It is a terrific looking card and I agree. Unfortunately, I am no longer able to figure out how older cards are graded anymore. Maybe it is because I too, am now older.
Yes. So are Nolan Ryan, Rickey Henderson, and Cal Ripken. The HOF voters definitely have a tiered rule system. Will be fun to watch the David Ortiz and Alex Rodriguez portion of this story.
Oooh, shots fired! Somebody accusing Cal Ripken of using steroids.
I actually considered saying something that my belief is that there are already 10+ guys in the Hall that used but I refrained.
@mintonlypls said:
Here is a 1961 Mantle...don't know why it is only a PSA-7.5.
Let's start with a 9. Why not a 9 ?
Why not 8.5 ??
Why not an 8 ??
I'm serious. Looks like one of the best 1961's I have ever seen. Can't really imagine a 9 or 8.5 looks better.
A beauty I would be proud to own. I do see a print smudge of some sort about 2/3 of the way up on his jersey above the E in Mantle. Do not think that would keep it from an 8 but maybe from a 9. Might be something on the back. That card looks way better than most 8s for certain.
@countdouglas said:
I'm not going to speak for Craig44, but the problem I see is that there is so much hate for Bonds and Clemens, et al. Those that would equate PED usage with Dahmer are the ones that have the problem. Craig44 just likes to point out that fever that you have towards "those guys", while totally ignoring "these guys". Nowhere does he ever say Aaron is a bad guy. That's the leap you pearl clutchers make.
this is pretty much my sentiment exactly. so much disparagement for the modern guys and nothing but hero worship for the golden age guys. Do I care if hank aaron used PED, not really. likewise, It really doesn't matter to me that Mcgwire did either.
but I will tell you what, if someone is going to denigrate Bonds for his use, You better believe I am going to bring up mays, rose, mantle, Williams, schmidt and yes, henry aaron.
@countdouglas said:
I'm not going to speak for Craig44, but the problem I see is that there is so much hate for Bonds and Clemens, et al. Those that would equate PED usage with Dahmer are the ones that have the problem. Craig44 just likes to point out that fever that you have towards "those guys", while totally ignoring "these guys". Nowhere does he ever say Aaron is a bad guy. That's the leap you pearl clutchers make.
Dahmer was just attention getting....and it worked. I just noticed that Craig44 always goes straight to the greenies. ALWAYS. Do not pass go, do not collect $200; but straight to the Greenies.
I go straight to the "greenies" right after someone else goes straight to the steroids.
Not interested in a back and forth on this but there is obviously a difference between hitting a few greenies and injecting your body with designer juice to the point your head size changes.
@bobbybakeriv said:
I met him once at a show. He was a total DICK. JMO.
I met him at a Phillies game in 95 or 96 at The Vet. I was 9 or 10. The pen I had wasn't working for an autograph, and he wouldn't wait 15 seconds for my mom to get another from her purse. He walked away without a word. For this reason alone, I never collected his cards.
Main collecting focus is Patrick Roy playing days 85/86-02/03, expect 1/1, National/All-Star stamped cards.PC Completion: 2,548/2,952; 86.31% My Patrick Roy PC Website:https://proy33collector.weebly.com
@mintonlypls said:
Here is a 1961 Mantle...don't know why it is only a PSA-7.5.
Let's start with a 9. Why not a 9 ?
Why not 8.5 ??
Why not an 8 ??
I'm serious. Looks like one of the best 1961's I have ever seen. Can't really imagine a 9 or 8.5 looks better.
A beauty I would be proud to own. I do see a print smudge of some sort about 2/3 of the way up on his jersey above the E in Mantle. Do not think that would keep it from an 8 but maybe from a 9. Might be something on the back. That card looks way better than most 8s for certain.
Yes...it does have that print smudge but look at this PSA-8.5 w/worse print defect. I have thought about a review of my PSA-7.5. The card is problem free on back.
I met Hank Aaron at a sports card show in the early 1990's. He wasn't overly friendly, but he was polite to everyone. The Braves were playing in the World Series that evening in Atlanta, but he still showed up for the show in CT and signed for three hours straight.
Let me also say that he was average size (probably less than 6' tall and around 180 pounds), which makes his 755 HRs even more amazing. He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Bottom line, he was a special ballplayer and a special person who's name and reputation should not be besmirched here by someone who worships an unfunny fool like Jim Varney....
