@fiftysevener said:
Coin appears cleaned, wiped, retoned and among other things just 'off' to me. While these effects may not detract from it's rareness or appeal otherwise, can someone that knows this coin better than I comment on the MS 64 grade ?
I do not agree that it has been "cleaned", "wiped", or "re-toned".
The assigned "MS64" grade seems reasonable to me.
The toning is original and one way to tell is the radial "stripes" coming off the stars and letters near the rim.
Changes in the metal surface due to the stresses of metal movement can result in some areas toning different than other areas (thus, the "stripes").
All of the top 20 ( had to pick a number) are incredible mint errors and combine rarity, provenance and dramatic eye-appeal!
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
It’s creeping up there in price, still a long way to go:
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@fiftysevener said:
Coin appears cleaned, wiped, retoned and among other things just 'off' to me. While these effects may not detract from it's rareness or appeal otherwise, can someone that knows this coin better than I comment on the MS 64 grade ?
I do not agree that it has been "cleaned", "wiped", or "re-toned".
The assigned "MS64" grade seems reasonable to me.
The toning is original and one way to tell is the radial "stripes" coming off the stars and letters near the rim.
Changes in the metal surface due to the stresses of metal movement can result in some areas toning different than other areas (thus, the "stripes").
Massive pull-away toning. You can even see it in front of Liberty's profile. This toning is present on the photo in the VAM book (p. 137), as well.
Way too cool. I did Morgans for decades and never saw one of those. But I have avoided looking at errors because .... well you all know .... I need another collecting focus like I need another hole in my head.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Cap looks like a couple over dipped AU 64 dollars of mine. Thats where my comparison ends. Maybe some arguments could be made that these so called errors are government property. Just sayin
@fiftysevener said:
Maybe some arguments could be made that these so called errors are government property. Just sayin
I kind of doubt it but I'd be interested to hear what arguments you're thinking of!
This has been privately owned since the time of Virgil Brand, and I haven't seen any evidence that something out in the market this long would be government property, have you?
@fiftysevener said:
Cap looks like a couple over dipped AU 64 dollars of mine. Thats where my comparison ends. Maybe some arguments could be made that these so called errors are government property. Just sayin
That suggestion is totally without any proof to back it up.
Just saying.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@fiftysevener said:
Maybe some arguments could be made that these so called errors are government property. Just sayin
I kind of doubt it but I'd be interested to hear what arguments you're thinking of!
This has been privately owned since the time of Virgil Brand, and I haven't seen any evidence that something out in the market this long would be government property, have you?
Guess I'll have to agree that if it's been out in the market this long it must be legal to own.
Can I also assume that since those '33 Double Eagles were only entering the market a few years ago that they were deemed government property because no long ownership precedence was established since they were just 'found' in a safe deposit box ?
@fiftysevener said:
Maybe some arguments could be made that these so called errors are government property. Just sayin
I kind of doubt it but I'd be interested to hear what arguments you're thinking of!
This has been privately owned since the time of Virgil Brand, and I haven't seen any evidence that something out in the market this long would be government property, have you?
Guess I'll have to agree that if it's been out in the market this long it must be legal to own.
Can I also assume that since those '33 Double Eagles were only entering the market a few years ago that they were deemed government property because no long ownership precedence was established since they were just 'found' in a safe deposit box ?
The forums have a lot of discussion on the history of the 1933 double eagles. A search will provide you with some answers on those coins.
@fiftysevener said:
Maybe some arguments could be made that these so called errors are government property. Just sayin
I kind of doubt it but I'd be interested to hear what arguments you're thinking of!
This has been privately owned since the time of Virgil Brand, and I haven't seen any evidence that something out in the market this long would be government property, have you?
Guess I'll have to agree that if it's been out in the market this long it must be legal to own.
Can I also assume that since those '33 Double Eagles were only entering the market a few years ago that they were deemed government property because no long ownership precedence was established since they were just 'found' in a safe deposit box ?
You can assume that, but shouldn’t.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@Byers said:
Certainly the Indian Head Cents in gold and the Morgan Dollar Obverse Die Caps are top ten on any list.
