Coins Should Have Two Grades
Onastone
Posts: 4,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
I think this has been discussed before, and someone recently asked if you would consider a coin with one unattractive side, but thinking about it, shouldn't coins have two grades? They have two sides and they should each garner a grade. I've seen some coins with a rough obverse but gorgeous reverse. Wouldn't it be easier for graders to assign each side with it's own grade? Both sides could have the same grade, but one side may drag down the total grade. You could have a 70/70 or a 70/69. Maybe a 70/65.
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How about the market grade we use now and the "real" grade (technical grade? This could also be done for both sides.
By the way, old ANACS did what you suggest back during its photo certificate days.
If each side of the coin had a separate grade, can you imagine how thick the price guides like the Gray Sheet would have to be?
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
ANACS tried this but it didn't work. You might as well ask for a 100 point grading scale.
The two grades was done way back, I think ANACs pre-slabs
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I would rather see grading standards. Real, measurable, repeatable standards. Cheers, RickO
ANACS photo certs also rated strike,luster,, surface and eye appeal..
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Grade both sides? Maybe 🙃
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In theory, yes...... I agree.
In practice though......not a chance.
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I don't think that particular facet of ANACS failed to work.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If they majority of collectors wanted two sided grading - I think it would have become standard by now.
WS
A coin needs only one grade. The grade of the weakest side. The never ending push for more grades is nothing more than an attempt to pull more money from each and every coin. This is nothing new in the world of collectibles.
They should have three grades. One also for the edge. I think the whole concept of grading needs an overhaul but it probably won't happen in my lifetime. There has to be enough financial reason and push from enough influential people to make it happen.
Coins aren't typically graded solely by their weakest side, particularly when that side is the reverse. And I don't see that changing.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The current system works just fine, the grade is subjective, doubling that won't make it any better. Each individual can do whatever they want to evaluate the coin in their own way. 1 grade per coin is enough by a TPG.
The grade should reflect both sides and the rim, but just one overall grade that takes all 3 into account.
Mr_Spud
Agree. From my experience about 60% of the grade usually comes from the obverse side of the coin while 40% usually comes from the reverse side of the coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
In my long experience, dealers buy based on the weakest side. That should be the basis for the grade.
That hasn't been experience, at all. I think most knowledgeable collectors and dealers assign at least (approximately) 2/3 of the weight of the grade to the obverse. And I can't think of a single instance in which I saw a buyer grade a coin, based on the reverse being the weakest side.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A dealer will always POINT OUT the weakness when buying. But that same dealer will punish the coin more for obverse weakness than reverse weakness, in my experience.
And, isn't this a little besides the point? The assigned grade was the question not dealer pricing.
You have to remember that my experience, and most collector's experience, is in the world of the small local dealer or Sunday bourse dealer, not the big boys that attend the major shows.
The only real benefit of grading both side individually would be to the TPGs and crack out guys
Keep it standard.
Martin
In the end, grading is about pricing.
Understood - thanks.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes! I agree,
Circulated or Uncirculated. AI generated only.
Expert forum members here can barely agree on the grade of one side.
For Morgans, I'm thinking 90% of the observe dictated the grade, maybe because of their size. I have some where the reverse looks like a 66+ and if the obv was a 62/63, the most it would have gotten was a 63. Not sure why Morgan reverses were usually the better side. Might be different for other series.
When you say "always", you're wrong. And even if you say "almost always", you'd still probably be wrong. If for no other reason, that's because many dealers pass or buy, without saying anything at all.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I kind of agree but you need to change collectors to "majority of major dealers" because I don't think anyone cares what collectors want.
I have a toned 34-S Peace $ currently graded MS60 in an original PCGS small holder... the obverse is well struck but very baggy but the reverse is a solid 65 and mark free...
I'd love to get that coin into an MS 62 or 63 slab...
Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. I think since the beginning of PCGS and NGC, the obverse has been most if not all of the grade.
But it is interesting that one worse side will bring down the overall grade typically does not hold for lowballs. It is not uncommon to see a coin where one side is very obviously PO01 but the other side still has enough meat on it that the coin is graded FR02.
Reverse won't bring the grade up, but can bring it down?
Can you imagine the revenue possibility if they went to split grading? OMG! Never say never folks
That is fascinating that it was actually attempted. Makes sense, but as most everyone agrees here, impractical.
I thought of this, but thought it might be ridiculous, so didn't mention it. Does a poor edge bring down the grade? I suppose it would.
So the final grade is just an average of all sides? With higher points awarded toward obverse?
I'm glad there is only one grade, makes everything a bit more simplified.
It's supposed to, really. Rim nicks and hits. They don't count as much but they are negatives.
@Onastone said So the final grade is just an average of all sides? With higher points awarded toward obverse?
Exactly right
Mr_Spud
We have one!!!
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1015887/the-100-point-grading-scale-in-use-today
My thinking is coins are graded
Purely on the obverse. The reverse can only drag down the obverse grade if significant. I have many coins with amazing reverses that don’t lift up the obverse grade at all.
Although with the Buffalo nickel I think the reverse is almost as significant and should factor more in the total grade, as well as any series with a very important reverse
Like the Buffalos the Roosevelt’s, Franklins, Mercury dimes that are fully struck on the reverse are a greater part of the grade than many other series reverses too, but it’s still a mix of obverse, reverse and rim.
Mr_Spud
Coins with two grades would be pretty cool. JA could then sticker the obverse and/or reverse. If both sides are worthy of a gold sticker maybe the coin would get a platinum sticker on the obverse.
Platinum is cheaper than gold. Diamond sticker, maybe...
The answer is "Yes"
As has been mentioned, a key negative is the assurance that more subjectivity added to grading a coin will result in more controversy.
It would be nice though if a graded coin had a report card. One final grade awarded through points derived by an average of each side, luster, strike, marks... we do have one final grade now, just no report to go with it. Which leads grades to be more subjective and changeable depending who did the grading. Tom grades tougher than Jerry, unless he's in a good mood.
But each side is a part to the whole. Seems to make 0 sense to me having two grades.
There should be a grade for the fourth dimension as well, which is the alternate state of reality where the grade of the coin magically drops when you try to sell it back to a dealer
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