@MisterTim1962 said:
I met Hank Aaron at a sports card show in the early 1990's. He wasn't overly friendly, but he was polite to everyone. The Braves were playing in the World Series that evening in Atlanta, but he still showed up for the show in CT and signed for three hours straight.
Let me also say that he was average size (probably less than 6' tall and around 180 pounds), which makes his 755 HRs even more amazing. He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Bottom line, he was a special ballplayer and a special person who's name and reputation should not be besmirched here by someone who worships an unfunny fool like Jim Varney....
@MisterTim1962 said:
I met Hank Aaron at a sports card show in the early 1990's. He wasn't overly friendly, but he was polite to everyone. The Braves were playing in the World Series that evening in Atlanta, but he still showed up for the show in CT and signed for three hours straight.
Let me also say that he was average size (probably less than 6' tall and around 180 pounds), which makes his 755 HRs even more amazing. He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Bottom line, he was a special ballplayer and a special person who's name and reputation should not be besmirched here by someone who worships an unfunny fool like Jim Varney....
I believe Mr. Aaron "besmirched" his own name and reputation when he admitted use of PED. Conversely, why should we "besmirch" any other players' name or reputation because they used PED, just like henry admitted to? especially when they were not even against the rules until 2005?
if people are going to bark against Bonds, Mac etc for PED, I will be doing the exact same for the "heroes" of yesteryear who did the same thing.
Thought this was supposed to be about card valuations...
it should have ended with 1951 Wheaties citation of the graded population of the two 1961 cards and a footnote as to the timetable of the auction closing date.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@MisterTim1962 said:
I met Hank Aaron at a sports card show in the early 1990's. He wasn't overly friendly, but he was polite to everyone. The Braves were playing in the World Series that evening in Atlanta, but he still showed up for the show in CT and signed for three hours straight.
Let me also say that he was average size (probably less than 6' tall and around 180 pounds), which makes his 755 HRs even more amazing. He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Bottom line, he was a special ballplayer and a special person who's name and reputation should not be besmirched here by someone who worships an unfunny fool like Jim Varney....
I believe Mr. Aaron "besmirched" his own name and reputation when he admitted use of PED. Conversely, why should we "besmirch" any other players' name or reputation because they used PED, just like henry admitted to? especially when they were not even against the rules until 2005?
if people are going to bark against Bonds, Mac etc for PED, I will be doing the exact same for the "heroes" of yesteryear who did the same thing.
fair is fair right?
Hank Aaron took a Tylenol for a headache before a game against the Phillies in 1972, so we should ban him from the Hall for PED usage - obviously it helped his performance. According to our resident Aaron fan there is no proof that Bonds or Clemens did roids and can’t be proven so they should be in. What a world we live in when we have “experts” maligning Aaron as a drug user but Bonds and Clemens are clean. Keep dying on that hill - I think you will find a lot of support.🙄
@MisterTim1962 said:
He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Aaron hit 47 in 1971. Doesn't really change your point, which is 100% correct.
@MisterTim1962 said:
I met Hank Aaron at a sports card show in the early 1990's. He wasn't overly friendly, but he was polite to everyone. The Braves were playing in the World Series that evening in Atlanta, but he still showed up for the show in CT and signed for three hours straight.
Let me also say that he was average size (probably less than 6' tall and around 180 pounds), which makes his 755 HRs even more amazing. He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Bottom line, he was a special ballplayer and a special person who's name and reputation should not be besmirched here by someone who worships an unfunny fool like Jim Varney....
I believe Mr. Aaron "besmirched" his own name and reputation when he admitted use of PED. Conversely, why should we "besmirch" any other players' name or reputation because they used PED, just like henry admitted to? especially when they were not even against the rules until 2005?
if people are going to bark against Bonds, Mac etc for PED, I will be doing the exact same for the "heroes" of yesteryear who did the same thing.
fair is fair right?
Hank Aaron took a Tylenol for a headache before a game against the Phillies in 1972, so we should ban him from the Hall for PED usage - obviously it helped his performance. According to our resident Aaron fan there is no proof that Bonds or Clemens did roids and can’t be proven so they should be in. What a world we live in when we have “experts” maligning Aaron as a drug user but Bonds and Clemens are clean. Keep dying on that hill - I think you will find a lot of support.🙄
when did I say bonds was clean??
