU55, Cert# 38869382. $22K

This coin is interesting as it's listed at $22k but the PCGS Price Guide is $7k. What is the general approach for assigning value? Insurance value?

https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-T1JZ4/t-china-fengtien-7-mace-2-candareens-dollar-year-24-1898-pcgs-genuine-cleaned-au-details

MsMorrisine

@Zoins said:

@Zoins said:
2. Coin: 1898 China Fengtien PCGS AU55, Cert# 38869382. $22K

This coin is interesting as it's listed at $22k but the PCGS Price Guide is $7k. What is the general approach for assigning value? Insurance value?

and I read right over it several times.

FengTien not FengIten

Zoins

@MsMorrisine said:

@Zoins said:

@Zoins said:
2. Coin: 1898 China Fengiten PCGS AU55, Cert# 38869382. $22K

This coin is interesting as it's listed at $22k but the PCGS Price Guide is $7k. What is the general approach for assigning value? Insurance value?

https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-T1JZ4/t-china-fengtien-7-mace-2-candareens-dollar-year-24-1898-pcgs-genuine-cleaned-au-details

That's certainly closer at $18k but those aren't the same coin. I am curious how value is assessed, but no need to discuss further in this thread.

Missing coin: PCGS AU55

• Cert: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/38869382

Stack's coin: PCGS AU Details - Cleaned

• Cert: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/42364291

WQuarterFreddie

the> @logger7 said:

http://numismaticcrimes.org/2021/11/23/alert-stolen-dealer-baltimore-show/

http://numismaticcrimes.org/2021/11/23/alert-missing-stolen-coins-baltimore-show/

Baltimore gets enough bad press on it's own...most deservedly so but your thread title is misleading and should be changed to Dealers report coins and items as Missing/Stolen as stated in the articles.😎

Your title suggests violence and that they were robbed by thugs which is misleading until we get the full story. 🤔

We want members to attend next year's show not to be afraid to attend.😎

Thank you!

coinandcurrency242

Baltimore can be a rough area. If I go, I try to be gone before the sun goes down.

hummingbird_coins

I am writing about a stolen coin for my realistic fiction essay... Maybe I jinxed it?

Smudge

@coinandcurrency242 said:
Baltimore can be a rough area. If I go, I try to be gone before the sun goes down.

A lot of cities are rough these days.

coinandcurrency242

@Smudge said:

@coinandcurrency242 said:
Baltimore can be a rough area. If I go, I try to be gone before the sun goes down.

A lot of cities are rough these days.

That is the truth!

Zoins

@Smudge said:

@coinandcurrency242 said:
Baltimore can be a rough area. If I go, I try to be gone before the sun goes down.

A lot of cities are rough these days.

Income distribution isn’t helping.

ricko

@pcgscacgold... I see them frequently at gun shows... Seems there is a secondary market out there... Mostly collectors I think...Might be someone just wants a Rolex and finding a bargain. Never interested me. I have a gold Omega Seamaster I got many years ago....Cheers, RickO

pcgscacgold

It appears the theft happened inside the show and the city has nothing to do with it. Not sure how that has become part of it.

MsMorrisine

Also not a good idea to go down the “problems with” when the topic isn’t coins

WQuarterFreddie

@pcgscacgold said:
It appears the theft happened inside the show and the city has nothing to do with it. Not sure how that has become part of it.

Uh....the title of the thread is the reason which is exactly why I asked for the thread title to be changed by the OP.

MilesWaits

This is significantly less in price and might better withstand the rough neighborhoods and browse floor “hardware!”

Go Seals!

SIowhand

Let’s not get caught up in semantics. There are tens of thousands of dollars worth of coins stolen. It doesn’t matter how the thieves came into possession of them.

logger7

I updated the title, I hope that is better. Doug Davis sent out two emails today on the same topic.

WQuarterFreddie

@logger7 said:
I updated the title, I hope that is better. Doug Davis sent out two emails today on the same topic.

Thank you! Much better.😎

WQuarterFreddie

@SIowhand said:
Let’s not get caught up in semantics. There are tens of thousands of dollars worth of coins stolen. It doesn’t matter how the thieves came into possession of them.

Semantics create perceptions and perceptions are considered reality by many of us😉

Namvet69

At the bottom of the list is a Louis Vuitton bag listed so the items were in a large bag when stolen. IMO. Sure hope the surveillance video is helpful. Peace Roy

MsMorrisine

It is not uncommon for dealers to also sell luxury items

I would not assume they were inside. I would not assume they weren’t.

AlexinPA

It's very sad to hear about this but not surprising in, what has become, the era of the 'Smash and Grab'. Better start getting some armed security or every dealer get a CCW card.

SeattleSlammer

@logger7 said:
As one lady coin dealer told me, if you hear a gunshot drop to the ground as there is a lot of "hardware" on the bourse floor!

You ain’t kidding.

@ricko said:
I have a gold Omega Seamaster I got many years ago....Cheers, RickO

Classy.

BustDMs

@AlexinPA said:
It's very sad to hear about this but not surprising in, what has become, the era of the 'Smash and Grab'. Better start getting some armed security or every dealer get a CCW card.

