Thoughts on this IHC, die crack? Lamination? Retained cud

ad4400

Trying to figure out what is going on here. Also seems to misalign the dentils. Generally I find these features bring a coolness element but on this one I’m wondering if if boarders on damage.

bsshog40

I'm thinking more of a possible strike thru.

privatecoin

Interesting how the dentist don't line up.

yosclimber

It's a retained cud.
That piece of the die has broken off from the rest, which is why the dentils are offset.

What is the date of the coin?
It may be a known die state.

Some folks collect cuds with a passion, and this has some good value. Not damage at all.

Many example photos here:
http://cuds-on-coins.com/indian-head-cent-rcd/

[Deleted User]

Definitely retained cud, as mentioned above. You can practically see where the cud piece has begun to shift out of place.

A fun coin to study, and while some collectors may find it distracting, it's not even in the same realm as PMD.

Walkerguy21D

Retained cud was my first thought as well.
Please post the full obverse when you get a chance.

privatecoin

@privatecoin said:
Interesting how the dentist don't line up.

Damn auto correct....

Picker1954

What is the date of the Indian?

ricko

Very interesting coin... I agree with the diagnosis above.... Would like to see full pictures of obverse and reverse. Cheers, RickO

OnWithTheHunt

Also in the retained cud camp.

ad4400

Here is the Trueview of the entire coin. Thanks yosclimber for the link! 1C-1863-03r and 13R look to be the closest, but not exact matches.

ad4400

Thanks for the tip Yosclimber. I submitted the images to the site and my coin is now listed and recognized as pre-Cud PC-1C-1863-16R

Steven59

@ad4400 said:
[Thanks for the tip Yosclimber. I submitted the images to the site and my coin is now listed and recognized as pre-Cud PC-1C-1863-16R]

They changed/updated the "Retained Cud" designation to "Pre Cud"

ThePennyLady

1863 had quite a few die cracks/cuds/shattered dies. Here are some examples

CaptHenway

@Steven59 said:

@ad4400 said:
[Thanks for the tip Yosclimber. I submitted the images to the site and my coin is now listed and recognized as pre-Cud PC-1C-1863-16R]

They changed/updated the "Retained Cud" designation to "Pre Cud"

When did the definitions change? 40 years ago at ANACS I would have written this up as a Retained Cud because there was displacement at the denticle.

Steven59

@CaptHenway said:

@Steven59 said:

@ad4400 said:
[Thanks for the tip Yosclimber. I submitted the images to the site and my coin is now listed and recognized as pre-Cud PC-1C-1863-16R]

They changed/updated the "Retained Cud" designation to "Pre Cud"

When did the definitions change? 40 years ago at ANACS I would have written this up as a Retained Cud because there was displacement at the denticle.

I remember that being talked about a few years ago.
From "Cuds On Coins" website: http://cuds-on-coins.com/pre-cuds-on-u-s-coins-2/

Pre Cuds on U.S. Coins
A “Pre Cud” is a precursor to most collectible of all die break errors called a Cud. The Pre Cud starts out as a Rim to Rim Die Crack. When the die break starts to show lateral spread and horizontal offset it now becomes a Retained Cud. If the break separates from the die the result is a fully-fledged Cud.

But then the OPs coin was designated as Pre Cud - so who knows exactly?

CaptHenway

Thanks.
I see that several of us called it a "Retained Cud," so obviously the change in terminology has not been universally accepted.
TD