Amphetamines are a well known and very effective PED. If you dont know that by now, you've got your head in the sand.
there does seem to be quite a bit of hero worship going around though.
In the spirit of Thanksgiving and due to the fact that I know you all to be really good guys, I am calling this a message board draw! Good arguments and points made on both sides. Have a great day tomorrow and let this one die fellas. Just my two cents. Bobby
@MisterTim1962 said:
He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Aaron hit 47 in 1971.
Led the majors in slugging and OPS. Not bad for a 37 yr old.
@MisterTim1962 said:
He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Aaron hit 47 in 1971.
Led the majors in slugging and OPS. Not bad for a 37 yr old.
If I could draft one baseball player as a true #1 pick based on lifetime output, Willie Mays would be my first choice. Hank Aaron would be my second. Maybe I am dumb. Then Ted Williams? Or Babe Ruth? Take care every one. This message board is supposed to be fun. I have learned I ton from you guys over the years.
@MisterTim1962 said:
He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Aaron hit 47 in 1971.
Led the majors in slugging and OPS. Not bad for a 37 yr old.
The kind of thing that looks suspicious when done by other players at that age.
@MisterTim1962 said:
He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Aaron hit 47 in 1971.
Led the majors in slugging and OPS. Not bad for a 37 yr old.
The kind of thing that looks suspicious when done by other players at that age.
tread carefully, the hero worship is strong here. some people don't like to hear the truth...
@FirstBeard said:
If I could draft one baseball player as a true #1 pick based on lifetime output, Willie Mays would be my first choice. Hank Aaron would be my second. Maybe I am dumb. Then Ted Williams? Or Babe Ruth? Take care every one. This message board is supposed to be fun. I have learned I ton from you guys over the years.
Like it. Babe Ruth would be mine. Best ever at any sport, any position, anytime. Unbeleivable dominance. It'll never be done again IMHO.
@FirstBeard said:
If I could draft one baseball player as a true #1 pick based on lifetime output, Willie Mays would be my first choice. Hank Aaron would be my second. Maybe I am dumb. Then Ted Williams? Or Babe Ruth? Take care every one. This message board is supposed to be fun. I have learned I ton from you guys over the years.
Like it. Babe Ruth would be mine. Best ever at any sport, any position, anytime. Unbeleivable dominance. It'll never be done again IMHO.
@MisterTim1962 said:
He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Aaron hit 47 in 1971.
Led the majors in slugging and OPS. Not bad for a 37 yr old.
The kind of thing that looks suspicious when done by other players at that age.
tread carefully, the hero worship is strong here. some people don't like to hear the truth...
Not hero worship, just respect for the man's hard work and skills. When you hit 40 HRs in eight different seasons, there's nothing suspicious about hitting 40 HRs at that age.
The kind of thing that looks suspicious when done by other players at that age.
Like Bonds hitting 73 HRs at that age? Yup, THAT looks suspicious. Steroids! Steroids! Steroids!
@MisterTim1962 said:
Not hero worship, just respect for the man's hard work and skills. When you hit 40 HRs in eight different seasons, there's nothing suspicious about hitting 40 HRs at that age.
The kind of thing that looks suspicious when done by other players at that age.
Like Bonds hitting 73 HRs at that age? Yup, THAT looks suspicious. Steroids! Steroids! Steroids!
ummmm... you just made his point. until hank his 40 home runs at age 39, no one in baseball history had even come close at that age. the closest was 30. only 5 players had ever his as many as 25 home runs at that age.
then hank comes around. a guy who never had hit 50 before, and his season high came at age 37.
Hank probably took better care of himself than previous players. For example, Babe Ruth was a fat slob who ate too much and Mickey Mantle was a drunk and had too many injuries earlier in his career. Players back in the 1920's to 1960's smoked, drank and lived on burgers and steaks. Those bad traits will not only shorten your life, but it will age you faster than someone who had a healthy lifestyle.
Hank looked lean and mean his whole career, so he must have taken better care of himself than other players. Ever see the 1973 Topps card of Willie Mays? He looks to be around 50 years old! My guess is that Willie didn't have a healthy lifestyle and it caught up to him in the end. Just my take on the subject.
