@MasonG said:
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't need to be around dealers handling their own firearms or being shown one to recognize when one was discharged.
Yes, but @tokenpro mentioned those were the situations for the 3 times he’s been around a gun discharge at a coin show. Coincidence or causality?
@MasonG said:
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't need to be around dealers handling their own firearms or being shown one to recognize when one was discharged.
Yes, but @tokenpro mentioned those were the situations for the 3 times he’s been around a gun discharge at a coin show. Coincidence or causality?
@2ndCharter said: Im surprised this doesnt happen more often. Security at shows is so lax. Im surprised it hasnt happened on a major scale yet.
Then, you ought to come to our annual South Carolina show - we have 24-hour uniformed sheriff's deputies, undercover security walking the floor, and other measures I won't go into in a public forum. I ought to know - as Treasurer of the SCNA, I pay the security bills.
None of which would work against someone who was very good at slight of hand. Its pretty easy to find fake coins in fake slabs and make the switch at the dealers table. Some dealers are somewhat lazy and will allow a collector to reach inside a display case, grab a coin and look at it and then replace it himself. I never understood this. If I were a dealer I would always hand the coin to a collector and check when it comes back.
You cant just ask to see the most expensive or rarest coins since that would send up a red flag. But common date Morgans in better grades... you would hardly be noticed until the dealer got back home and unpacked his bags.
In a few hours, one person can clean out a lot of dealers of some not so major but expensive coins.
You would need Vegas style eyes in the sky security to stop that.
@2ndCharter said: Im surprised this doesnt happen more often. Security at shows is so lax. Im surprised it hasnt happened on a major scale yet.
Then, you ought to come to our annual South Carolina show - we have 24-hour uniformed sheriff's deputies, undercover security walking the floor, and other measures I won't go into in a public forum. I ought to know - as Treasurer of the SCNA, I pay the security bills.
None of which would work against someone who was very good at slight of hand. Its pretty easy to find fake coins in fake slabs and make the switch at the dealers table. Some dealers are somewhat lazy and will allow a collector to reach inside a display case, grab a coin and look at it and then replace it himself. I never understood this. If I were a dealer I would always hand the coin to a collector and check when it comes back.
You cant just ask to see the most expensive or rarest coins since that would send up a red flag. But common date Morgans in better grades... you would hardly be noticed until the dealer got back home and unpacked his bags.
In a few hours, one person can clean out a lot of dealers of some not so major but expensive coins.
You would need Vegas style eyes in the sky security to stop that.
I wonder how many dealers take classes on this kind of theft. I know in large retail chains, there are a lot of theft training videos / classes.
@MFeld said:
Fortunately, it appears that these were thefts, not robberies, as apparently, there was no force or threat of force involved.
Fortunately ? Odd choice of adjectives.
Fortunately for the thief , not so much the victim.
Yes, fortunately, at least to my way of thinking. For example, if given a choice between someone stealing coins from me by palming them/taking them while I wasn't looking, vs. shooting/threating to shoot me/jumping me, I'd much prefer the former over the latter.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Police detective got tired of my visits... "It's not illegal to take out CC's in another persons name until they used them..."
Thanks Barney!
And if the dealer is located far from the show location, it may take days/weeks for the report to be formally made. Usually, you have to sign a criminal complaint under penalty of perjury to prevent insurance fraud.
There would be literally zero chance of being caught especially if you had a fence willing to buy the coins. And once they are cracked out of the slabs, then they are just widgets that cannot be easily identified, especially if you are stealing untoned, common date Morgans or common gold coins.
coins shows are the perfect situation for crime to happen, many people, dealers are busy, not too many cops or guards around,people not being aware of what is around them, coins in plain sight
and crooks can blend into the crowd knowing the cameras will not spot them easy
put all that together and you most likely will have issues, and since coins are basically in plain view they just pick one and ask to see it and then the dealer has his attention pulled away by something or someone and so long coin
I'm surprised accidental discharges at coin shows are that frequent.