Yea, give more guns to rank amateurs. That’s just what I want, rookies throwing lead around indiscriminately.

Shooting is a difficult discipline that needs regular practice to be effective. I shoot a few thousand rounds a year. I’m sure RickO can boast bigger numbers. Would all the CCW dealers be as proactive in practicing? I think not.

I agree that if I hear shots at a coin show I would be making myself as small as possible flat on the floor or behind hard cover.

Steven59

Thank God it was a "theft" and not a "robbery" - I'm sure the guy feels much better now.

SeattleSlammer

@BustDMs said:

Shooting is a difficult discipline that needs regular practice to be effective. I shoot a few thousand rounds a year. I’m sure RickO can boast bigger numbers. Would all the CCW dealers be as proactive in practicing? I think not.

That is why I prefer a relatively idiot proof break-action 20 gauge shotgun ….. though I imagine it would be frowned upon on the bourse. 🤓

TonerGuy

Im surprised this doesnt happen more often. Security at shows is so lax. Im surprised it hasnt happened on a major scale yet.

MFeld

@Steven59 said:
Thank God it was a "theft" and not a "robbery" - I'm sure the guy feels much better now.

Your sarcasm aside, a number of us feel that it’s an important distinction and accuracy is better.

gtstang

Do any dealers here think about setting up their own personal recording devices at shows? They are not that expensive now and can be well worth the few hundred dollars if that to add extra security to their inventory.
They can also put a sign up that says something like "if you are at this table, you are being recorded" to try and deter possible thefts.

SurfinxHI

@gtstang said:
Do any dealers here think about setting up their own personal recording devices at shows? They are not that expensive now and can be well worth the few hundred dollars if that to add extra security to their inventory.
They can also put a sign up that says something like "if you are at this table, you are being recorded" to try and deter possible thefts.

I have seen those at tables before, so….yes.

tokenpro

@SeattleSlammer said:

@logger7 said:
As one lady coin dealer told me, if you hear a gunshot drop to the ground as there is a lot of "hardware" on the bourse floor!

You ain’t kidding.

Three times over the years a weapon has been discharged at coin shows where I have had a table. Each time it has been a dealer mishandling his own firearm or one that was being shown to him. Thankfully no one was harmed in any of the incidents (but one slug ended up buried in a wood bourse table top too close for comfort. I let my thoughts be known to all.)

blitzdude

@Smudge said:

@coinandcurrency242 said:
Baltimore can be a rough area. If I go, I try to be gone before the sun goes down.

A lot of cities are rough these days.

A whole lotta countries too. Natural selection taking good care of this one. RGDS!

2ndCharter

Im surprised this doesnt happen more often. Security at shows is so lax. Im surprised it hasnt happened on a major scale yet.

Then, you ought to come to our annual South Carolina show - we have 24-hour uniformed sheriff's deputies, undercover security walking the floor, and other measures I won't go into in a public forum. I ought to know - as Treasurer of the SCNA, I pay the security bills.

SIowhand

@tokenpro said:

@SeattleSlammer said:

@logger7 said:
As one lady coin dealer told me, if you hear a gunshot drop to the ground as there is a lot of "hardware" on the bourse floor!

You ain’t kidding.

Three times over the years a weapon has been discharged at coin shows where I have had a table. Each time it has been a dealer mishandling his own firearm or one that was being shown to him. Thankfully no one was harmed in any of the incidents (but one slug ended up buried in a wood bourse table top too close for comfort. I let my thoughts be known to all.)

You have witnessed three accidental discharges? That is incredible. Unlucky.

PerryHall

@SIowhand said:

@tokenpro said:

@SeattleSlammer said:

@logger7 said:
As one lady coin dealer told me, if you hear a gunshot drop to the ground as there is a lot of "hardware" on the bourse floor!

You ain’t kidding.

Three times over the years a weapon has been discharged at coin shows where I have had a table. Each time it has been a dealer mishandling his own firearm or one that was being shown to him. Thankfully no one was harmed in any of the incidents (but one slug ended up buried in a wood bourse table top too close for comfort. I let my thoughts be known to all.)

You have witnessed three accidental discharges? That is incredible. Unlucky.

I've been to hundreds of shows and I've never seen an accidental discharge of a firearm.

Zoins

@PerryHall said:

@SIowhand said:

@tokenpro said:

@SeattleSlammer said:

@logger7 said:
As one lady coin dealer told me, if you hear a gunshot drop to the ground as there is a lot of "hardware" on the bourse floor!

You ain’t kidding.

Three times over the years a weapon has been discharged at coin shows where I have had a table. Each time it has been a dealer mishandling his own firearm or one that was being shown to him. Thankfully no one was harmed in any of the incidents (but one slug ended up buried in a wood bourse table top too close for comfort. I let my thoughts be known to all.)

You have witnessed three accidental discharges? That is incredible. Unlucky.

I've been to hundreds of shows and I've never seen an accidental discharge of a firearm.

Are you around dealers handling their own firearms or one being shown to him? Those were all the instances @tokenpro relayed.