Another factor was the Braves moving to Atlanta in 1966. Hitter friendly park and warm weather. Milwaukee is cold as heck in April and September. Ever hit a baseball in the cold weather? Hurts like heck and the ball doesn't carry as far as in the warm weather. That move to Atlanta was a great deal for Aaron.
@MisterTim1962 said:
Hank probably took better care of himself than previous players. For example, Babe Ruth was a fat slob who ate too much and Mickey Mantle was a drunk and had too many injuries earlier in his career. Players back in the 1920's to 1960's smoked, drank and lived on burgers and steaks. Those bad traits will not only shorten your life, but it will age you faster than someone who had a healthy lifestyle.
Hank looked lean and mean his whole career, so he must have taken better care of himself than other players. Ever see the 1973 Topps card of Willie Mays? He looks to be around 50 years old! My guess is that Willie didn't have a healthy lifestyle and it caught up to him in the end. Just my take on the subject.
'Babe Ruth was a fat slob' is simply a disrespectful and incredibly ignorant comment.
Once again all professional athletes do something to keep competitive or gain an edge. I think Lebron is a perfect example. Look at his pics from 2003 until today. HUGE HUGE differences. Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum. Giannis. Way too much $$$ involved not to try to better yourself.
According to Bill Belichick, if you ain't cheating you ain't trying.
@MisterTim1962 said:
Another factor was the Braves moving to Atlanta in 1966. Hitter friendly park and warm weather. Milwaukee is cold as heck in April and September. Ever hit a baseball in the cold weather? Hurts like heck and the ball doesn't carry as far as in the warm weather. That move to Atlanta was a great deal for Aaron.
Excellent point and a big factor in helping him continue to hit 40 HR’s a year. Aaron never hit 50+ but man he was consistent hitting 37, 40, 44…. HR’s a year. That and his massive steroid usage 🤣
@MisterTim1962 said:
Hank probably took better care of himself than previous players. For example, Babe Ruth was a fat slob who ate too much and Mickey Mantle was a drunk and had too many injuries earlier in his career. Players back in the 1920's to 1960's smoked, drank and lived on burgers and steaks. Those bad traits will not only shorten your life, but it will age you faster than someone who had a healthy lifestyle.
Hank looked lean and mean his whole career, so he must have taken better care of himself than other players. Ever see the 1973 Topps card of Willie Mays? He looks to be around 50 years old! My guess is that Willie didn't have a healthy lifestyle and it caught up to him in the end. Just my take on the subject.
'Babe Ruth was a fat slob' is simply a disrespectful and incredibly ignorant comment.
As the saying goes, Ruth did it on hot dogs and beer lol.
As the saying goes, Ruth did it on hot dogs and beer lol.
Oh, I know. He was definitely not any sort of fitness prototype. However, he was not fat for most of his career and calling him a slob just doesn't sit well with me. He was an incredible athlete, very kind to the fans, and an extremely generous person. I would agree that he didn't take care of himself like many others but "fat slob" is not accurate.
He was a partier though and definitely known to imbibe. John Goodman was an absolutely horrible choice to play him in the movie. Babe Ruth was listed at 6'2" 215 (which I am sure is a bit light but not 300 lbs like Goodman - the uniforms of the day didn't help his look much either). Anyway, I think Ruth gets a bad rap when it comes to some things. I guess everything with him is exaggerated on some level.
Lebron James is on, and has been on, a custom variety of PEDs and new born baby blood for many years. This passes any eyeball test and is common sense. To top it all off, he is a sniveling jerk, a dirty player, and no fan base likes the guy.
Denial of use of HGH and anabolic steroids despite overwhelming evidence: they were clean!
Admission of minimal use of amphetamines: Undeserving of any accolades!
I think I understand the argument. Don’t think I agree with it.
if this is directed at me, I will respond. if not, disregard.
other than clemens, of who's case I am very very well versed, I have not said any other player was clean. I don't know any other cases nearly as well.
I also never said admission of minimal use of amphetamines means henry aaron was undeserving of any accolades.
my whole point is that modern players are dismissed for either having proof of use or suspicion of use with no proof, while golden age heroes are considered as pure as the driven snow, when many many many of them also used PED.