Is a dealer really going to light off a round in a bldg?
At gun shows, all guns are secured. No loaded magazines.
At the lone instant I'm aware of,
Shooter was arrested, gun confiscated and show was closed and promoter barred from that venue.
@logger7 said:
As one lady coin dealer told me, if you hear a gunshot drop to the ground as there is a lot of "hardware" on the bourse floor!
You ain’t kidding.
Three times over the years a weapon has been discharged at coin shows where I have had a table. Each time it has been a dealer mishandling his own firearm or one that was being shown to him. Thankfully no one was harmed in any of the incidents (but one slug ended up buried in a wood bourse table top too close for comfort. I let my thoughts be known to all.)
You have witnessed three accidental discharges? That is incredible. Unlucky.
I've been to hundreds of shows and I've never seen an accidental discharge of a firearm.
Never at a coin show but I've witnessed "accidental" discharges at a few texas gun shows. It's been my experience anyway that the gun "nuts" are the last ones that should ever be allowed to touch a firearm. Happy Holidays, Jesus loves you, Semper Fi and all the other malarkey.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@Zoins said:
Yes, but @tokenpro mentioned those were the situations for the 3 times he’s been around a gun discharge at a coin show. Coincidence or causality?
I worked with a guy who had been scheduled on three flights that went down. Each time he had rescheduled for business reasons. If you were traveling with Don and he rescheduled, you did too.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I'm really surprised we haven't herd of a smash and grab at a local show. I can see at a larger show where it would be hard to pull off with extra security, and Id to get in an such, but a smaller venue. We have an upcoming show this weekend, we were talking about it today in the shop.
I used to carry some big coins, and put them on display years ago, But I no longer do that for fear or a robbery or heist
Date:10/14/2021
Offense: Theft
Incident location: NEW YORK CITY
Investigating Agency: NYPD/Baltimore
Details:
On November 26, 2021, NCIC sent out an alert regarding a theft that occurred at
the recent Baltimore coin show. On November 30, 2021, a suspect described as a
Hispanic male attempted to sell several of the stolen coins to dealerships in New
York City. On December 3, 2021, a suspect was arrested with several coins in his
possession.
NCIC was on the phone as the arrest was in progress and coordinated the efforts
between NYPD and Baltimore PD.
The success in this offense was due to the rapid dissemination of the crime alert
and the quick actions by the staff of Brigandi Coins, Heritage, and Stacks
Bowers.
The investigation is on-going and additional information will be sent out when
available.
@logger7 said:
As one lady coin dealer told me, if you hear a gunshot drop to the ground as there is a lot of "hardware" on the bourse floor!
You ain’t kidding.
Three times over the years a weapon has been discharged at coin shows where I have had a table. Each time it has been a dealer mishandling his own firearm or one that was being shown to him. Thankfully no one was harmed in any of the incidents (but one slug ended up buried in a wood bourse table top too close for comfort. I let my thoughts be known to all.)
You have witnessed three accidental discharges? That is incredible. Unlucky.
He didn't actually say that he wasn't the dealer who accidentally discharged the weapons... 😉
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Comments
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't need to be around dealers handling their own firearms or being shown one to recognize when one was discharged.
These deadbeats need to find a job.
Dave
Yes, but @tokenpro mentioned those were the situations for the 3 times he’s been around a gun discharge at a coin show. Coincidence or causality?
Fortunately ? Odd choice of adjectives.
Fortunately for the thief , not so much the victim.
I wouldn't know. I wasn't there.
None of which would work against someone who was very good at slight of hand. Its pretty easy to find fake coins in fake slabs and make the switch at the dealers table. Some dealers are somewhat lazy and will allow a collector to reach inside a display case, grab a coin and look at it and then replace it himself. I never understood this. If I were a dealer I would always hand the coin to a collector and check when it comes back.
You cant just ask to see the most expensive or rarest coins since that would send up a red flag. But common date Morgans in better grades... you would hardly be noticed until the dealer got back home and unpacked his bags.
