What grade would you give this gold coin?
Herb_T
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I am sending it in to PCGS and before I do I thought I would see what the eyes on the forum think it will grade at……
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I grade it unworthy of slabbing. It's a little hard to read the surfaces in the photo, but with all that stuff around the portrait I'm thinking MS60/61.
Sorry, but the ROI just isn't there. This is a common coin, and the realized price at sale won't go up much beyond the usual double eagle premium to melt value until you get in the MS63 range. There's no chance this coin manages that.
Ultra common $20, that cheek makes it ungradeable without losing money.
Agree. There is way too much going on with this coin as far as marks, scratches and abrasions to get a grade worth covering the cost of grading.
AU58 (possibly as high as MS61), and as others have already said, not worth getting graded.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
MS60
With all those scuffs, marks, and abrasions especially on the face, it's an AU58 or possibly a low end MS. Agree with those that say it's not worth the expense of getting it slabbed. It's essentially a bullion coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
60 maybe. Agree with those who said it is not worth slabbing.
61
Hard to tell if there is wear or not, but if the luster is as good as it looks, it could get as high as MS61.
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Id say 60-61. As everyone else says, probably not a good ROI for grading.
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MS61...
61
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
The most common date of Lib $20. Max at 62. You can buy them already slabbed for less money.
It’s a really nice blazer and reflects its fascinating history in bank bags. These coins minted for commerce. Can’t really tell but looks baggy obv from photo. Rev fantastic BU. MS61 my wager. Super cartwheel luster. Not some spotted tarnished trash piece.
Send it in - I recommend you get it graded considering it’s value. Then you know what our hosts think on grade and there is no question (potential buyers) to authenticity. Plus it’s in PCGS holder. Reverse looks nice. If getting close to melt would stack these all day long. I would just add the grading cost to its original cost then markup accordingly. With its super luster it will sell. If not sit on it and bank when gold goes up. Sell it just at melt? Lol - heck no, blazer like that there is somebody in bourse room who will pay at least a few bucks over BV for blazer like that.
Send it in. One thing I have learned in my semi early coin collecting career is a lot of the people in this forum are dealers or flippers and only consider profit and valve. That's a really cool coin that 99% of the population would be WOW'd by. But because its a common coin or has marks on it, its just worth the price in gold.
Honestly, this is what has kind of turned me off from coin collecting a bit. Its not about the historic stories the coin may have, or how cool it is to hold a coin that's old. Its all about the mintages, grades, registry points ETC...
If you like the coin and enjoy the experience of sending a coin in to get it slabbed and receive a grade, go for it. Sometimes it isn't all about the money. Remember people, for a lot of collectors this is a hobby, not a business.
Send it in, no need to worry then on the chance someone pushes its counterfeit later.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
MS60. Not worth slabbing. Little more than a very common date hunk of bullion.
Piling on here, but it's a bullion coin.
61, maybe 62 on a Friday afternoon.
Doesn't really matter. It's worth the same as a 55......
I’m a dealer, in practice. But I’m a collector, at heart and don’t always consider profit and value.
The coin is worth more than melt value, graded or ungraded. But if, due to low demand, it weren’t, why would that turn you off? The coin could still be appreciated for its age, history and appearance. The coin would be just as cool to hold, without getting it graded. In fact, I think it would be even more cool to hold, ungraded. Just because people suggested not getting the coin graded, doesn’t mean they’ve forgotten that this is a hobby.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, the coin has chatter in the fields and on the devices... but nice luster. Likely grade at MS61.... A slab gives it authenticity and protection. Your choice... If you submit, let us know the results. Cheers, RickO
How much would it cost to get this coin slabbed by PCGS including round trip insured shipping?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
My initial thoughts on grade were anywhere from AU55 to MS61. I can't tell what's going on with Liberty's cheek (rub vs excessive contact marks) without having the coin in-hand. As far as slabbing goes... personally, I wouldn't... at least part of my collection is housed in a Dansco Album and this coin, IMHO, would be a good album coin. That said, I also see value in having gold coins authenticated. When it comes time to sell (and we will all get THAT old at some point) it's a lot easier to liquidate coins in slabs in our virtual world. I guess it comes down to how you like to present your collection... if you do send it out, please let us know the outcome. Best, Leo
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60
Mr_Spud
Good question! It looks like Regular submission (coin value <$2500) through PCGS is $38... plus $10 handling fee... plus $28 shipping (minimum)... so, around $76 to get this coin into plastic, maybe more depending on submission type.
https://www.pcgs.com/servicesandfees
edited to add: and you still have to calculate in the shipping/handling/insurance to get it to PCGS...