@MisterTim1962 said:
Hank probably took better care of himself than previous players. For example, Babe Ruth was a fat slob who ate too much and Mickey Mantle was a drunk and had too many injuries earlier in his career. Players back in the 1920's to 1960's smoked, drank and lived on burgers and steaks. Those bad traits will not only shorten your life, but it will age you faster than someone who had a healthy lifestyle.
Hank looked lean and mean his whole career, so he must have taken better care of himself than other players. Ever see the 1973 Topps card of Willie Mays? He looks to be around 50 years old! My guess is that Willie didn't have a healthy lifestyle and it caught up to him in the end. Just my take on the subject.
sure, it is possible. its also possible Hank only used PED just that one time...
of all the home run hitters before, Killebrew, Mays, Robinson, Ruth, Williams, Ott, and many more, hank went out and demolished the age 39+ single season home run record because he took good care of himself? better than anyone else before? to the point that he demolished a 100 year old record by 33%
not because of PED or anything else, but that he took better care of himself than any other slugger in the history of MLB?
remember, he didn't break the record by 1 or 2, but he hit a full 33% more.
that would have been like Maris breaking truths record by hitting 80 homeruns in 1961. or someone today breaking Bonds hr record by hitting 97 Homers.
seems as though Henry may have needed more than a healthy lifestyle to hit that many home runs at that age.
'Babe Ruth was a fat slob' is simply a disrespectful and incredibly ignorant comment.
Sorry, but he was not athletic looking. He was listed as 6'2" and 215 pounds. That was probably being kind, so figure his real weight was 225. Either weight puts him in the overweight category. His maximum healthy weight should have been 194, so he was at least 21 pounds overweight and most likely 31 pounds overweight, which is fat.
'Babe Ruth was a fat slob' is simply a disrespectful and incredibly ignorant comment.
Sorry, but he was not athletic looking. He was listed as 6'2" and 215 pounds. That was probably being kind, so figure his real weight was 225. Either weight puts him in the overweight category. His maximum healthy weight should have been 194, so he was at least 21 pounds overweight and most likely 31 pounds overweight, which is fat.
Understood. He was certainly not in shape but teammates of the day have repeatedly said he was not fat and an absolutely great athlete (e.g., Waite Hoyt, Bill Dickey, Lefty Gomez). He batted .342 lifetime, was a fantastic pitcher, and scratch golfer. I think we are all just used to seeing pictures of him when he was older and subsequent caricatures depicting him. I can still live with 'fat' but 'slob' just seems a bit much for me. No worries though. It is not the main gist of this discussion anyhow. Good luck collecting!
"Never let the fear of striking out get in your way." Babe Ruth
I can still live with 'fat' but 'slob' just seems a bit much for me. No worries though. It is not the main gist of this discussion anyhow. Good luck collecting!
You're right, that was wrong on my part. I do apologize for that off the cuff comment. I probably have some inner resentment to the Babe because I'm a Red Sox fan! ! Lol!
@FirstBeard said:
If I could draft one baseball player as a true #1 pick based on lifetime output, Willie Mays would be my first choice. Hank Aaron would be my second. Maybe I am dumb. Then Ted Williams? Or Babe Ruth? Take care every one. This message board is supposed to be fun. I have learned I ton from you guys over the years.
Like it. Babe Ruth would be mine. Best ever at any sport, any position, anytime. Unbeleivable dominance. It'll never be done again IMHO.
He's the only pro athlete whose name is an actually accepted/unders> @craig44 said:
@FirstBeard said:
If I could draft one baseball player as a true #1 pick based on lifetime output, Willie Mays would be my first choice. Hank Aaron would be my second. Maybe I am dumb. Then Ted Williams? Or Babe Ruth? Take care every one. This message board is supposed to be fun. I have learned I ton from you guys over the years.
Like it. Babe Ruth would be mine. Best ever at any sport, any position, anytime. Unbeleivable dominance. It'll never be done again IMHO.
and a great pitcher
He's the only pro athlete whose name is an actually accepted/understood adjective! No one says 'Jordanian' or even 'Gretzskyian' which is crazy to me. LeBronian!!!! LOL If Babe Ruth played today, he'd get 75M per, easy. And he would be in every other commercial on TV. And he would most certainly NOT be a whining lil B.... like LeBron.
