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When a coin turns in the holder.........

Desert MoonDesert Moon Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

For the better. Never had a silver coin change in a holder, ever. I bought this 1831 dime in auction in 2011. Here is the auction description:

"Hints of green-gold peripheral toning enhance the eye appeal of this otherwise silver-white Bust dime, struck from the accessible JR-3 die pair. A well-defined and attractive coin with few significant abrasions for the grade."

Here is the image, it was accurate when taken in 2015 and pretty much the same as the auction images in 2011. Once can see a slight hint of tone along the rims, but I considered it to be more or less blast white when viewed in hand:

A couple weeks ago I pulled it out and was looking at my bust dimes which are all in storage together. Hold it I thought, this 1831 is supposed to be nearly blast white but it has predominantly orange toning now. Woah, looks great I thought and then confirmed the original image. Never have had this happen before, I like it and won't complain. Thoughts on how/why this happened?

Best, SH

My online coin store - https://desertmoonnm.com/

Comments

  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tom's thought was my first impression as well... likely dipped and the residue was not sufficiently washed away...

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  • Desert MoonDesert Moon Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why only on the periphery? Washing 'dip' away probably does not result in a symmetrical residue on the periphery?

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  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 7,114 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2021 12:14PM

    Not sure I agree with the assessment above. It just does not look like dip residue to me. Maybe. I don't think I'm as experienced there as Tom.

    My first take ...

    Dipped and sat in an album, where it got some to the album at the rims and edges. Pulled from the album and slabbed, without any type of rinse (acetone or otherwise) ... and over time, in a slight loose holder (coin has rotated), the residue/particulate from the edges mixed with the atmosphere inside the holder to tone some of the surface area.

    It's a rare winner that would turn nicer in the holder, but I have had a couple similar experiences, even on coins I holdered, and so I know part of their backstories (ie sat in an album for a 5 to 10 years, and then after being slabbed the toning developed, or changed slightly and deepened a bit).

    My 2c

    EDIT to add ... my theory is this is this change is mostly due to temperature and humidity fluctuations in storage when the conditions above are present


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  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can just see hints of color on the first image. Id guess that toning has continued as the holders are not air tight. Might want to put something to keep humidity in check at your storage location.

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your coin is still attractive. I had an Unc. Draped Bust Half Cent start to develop PVC after being in a holder for 8 years. Coin was purchased from a reputable source, and looked fine when I bought it. Was able to unload it for just over what I paid for it with help from one of the top drawer copper guys.

    To this day, I will not buy a pre 1815 Copper unless it is in an OGH, because if in an OGH, it's stable.

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  • bombtech25bombtech25 Posts: 209 ✭✭✭

    @pursuitofliberty said:
    Not sure I agree with the assessment above. It just does not look like dip residue to me. Maybe. I don't think I'm as experienced there as Tom.

    My first take ...

    Dipped and sat in an album, where it got some to the album at the rims and edges. Pulled from the album and slabbed, without any type of rinse (acetone or otherwise) ... and over time, in a slight loose holder (coin has rotated), the residue/particulate from the edges mixed with the atmosphere inside the holder to tone some of the surface area.

    It's a rare winner that would turn nicer in the holder, but I have had a couple similar experiences, even on coins I holdered, and so I know part of their backstories (ie sat in an album for a 5 to 10 years, and then after being slabbed the toning developed, or changed slightly and deepened a bit).

    My 2c

    EDIT to add ... my theory is this is this change is mostly due to temperature and humidity fluctuations in storage when the conditions above are present

    I can't dispute your theory but I will offer a potential alternate. The coin was dipped and did not erase all of the toning/contaminates. Only the most toned areas retained contaminates. They ripened over time. Either way, I like the end result better than the original.

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like dip residue from the color, likely it has been activated by some humidity and/or heat. Might be time for some new silica packs, I am guessing that the residue is on the entire surface and will continue into the center if allowed.

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  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All I will say is if you think it might be caused by dip residue you better keep a close watch on it as it will continue to react and will soon loose that nice look!

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,435 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I saw the title of this tread I was going to suggest tapping the corner of the slab on a hard surface until the coin turns back. :/

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  • Desert MoonDesert Moon Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    When I saw the title of this tread I was going to suggest tapping the corner of the slab on a hard surface until the coin turns back. :/

    I like the pun, and yes the coin does rotate freely and tapping can move it. Probably as pursuiteofliberty noted, it might be part of why it began to tone.......

    My online coin store - https://desertmoonnm.com/
  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Get that thing conserved ASAP.

    It'll only keep going.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • MizzouMizzou Posts: 529 ✭✭✭✭

    Appears to be natural, I have a few that have done the same over time and I think it looks great.

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  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,468 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2021 1:56PM

    It appears it could have happened because of exposure to the atmosphere over time. It likely will get worse as time goes on (coin preservation handbook).

    Additionally heat , salt air, and humidity can have an impact. If these kept in bank vault does the bank turn off the ac system during closed hours? A dealer in proofs told me years ago this can have impact in hot climate / high humidity areas.

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  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've dipped a lotta coins in my time (only one way to learn how to conserve a coin properly!), and I've seen plenty of them turn.

    That is textbook dip residue toning. Just my honest opinion.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DelawareDoons said:
    Get that thing conserved ASAP.

    It'll only keep going.

    That was my thinking.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,490 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2021 3:21PM

    When a coin turns, in the holder, from an improper rinse, it is usually splotchy and ugly. This coin looks somewhat attractive. However, I would be concerned about the rate at which it is toning, especially, if properly stored.

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  • Desert MoonDesert Moon Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Storage has been in a high humidity climate but in an enclosed area with Si Gel, but I just moved it to the new desert dry climate SH retirement town, maybe stabilize? I am thinking at a minimum to reholder as it is loose in the holder as noted and maybe not sealed up - hence the peripheral toning that is relatively uniform (?). Thanks for all of the comments and insights here, I have learned alot.

    Best, SH

    My online coin store - https://desertmoonnm.com/
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,827 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coins that are actively "moving" in terms of toning don't appeal to me much. There's no telling where it will go or what it will look like in another few years. I tend to unload these sorts of things.....

    But, if you really like the coin, I'd consider taking some action to keep it from progressing. Having it done through our host's conservation service would require some communication and some dollars. You risk getting it back with nothing done or having it dipped back to blast white. Neither would be great.

  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Freshly exposed metal after a dip tends to react more quickly with the atmosphere.

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