I can't imagine any error more interesting than an Indian Head cent struck in gold (unless it was one of the rumored 1909-S VDB cents struck on a $2.50 gold planchet).
Been busting Nugget's chops for close to 50 years about gold Indian Cents being kosher. Your area, Mike, but my instinct has always been that these were produced intentionally. Rather than distract here, I'll be the first to request a thread about their origins
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
@Byers said:
Certainly the Indian Head Cents in gold and the Morgan Dollar Obverse Die Caps are top ten on any list.
I can't imagine any error more interesting than an Indian Head cent struck in gold (unless it was one of the rumored 1909-S VDB cents struck on a $2.50 gold planchet).
Been busting Nugget's chops for close to 50 years about gold Indian Cents being kosher. Your area, Mike, but my instinct has always been that these were produced intentionally. Rather than distract here, I'll be the first to request a thread about their origins
Unless you have evidence of a current or former Mint employee offering more than one of them for sale, like Samuel Brown having five 1913 Liberty nickels for sale, you have absolutely no evidence that any one cent pieces were intentionally struck on gold quarter eagle planchets.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Agree. I am looking for an explanation of how the $2 1/2 planchet fell into the bin with the penny planchets. But that specific "issue" is OT to the much broader context of this thread. Let's drop it.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
@ColonelJessup said:
Agree. I am looking for an explanation of how the $2 1/2 planchet fell into the bin with the penny planchets. But that specific "issue" is OT to the much broader context of this thread. Let's drop it.
It's a great discussion and on topic in the The Top 20 Error Coins of All Time thread
@Byers said:
Obviously intentionally struck gold Indian Cents.
Cynic that I am, I have no problem accepting the gold struck cents and the nickel as legitimate errors.
When I worked for Coin World I belonged to the Shelby County Coin Club. Our Treasurer (I was Secretary) was the #2 man in the Sidney Police force. He had enough clout that all of the take from the city parking meters came through his office before being discovered. Over the years he found two normal $2-1/2 gold pieces that had apparently been placed into meters as dimes. I can see a gold planchet finding its way into a cent or nickel press. Probably not a dime or a quarter press, because I think that silver coins were inspected more closely after they were struck than minor coins were.
I have agreed to drop any discussion of the gold cents from this thread on the dollar cap so as to not hijack it.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
I have to admit, I don't know how GC auctions end so this will be interesting. I'm guessing they are like eBay auctions but I don't really know. The few times I've bid on GC auctions (winning and losing) have been fire and forget bids.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
I'd like it to beat this modern at $192k, but I'm not confident enough to guess that it will:
WOW, that coin sold for 192K? I would buy the Morgan if I have the money.
Wow, sorry, I did not realize this coin is one side 25C and the other is dollar. That's very rare. Now I understand why it cost 192K.
Yes, the dual denomination makes this special and worth a premium. That being said, there are actually a number of these with one collector cornering the marking so the prices may be a bit on the high side.
Comments
I do not agree that it has been "cleaned", "wiped", or "re-toned".
The assigned "MS64" grade seems reasonable to me.
The toning is original and one way to tell is the radial "stripes" coming off the stars and letters near the rim.
Changes in the metal surface due to the stresses of metal movement can result in some areas toning different than other areas (thus, the "stripes").
Truly amazing!
BHNC #203
All of the top 20 ( had to pick a number) are incredible mint errors and combine rarity, provenance and dramatic eye-appeal!
Great thought Mike! I created the following thread to cover the Top 20! Let's discuss all these coins there!
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1067304/the-top-20-error-coins-of-all-time#latest
It’s creeping up there in price, still a long way to go:
Massive pull-away toning. You can even see it in front of Liberty's profile. This toning is present on the photo in the VAM book (p. 137), as well.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Way too cool. I did Morgans for decades and never saw one of those. But I have avoided looking at errors because .... well you all know .... I need another collecting focus like I need another hole in my head.
This is up to $73,850 already with 37 days to go!
How high will this go? Will it beat out the $105k Ike or the $120k Sac?
Who will be next in line after Virgil Brand and Amon Carter to own this? Will the next buyer be public?
@Zoins
Interesting questions!