In a few hours, one person can clean out a lot of dealers of some not so major but expensive coins.
You would need Vegas style eyes in the sky security to stop that.
Crime can be profitable.
I can see how slight of hand happens.
Once held onto a $2500 coin for several minutes at the Dalton Show while the dealer handled another customer.
Teams working together or solo, backs turned... just a shame.
In this day of technology major shows should record entry/exit with cameras.
Problem is that law enforcement will likely be days or weeks behind.
A couple years ago, I alerted several people across the country of CC/identity theft.... found them in less than a hour of internet searches.
My local PD and USPS just did not care.
USPS postmaster actually shrugged and said... "It's rampant..."
Police detective got tired of my visits... "It's not illegal to take out CC's in another persons name until they used them..."
Thanks Barney!
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
I wonder how many dealers take classes on this kind of theft. I know in large retail chains, there are a lot of theft training videos / classes.
Yes, fortunately, at least to my way of thinking. For example, if given a choice between someone stealing coins from me by palming them/taking them while I wasn't looking, vs. shooting/threating to shoot me/jumping me, I'd much prefer the former over the latter.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And if the dealer is located far from the show location, it may take days/weeks for the report to be formally made. Usually, you have to sign a criminal complaint under penalty of perjury to prevent insurance fraud.
There would be literally zero chance of being caught especially if you had a fence willing to buy the coins. And once they are cracked out of the slabs, then they are just widgets that cannot be easily identified, especially if you are stealing untoned, common date Morgans or common gold coins.
coins shows are the perfect situation for crime to happen, many people, dealers are busy, not too many cops or guards around,people not being aware of what is around them, coins in plain sight
and crooks can blend into the crowd knowing the cameras will not spot them easy
put all that together and you most likely will have issues, and since coins are basically in plain view they just pick one and ask to see it and then the dealer has his attention pulled away by something or someone and so long coin
COINS FOR SALE
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VLi1NBeJuE7UTkCE7
I'm surprised accidental discharges at coin shows are that frequent.
Is a dealer really going to light off a round in a bldg?
At gun shows, all guns are secured. No loaded magazines.
At the lone instant I'm aware of,
Shooter was arrested, gun confiscated and show was closed and promoter barred from that venue.
Never at a coin show but I've witnessed "accidental" discharges at a few texas gun shows. It's been my experience anyway that the gun "nuts" are the last ones that should ever be allowed to touch a firearm. Happy Holidays, Jesus loves you, Semper Fi and all the other malarkey.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
I worked with a guy who had been scheduled on three flights that went down. Each time he had rescheduled for business reasons. If you were traveling with Don and he rescheduled, you did too.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I'm really surprised we haven't herd of a smash and grab at a local show. I can see at a larger show where it would be hard to pull off with extra security, and Id to get in an such, but a smaller venue. We have an upcoming show this weekend, we were talking about it today in the shop.
I used to carry some big coins, and put them on display years ago, But I no longer do that for fear or a robbery or heist
Doug Davis sent out this update today:
Date:10/14/2021
Offense: Theft
Incident location: NEW YORK CITY
Investigating Agency: NYPD/Baltimore
Details:
On November 26, 2021, NCIC sent out an alert regarding a theft that occurred at
the recent Baltimore coin show. On November 30, 2021, a suspect described as a
Hispanic male attempted to sell several of the stolen coins to dealerships in New
York City. On December 3, 2021, a suspect was arrested with several coins in his
possession.
NCIC was on the phone as the arrest was in progress and coordinated the efforts
between NYPD and Baltimore PD.
The success in this offense was due to the rapid dissemination of the crime alert
and the quick actions by the staff of Brigandi Coins, Heritage, and Stacks
Bowers.
The investigation is on-going and additional information will be sent out when
available.
Doug Davis
Founder/President
NCIC
He didn't actually say that he wasn't the dealer who accidentally discharged the weapons... 😉