Ruth was born an impoverished, destitute orphan who did five insanely incomparable things subsequently: 1) enjoyed life, 2) became the most legendary athlete EVER - 10 times 10 over, and 3,4,5 ) GAVE back, GAVE back, GAVE back. More than most realize, Babe Ruth was tremendously nice to fans, abundantly generous, and especially kind to children. LeBron couldn't carry his jock for one foot. Shaq,? Probably ten.or so I have researched a ton about and read even more about GHR, and I honestly admit he mesmorizes me. If anything, if you actually read about and/or research the Babe, he is most likely underrated. NO ONE has ever come CLOSE to dominating his or her sport accordingly. Fat or not. And, FWIW, Ruth was extremely ahead of his time when it came to appreciating the so-called Negro Leagues. Research that.
@GreenSneakers said:
If late career performance infers Aaron did something nefarious, why does the same not apply to Clemens?
because Henry Aaron is an admitted PED user. we don't need to infer for hank, he told us he used.
I’m not a baseball guy and don’t have a dog in this fight but Aaron only admitted to using PEDs once (as far as I’m aware) so aren’t you are doing as much inferring as those who suggest Clemens’ late career performance was dependent on PEDs?
Comments
Let's start with a 9. Why not a 9 ?
Why not 8.5 ??
Why not an 8 ??
I'm serious. Looks like one of the best 1961's I have ever seen. Can't really imagine a 9 or 8.5 looks better.
It is a terrific looking card and I agree. Unfortunately, I am no longer able to figure out how older cards are graded anymore. Maybe it is because I too, am now older.
Oooh, shots fired! Somebody accusing Cal Ripken of using steroids.
I actually considered saying something that my belief is that there are already 10+ guys in the Hall that used but I refrained.
A beauty I would be proud to own. I do see a print smudge of some sort about 2/3 of the way up on his jersey above the E in Mantle. Do not think that would keep it from an 8 but maybe from a 9. Might be something on the back. That card looks way better than most 8s for certain.
@brad31 Here is a better image. It looks like both right corners may have a touch of wear. But if it’s a 7.5, it is certainly the best one ever!
this is pretty much my sentiment exactly. so much disparagement for the modern guys and nothing but hero worship for the golden age guys. Do I care if hank aaron used PED, not really. likewise, It really doesn't matter to me that Mcgwire did either.
but I will tell you what, if someone is going to denigrate Bonds for his use, You better believe I am going to bring up mays, rose, mantle, Williams, schmidt and yes, henry aaron.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I go straight to the "greenies" right after someone else goes straight to the steroids.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Not interested in a back and forth on this but there is obviously a difference between hitting a few greenies and injecting your body with designer juice to the point your head size changes.
I met him at a Phillies game in 95 or 96 at The Vet. I was 9 or 10. The pen I had wasn't working for an autograph, and he wouldn't wait 15 seconds for my mom to get another from her purse. He walked away without a word. For this reason alone, I never collected his cards.
Main collecting focus is Patrick Roy playing days 85/86-02/03, expect 1/1, National/All-Star stamped cards.PC Completion: 2,548/2,952; 86.31% My Patrick Roy PC Website:https://proy33collector.weebly.com
Yes> @brad31 said:
Yes...it does have that print smudge but look at this PSA-8.5 w/worse print defect. I have thought about a review of my PSA-7.5. The card is problem free on back.
I met Hank Aaron at a sports card show in the early 1990's. He wasn't overly friendly, but he was polite to everyone. The Braves were playing in the World Series that evening in Atlanta, but he still showed up for the show in CT and signed for three hours straight.
Let me also say that he was average size (probably less than 6' tall and around 180 pounds), which makes his 755 HRs even more amazing. He never had any freakish seasons (like Bonds) and never hit more than 45 HRs in a season. He set the record by grinding it out for 23 seasons.
Bottom line, he was a special ballplayer and a special person who's name and reputation should not be besmirched here by someone who worships an unfunny fool like Jim Varney....