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So, it's going to cost about $100 to get it slabbed unless you can save some on shipping by including it in a larger submission package. I don't think the cost of slabbing it will add enough value to this coin to justify the expense.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
MS61
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Exactly... that's about 5% of the value of the coin... assuming generic $20 Libs are going for ~$2k... give or take...
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What if the graders find a patch of hairline scratches and assign a details grade with "CLEANED" on the label? Would the coin then be worth less than if it were left raw? Hypothetical question being asked for academic reasons.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall yes, and that's how it will come back IMO. This coin is a slider AU with obverse hairlines and that's based on what I CAN see. It might be worse in hand.
No offense to the OP intended; it's your coin and you can send it in regardless of what anyone here thinks or says... but in the opinion of this nearly 40 year dealer it's a waste of time and money. Unless this coin has some sort of sentimental value, if you want a nice example of the type I'd consider liquidating this piece and applying the proceeds towards a coin that is nice for the grade. This date comes nice and a much cleaner example can be had for not much more money.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
The coin is going in with 5 others in the submission, but in the box going to PCGS there is a total of 5 different submissions going in. Lots of coins…..
I don't know what you have for the rest of the submission, but over the years I've learned to sell this sort of stuff to be able to afford coins that are actually rare. If you can buy a replacement in similar condition, at any time, from any bullion dealer, in any quantity, it is not rare. Collecting bullion with a bit of historical interest is fine, but you might enjoy it less once it's locked up in a plastic tomb. You'll certainly enjoy it less if it comes back in a problem holder.
I would not send that in. You could probably sell if for $1770 or so today. Then take the money and $500 bucks and buy a nice graded one one if that it your aim..
Currently, he should be able to get a minimum of $1850 wholesale.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Unfortunately I think those hairlines will result in a cleaned no grade. I just got one myself from a coin with less than that one... You can opt for no holder genuine and they won’t holder it if cleaned.
I don’t have the coin in my hands yet as I just got the grades today from PCGS, but the 1904 above graded MS63. When I get the coins back I will post this coin and the 1900 I sent in, both graded MS63. FYI
Congrats - I’m surprised because it looks to me like there are hairlines all over the obverse and on the cheek - I sent in the same coin (different date) with fewer hairlines than yours and it came back cleaned - so yours is apparently better - but goes to show it is hard to tell from photos.
Congrats!
Heh heh, I like how this story turned out.
A win for the OP 👍
Score! I'm glad it turned out well for you!
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Great result. That coin does have nice luster and the fields are surprisingly clean compared to the cheek. Not sure why such a large discrepancy between the AU58/MS61 GTG results, and the official MS63 result, but theorizing here that maybe what everyone above was seeing is luster breaks on the cheek being magnified by the camera angle (although it certainly looks like the photo was taken straight on)? Please post the cert number when issued and some new photos when you get the coin back.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
nice (I was thinking AU58 and do not know where I can get a slabbed double eagle for $100)
... sometimes the TruViews post before you have the coin in hand, maybe post them?
I don’t think the photo did it any justice. I thought it hand it looked really good, but who knows. I haven’t been looking at coins that long so who knows, but I will take it.
As soon as they are available for sure.
There's a reason why it's not in a slab. Common date with too much chatter.
I am not against getting this piece graded. It will show that it is genuine, which is very important. I got stuck with a counterfeit 1904 double eagle when I was in my 20s. Fortunately the price of gold went up and I was able to get my money back on it for scrap. My slab grade would be MS-62
MS63 huh? Good for you. That grade should just about cover the grading fees. Must look a bit better than in the initial photos.
I have looked at a fairly large number of coin photos online, and I sometimes ask what equipment was used to take photos. My recollection is that a scanner (Cannon specifically) will give gold that glow.
Scanner photos are not the same as photos from a DSLR camera, so maybe this is a scanner photo and the very bright light bar transiting the scanner bed over accentuated the luster breaks??
Just a guess.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
My (first ) guess is (was) MS 63 , but am always late to the party. Oh, and (it looks) dipped, too (to me). And I like $20 Gold Liberty coins in general.
I would pay the money to get it graded (sch c exp) and would want know what our hosts grade it at. That way it’s in a PCGS holder, authentic, fits well with my other material whether show or online, plus the buyer has the TPG assurance of grade and not fake. In addition I can put it in my PCGS inventory app along w photo and track value along with my other Pcgs material.
my first thought was 62, then as i looked further, 61/60. glad to hear you got 63. it's hard to grade by photos.
Sorry, photo taken with a Canon 5dMkIV with 3 LED lights around the coin…..
Uh, coin values on PCGS at $2600. Grading fees were $65, bought it for $1950. Seems like I made better than just the grading fees.