We will see…
Cap looks like a couple over dipped AU 64 dollars of mine. Thats where my comparison ends. Maybe some arguments could be made that these so called errors are government property. Just sayin
I kind of doubt it but I'd be interested to hear what arguments you're thinking of!
This has been privately owned since the time of Virgil Brand, and I haven't seen any evidence that something out in the market this long would be government property, have you?
That suggestion is totally without any proof to back it up.
Just saying.
Up to $82,500.00 now!
Guess I'll have to agree that if it's been out in the market this long it must be legal to own.
Can I also assume that since those '33 Double Eagles were only entering the market a few years ago that they were deemed government property because no long ownership precedence was established since they were just 'found' in a safe deposit box ?
The forums have a lot of discussion on the history of the 1933 double eagles. A search will provide you with some answers on those coins.
Now at $90k.
Any guesses how high this will go?
I would have to agree with Fred!
You can assume that, but shouldn’t.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The Brand-Carter 1886 Morgan Dollar Obverse Die Cap Error is now the Great Collections Cover Coin!
Note the black dot indicating it's the top coin
Here's the image without the website navigation overlay for posterity.
Top coin of two?
Yes, the top photo shows the number one rank of the coin on GC!
Been busting Nugget's chops for close to 50 years about gold Indian Cents being kosher. Your area, Mike, but my instinct has always been that these were produced intentionally. Rather than distract here, I'll be the first to request a thread about their origins
Unless you have evidence of a current or former Mint employee offering more than one of them for sale, like Samuel Brown having five 1913 Liberty nickels for sale, you have absolutely no evidence that any one cent pieces were intentionally struck on gold quarter eagle planchets.
Agree. I am looking for an explanation of how the $2 1/2 planchet fell into the bin with the penny planchets. But that specific "issue" is OT to the much broader context of this thread. Let's drop it.
It's a great discussion and on topic in the The Top 20 Error Coins of All Time thread
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1067304/the-top-20-error-coins-of-all-time#latest
Tom wrote the following there:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13109440/#Comment_13109440
I have agreed to drop any discussion of the gold cents from this thread on the dollar cap so as to not hijack it.
Agreed. Let's move the discussion to the The Top 20 Error Coins of All Time thread
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13109440/#Comment_13109440
The price is at 95K right now. Will it go over 100K tomorrow?
The real bidding hasn’t started yet
Wow, sounds like you think it will go a lot higher. It is a great coin.
Check out @FredWeinberg’s estimate which I posted earlier.
7 hours left. It’s still at 95k.
I'm thinking $120k to $150k. Let's see.
I'd like it to beat this modern at $192k, but I'm not confident enough to guess that it will:
So what's the face value of this mule? $1.25?
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
WOW, that coin sold for 192K? I would buy the Morgan if I have the money.
192k + postage
No free shipping
$100K
$102,500
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1090361/Mint-Error-1886-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-Obverse-Die-Cap-PCGS-MS-64-Ex-Amon-Carter
2.5 hours to go!
105k + BP and postage☺️
Assuming a bank wire, this would be 10% BP, so 115.5k ... and postage
$125K - 32 minutes to go.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
See that Mike @Byers
Now I only need to see if I guessed too low! I'd love it to go over $150k and even $200k to beat the Washington Dollar mule!
I'm going to have to up my estimate to $150-$175k
$127.5k $130k + BP + SH now.
I have to admit, I don't know how GC auctions end so this will be interesting. I'm guessing they are like eBay auctions but I don't really know. The few times I've bid on GC auctions (winning and losing) have been fire and forget bids.
I'm guessing they are like eBay auctions.
This.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
140k👍
Wow, sorry, I did not realize this coin is one side 25C and the other is dollar. That's very rare. Now I understand why it cost 192K.
The thing is that on eBay I'm used to seeing increment jumps which I don't seem to be seeing here. Curious to see how this ends up!
$140k!
Wow! $142.5k or $156.75 with 10% BP!
Didn't see any nuke sniping like I see on eBay.
Yes, the dual denomination makes this special and worth a premium. That being said, there are actually a number of these with one collector cornering the marking so the prices may be a bit on the high side.