Aaron was far from a saint.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
I believe Mr. Aaron "besmirched" his own name and reputation when he admitted use of PED. Conversely, why should we "besmirch" any other players' name or reputation because they used PED, just like henry admitted to? especially when they were not even against the rules until 2005?
if people are going to bark against Bonds, Mac etc for PED, I will be doing the exact same for the "heroes" of yesteryear who did the same thing.
fair is fair right?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Thought this was supposed to be about card valuations...
it should have ended with 1951 Wheaties citation of the graded population of the two 1961 cards and a footnote as to the timetable of the auction closing date.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Hank Aaron took a Tylenol for a headache before a game against the Phillies in 1972, so we should ban him from the Hall for PED usage - obviously it helped his performance. According to our resident Aaron fan there is no proof that Bonds or Clemens did roids and can’t be proven so they should be in. What a world we live in when we have “experts” maligning Aaron as a drug user but Bonds and Clemens are clean. Keep dying on that hill - I think you will find a lot of support.🙄
@mintonlypls can you post a back scan of that Mantle?
Here is the back of the 1961 Mantle...
Aaron hit 47 in 1971. Doesn't really change your point, which is 100% correct.
when did I say bonds was clean??
Amphetamines are a well known and very effective PED. If you dont know that by now, you've got your head in the sand.
there does seem to be quite a bit of hero worship going around though.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
In the spirit of Thanksgiving and due to the fact that I know you all to be really good guys, I am calling this a message board draw! Good arguments and points made on both sides. Have a great day tomorrow and let this one die fellas. Just my two cents. Bobby
Led the majors in slugging and OPS. Not bad for a 37 yr old.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Ahh, Bonds did too.
If I could draft one baseball player as a true #1 pick based on lifetime output, Willie Mays would be my first choice. Hank Aaron would be my second. Maybe I am dumb. Then Ted Williams? Or Babe Ruth? Take care every one. This message board is supposed to be fun. I have learned I ton from you guys over the years.
The kind of thing that looks suspicious when done by other players at that age.
tread carefully, the hero worship is strong here. some people don't like to hear the truth...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Like it. Babe Ruth would be mine. Best ever at any sport, any position, anytime. Unbeleivable dominance. It'll never be done again IMHO.
and a great pitcher
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Exactly. And he hit 40 homers at age 39.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Not hero worship, just respect for the man's hard work and skills. When you hit 40 HRs in eight different seasons, there's nothing suspicious about hitting 40 HRs at that age.
Like Bonds hitting 73 HRs at that age? Yup, THAT looks suspicious. Steroids! Steroids! Steroids!
ummmm... you just made his point. until hank his 40 home runs at age 39, no one in baseball history had even come close at that age. the closest was 30. only 5 players had ever his as many as 25 home runs at that age.
then hank comes around. a guy who never had hit 50 before, and his season high came at age 37.
suspicious yet?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Hank probably took better care of himself than previous players. For example, Babe Ruth was a fat slob who ate too much and Mickey Mantle was a drunk and had too many injuries earlier in his career. Players back in the 1920's to 1960's smoked, drank and lived on burgers and steaks. Those bad traits will not only shorten your life, but it will age you faster than someone who had a healthy lifestyle.
Hank looked lean and mean his whole career, so he must have taken better care of himself than other players. Ever see the 1973 Topps card of Willie Mays? He looks to be around 50 years old! My guess is that Willie didn't have a healthy lifestyle and it caught up to him in the end. Just my take on the subject.
Another factor was the Braves moving to Atlanta in 1966. Hitter friendly park and warm weather. Milwaukee is cold as heck in April and September. Ever hit a baseball in the cold weather? Hurts like heck and the ball doesn't carry as far as in the warm weather. That move to Atlanta was a great deal for Aaron.
'Babe Ruth was a fat slob' is simply a disrespectful and incredibly ignorant comment.
Once again all professional athletes do something to keep competitive or gain an edge. I think Lebron is a perfect example. Look at his pics from 2003 until today. HUGE HUGE differences. Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum. Giannis. Way too much $$$ involved not to try to better yourself.
According to Bill Belichick, if you ain't cheating you ain't trying.
Excellent point and a big factor in helping him continue to hit 40 HR’s a year. Aaron never hit 50+ but man he was consistent hitting 37, 40, 44…. HR’s a year. That and his massive steroid usage 🤣
As the saying goes, Ruth did it on hot dogs and beer lol.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Oh, I know. He was definitely not any sort of fitness prototype.
However, he was not fat for most of his career and calling him a slob just doesn't sit well with me. He was an incredible athlete, very kind to the fans, and an extremely generous person. I would agree that he didn't take care of himself like many others but "fat slob" is not accurate.
He was a partier though and definitely known to imbibe. John Goodman was an absolutely horrible choice to play him in the movie. Babe Ruth was listed at 6'2" 215 (which I am sure is a bit light but not 300 lbs like Goodman - the uniforms of the day didn't help his look much either). Anyway, I think Ruth gets a bad rap when it comes to some things. I guess everything with him is exaggerated on some level.
Lebron James is on, and has been on, a custom variety of PEDs and new born baby blood for many years. This passes any eyeball test and is common sense. To top it all off, he is a sniveling jerk, a dirty player, and no fan base likes the guy.
I think I understand the argument. Don’t think I agree with it.
This is about as close as possible to being accurate for some in this post.
if this is directed at me, I will respond. if not, disregard.
other than clemens, of who's case I am very very well versed, I have not said any other player was clean. I don't know any other cases nearly as well.
I also never said admission of minimal use of amphetamines means henry aaron was undeserving of any accolades.
my whole point is that modern players are dismissed for either having proof of use or suspicion of use with no proof, while golden age heroes are considered as pure as the driven snow, when many many many of them also used PED.
including hank
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
sure, it is possible. its also possible Hank only used PED just that one time...
of all the home run hitters before, Killebrew, Mays, Robinson, Ruth, Williams, Ott, and many more, hank went out and demolished the age 39+ single season home run record because he took good care of himself? better than anyone else before? to the point that he demolished a 100 year old record by 33%
not because of PED or anything else, but that he took better care of himself than any other slugger in the history of MLB?
remember, he didn't break the record by 1 or 2, but he hit a full 33% more.
that would have been like Maris breaking truths record by hitting 80 homeruns in 1961. or someone today breaking Bonds hr record by hitting 97 Homers.
seems as though Henry may have needed more than a healthy lifestyle to hit that many home runs at that age.
it was literally unprecedented.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Sorry, but he was not athletic looking. He was listed as 6'2" and 215 pounds. That was probably being kind, so figure his real weight was 225. Either weight puts him in the overweight category. His maximum healthy weight should have been 194, so he was at least 21 pounds overweight and most likely 31 pounds overweight, which is fat.
"Never let the fear of striking out get in your way." Babe Ruth
If late career performance infers Aaron did something nefarious, why does the same not apply to Clemens?
because Henry Aaron is an admitted PED user. we don't need to infer for hank, he told us he used.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Mr. Aaron always did have nice looking teeth in his pictures 🤷♂️
How much did it sale for is one of the funniest and most ignorant things I've ever heard.
You're right, that was wrong on my part. I do apologize for that off the cuff comment. I probably have some inner resentment to the Babe because I'm a Red Sox fan! ! Lol!
He's the only pro athlete whose name is an actually accepted/unders> @craig44 said:
He's the only pro athlete whose name is an actually accepted/understood adjective! No one says 'Jordanian' or even 'Gretzskyian' which is crazy to me. LeBronian!!!! LOL If Babe Ruth played today, he'd get 75M per, easy. And he would be in every other commercial on TV. And he would most certainly NOT be a whining lil B.... like LeBron.
Ruth was born an impoverished, destitute orphan who did five insanely incomparable things subsequently: 1) enjoyed life, 2) became the most legendary athlete EVER - 10 times 10 over, and 3,4,5 ) GAVE back, GAVE back, GAVE back. More than most realize, Babe Ruth was tremendously nice to fans, abundantly generous, and especially kind to children. LeBron couldn't carry his jock for one foot. Shaq,? Probably ten.or so
I have researched a ton about and read even more about GHR, and I honestly admit he mesmorizes me. If anything, if you actually read about and/or research the Babe, he is most likely underrated. NO ONE has ever come CLOSE to dominating his or her sport accordingly. Fat or not. And, FWIW, Ruth was extremely ahead of his time when it came to appreciating the so-called Negro Leagues. Research that.
I’m not a baseball guy and don’t have a dog in this fight but Aaron only admitted to using PEDs once (as far as I’m aware) so aren’t you are doing as much inferring as those who suggest Clemens’ late career performance was dependent on PEDs?